neat freaks

[Topaz]

The people I know who are most "neat freaky" are ESTj and ESFj.

Some people are as a result of upbringing rather than type. Or partially upbringing and partially type. But as far as natural need to have their spaces very very neat, ESxj.

If you subtract my father and just a few other guys I know then I totally agree.

I know an ESFj guy who isn't a neat freak by any means, but I think it's because he's a guy... not that it should matter, but I think in his mind it does.

When I visited Peter's parents over Christmas his dad told me about how Peter kept his room really neat and clean from the time he was a little kid forward.

If neatness is type related, its only slightly. Ive known neat and sloppy people of just about every type. Ive even known sloppy ISTJs. Ive known very neat INFPs and INFJs and Ive known even a few somewhat tidy ENFPs. Im would say Im fairly neat (esp when guest are coming) but not overly so.

[Jonathan]

If ESIs were neat freaks they wouldn't be the duals of LIEs. Not that LIEs are inherently messy, but there is some lack of awareness.

Wanting neatness doesn't necessarily mean someone isn't the dual or activity partner of someone who is messy. The issue is whether people are able to help each other in a way that works for them both.

For example, if we step back from the issue of neatness, and just talk about and , well then we know that ESIs are big on those, and LIEs are relatively weak in those areas, but that doesn't necessarily lead to conflict, because LIEs value being helped in those areas.

[Jonathan]

If ESIs were neat freaks they wouldn't be the duals of LIEs. Not that LIEs are inherently messy, but there is some lack of awareness.

Wanting neatness doesn't necessarily mean someone isn't the dual or activity partner of someone who is messy. The issue is whether people are able to help each other in a way that works for them both.

For example, if we step back from the issue of neatness, and just talk about and , well then we know that ESIs are big on those, and LIEs are relatively weak in those areas, but that doesn't necessarily lead to conflict, because LIEs value being helped in those areas.

I didn't mean that ESIs don't want neatness, just that as a general rule they're probably not going to get too worked up about it.

I think that's because they know they're good at straightening things up, and, being F types, they're fairly diplomatic about it usually.

...which leads to the question...who does get most worked up about it? Perhaps it's not really type-related to get worked up over anything. Getting worked up over something suggests some level dysfunction, so no healthy type would actually necessarily be that way.

[Creepy-bg]

I've seen ESTj's throw hissy fits over messes, gag over dirty dishes, etc... Just generally freak out over any sort of disorder. It's not a constant thing I think but they deffinately have that tendency in them

[Joy]

ESTj: How can you just sit there when there are dishes in the sink?
me: What's the difference if they get done now or later?
ESTj:

[snegledmaca]

I don't think *SE-s are neat freaks as much as health aware. My mother is always cleaning and tidying up because it's unhygienic not because she has an irrational need for order or some such thing. She'd happily give the job away to a maid if she could (Also she often bitches about how she always has to clean up after us and so on, meaning, chores are as much a burden to her as to anybody else).

[jessica129]

Lifes too short to worry about it. My room is a disaster area. I'll be okay with it for awhile then for some reason get very irritated and clean obsessively. Then its messy within an hour. Why bother.

[Gilly]

Lifes too short to worry about it. My room is a disaster area. I'll be okay with it for awhile then for some reason get very irritated and clean obsessively. Then its messy within an hour. Why bother.

That's exactly how I am. My neat streaks tend to coincide with my fitness binges, schoolwork-doing tears, and healthy eating crusades These "decent human being" periods usually last about a week or so, after which I disintegrate into myself again

[implied]

I am really messy Sad However I can stand my own messiness better than other people's messiness. It is a controlled mess I make Smile. Sometimes we have guests over night who are really messy and it seems to bug me a bit as they make a mess in the wrong way. You could say I kind of expect other people to be less messy than me in order to balance me. If I meet someone who is more messy than me I sort of start to act the opposite I usually do to counter all that chaos and can't be my messy self.

i can definitely relate with this.

[UDP]

The people I know who are most "neat freaky" are ESTj and ESFj.

Some people are as a result of upbringing rather than type. Or partially upbringing and partially type. But as far as natural need to have their spaces very very neat, ESxj.

No problem for me

[Exodus]

Yeah, INxjs have a not-so-secret need to be in a very smoothly running and clean environment. Otherwise functioning becomes far more difficult.

[Joy]

Yeah, INxjs have a not-so-secret need to be in a very smoothly running and clean environment. Otherwise functioning becomes far more difficult.

Yes, this is one of the things that makes an ENTj/INTj relationship really shitty.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[flower]

Dont forget the INTj's and the ISTj's, they can be pretty bothered about mess too, and the ISTj's will be glad to tell you how horrendous and lazy you are for letting you place get so bad

[TangoxOfxSin]

I am generally a neat person within public domain, but once it comes to my room, it's totally mood related. I tend to go on clean up and organizing spurts, liking everything to be in their place and sometimes redesigning my room in some sort of manner. But after that, it depends on how I'm feeling. If I'm generally content and happy it stays clean, but once I get moody and am not too happy, things start to get messy, particularly my clothes being everywhere.

[Gilly]

I know LIIs who are the freakiest of neat freaks, but I also know LIIs who are even messier than I. Subtype difference, probably.

[Joy]

I don't put clothes away.

[Gilly]

I used to be like that. Then I grew up.

[eunice]

I am not a neat freak, but I try not to be messy so that I have less work cleaning up.

[UDP]

Next semester, I am instituting a new weekend program. Time to grow up and be a man about keeping your room orderly, room-mate.
See, G-man knows what I'm taking about:

I used to be like that. Then I grew up.

[UDP]

I know LIIs who are the freakiest of neat freaks, but I also know LIIs who are even messier than I. Subtype difference, probably.

Hmm.... this may be the case. I was completely oblivious in my younger days. But now...... it's much much more important to me. In fact I am organizing my room at this very moment.

[FDG]

I am...average. I dislike cleaning immensely, but I don't produce a lot of mess, so it takes time for my spaces to become cluttered.

[Gilly]

Next semester, I am instituting a new weekend program. Time to grow up and be a man about keeping your room orderly, room-mate.
See, G-man knows what I'm taking about:

I used to be like that. Then I grew up.

I love you more all the time, UDP

[snegledmaca]

Myself -- I generally don't notice the mess (subdued ) unless it interferes with my efficiency (strong ), in which case I will take action to at least organise the mess. I can be a bit bossy about neatness when I feel like things are getting in my way.

Funny, I'm *exactly* the same. I think it's only normal to not notice things until they start "getting in the way" with the difference that for some people the tolerance is low (Like neat freaks) while for others exceptionally high.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Quirk Satellite Div.]

Compared to other people around my age, I'm generally pretty neat- always putting my clothes away, making my bed every day, filing away things that get in the way, etc. Some people have even called me a neat freak. It takes a long time for my room to degenerate into a mess, if it ever gets to that point in the first place. I can't say I am very organized, but I usually file things well enough that I can locate things I haven't used in years pretty quickly if I need to. If I'm in an area that's messy and unfamiliar to me, I usually become uncomfortable. It's odd; my parents never forced me to clean my room when I was young, I just tended to do it on my own initiative. However, my schoolwork and binders are hardly ever organized; I would usually just throw a bunch of papers into folders and dished them out when I needed them. I would usually try to be more organized, but in the end, it was just too much effort to maintain for my naturally lazy self. My obsession didn't really have much to do with being organized or efficient, but being too worried about my health, comfort, and living arrangements. This behavior probably stems from a more active role.

[Creepy-bg]

yo bio, have you made up your mind abuot your type yet?
and what's your ex's type?

I'm like a walking disaster zone creator... everywhere I go mess is sure to follow. Part of the problem is that my hands have a mind of their own and are usually pretty hyper. Without thinking about it I tend to shred and tear apart anything near me into little pieces. I usually don't notice this until I get up and see the confetti that's surrounding where I was sitting. Also when I'm finished with things like soda cans, food wrappers or cigarrete butts I tend to just throw them off to the side and never think about them again. Add on top of all this my enjoyment of smoking the pot and you've got little piles of seeds and stems and cashed out half smoked bowls lying all over the place on most surfaces of my room. It's pretty funny when I'm over at my ex's visiting because she just kind of follows around picking up after me without a word because she's so used to my ways (and she's a bit of a cleaning freak) That part of our relationship actually worked out really well because I gave her something to clean (she needs that or she starts screwing with her body compulsively) and she made sure I didn't end up in the middle of a pigsty of shredded paper and empty soda cans lol

Hiya Falafal!
we're going with ISFp (for now :wink: ) I still think the ex was ESFp. If I could get her to focus for more than a minute on something I'd maybe get her to take a test or read a profile (hehe that's not likely to happen though )

I need a new woman.

[Creepy-bg]

yo bio, have you made up your mind abuot your type yet?
and what's your ex's type?

I'm like a walking disaster zone creator... everywhere I go mess is sure to follow. Part of the problem is that my hands have a mind of their own and are usually pretty hyper. Without thinking about it I tend to shred and tear apart anything near me into little pieces. I usually don't notice this until I get up and see the confetti that's surrounding where I was sitting. Also when I'm finished with things like soda cans, food wrappers or cigarrete butts I tend to just throw them off to the side and never think about them again. Add on top of all this my enjoyment of smoking the pot and you've got little piles of seeds and stems and cashed out half smoked bowls lying all over the place on most surfaces of my room. It's pretty funny when I'm over at my ex's visiting because she just kind of follows around picking up after me without a word because she's so used to my ways (and she's a bit of a cleaning freak) That part of our relationship actually worked out really well because I gave her something to clean (she needs that or she starts screwing with her body compulsively) and she made sure I didn't end up in the middle of a pigsty of shredded paper and empty soda cans lol

Hiya Falafal!
we're going with ISFp (for now :wink: ) I still think the ex was ESFp. If I could get her to focus for more than a minute on something I'd maybe get her to take a test or read a profile (hehe that's not likely to happen though )

I need a new woman.

an esfp picking up after you?

WOW

well she ain't exactly right in the head

[redbaron]

Hmmm, well I'm an INFp (or possibly an ISFp) and I have little concern for neatness or tidiness unless we are having guests (and guests includes the baby sitter!) and then I clean like a mad woman, I get out the vacuum cleaner and wipe down the bathrooms, everything gets cleaned. It's a little weird. But living with clutter doesn't bother me whatsoever. Now my husband, that's an entirely different story. I don't have him typed yet but he cannot sit down and eat a meal unless the entire kitchen is cleaned up from the preparation. It drives me crazy. It's extremely hard for him to relax unless the house is picked up.

[jaja]

yes. ESTJs... my mom

[UDP]

Having an organized room does feel good.

[Creepy-bg]

at home I feel empty inside when things are too clean or organized but at work I like it that way because it gives me something to do (I actually like when people make messes at work because I can re-organize and make things straight again then) like I said though... I'm not like that at all at home, I never clean unless forced.

[UDP]

at home I feel empty inside when things are too clean or organized.

To speak mystically, I believe that feeling is the coldness of logic. It is like a refreshing, cool evening breeze to me.

[Quirk Satellite Div.]

Compared to other people around my age, I'm generally pretty neat- always putting my clothes away, making my bed every day, filing away things that get in the way, etc. Some people have even called me a neat freak. It takes a long time for my room to degenerate into a mess, if it ever gets to that point in the first place. I can't say I am very organized, but I usually file things well enough that I can locate things I haven't used in years pretty quickly if I need to. If I'm in an area that's messy and unfamiliar to me, I usually become uncomfortable. It's odd; my parents never forced me to clean my room when I was young, I just tended to do it on my own initiative. However, my schoolwork and binders are hardly ever organized; I would usually just throw a bunch of papers into folders and dished them out when I needed them. I would usually try to be more organized, but in the end, it was just too much effort to maintain for my naturally lazy self. My obsession didn't really have much to do with being organized or efficient, but being too worried about my health, comfort, and living arrangements. This behavior probably stems from a more active role.

It sounds more like is a quadra value than a subdued element.

I had considered the possibility, but I know it hasn't manifested the same way as other's with as an unconscious quadra value. And it's not really something I'm strong at either; it's more like I always feel conscious of the need to take care of it. I'm always thinking every few minutes, "Am I still hungry? When do I get to eat next? Have I been eating too unhealthily? You need to take a shower soon. Better wash your hands- they feel too greasy. etc." Well, I guess I have had positive experiences with thoughts and actions that deal with . Maybe I am misunderstanding 's manifestations in individuals. How is displayed in INxp's? Is my behavior something more along the lines of a hidden agenda?


Bionicgoat, you sound worse than my old apartment-mates. Our cleaning habits were what really caused stress in the household. I once got so angry that one of my apartment-mates left his dirty dishes in the sink for a week(it was a very small sink, and five of us needed to use it), that I put up a comic meant to remind kids to wash their dishes, except the character in the picture while washing the dishes was saying his favorite catch-phrase. I don't think my apartment-mate appreciated my humour.

I agree, having a clean living arrangement does feel comfortable. Although, I can't relate to feeling empty or lifelessly perfect when arrangements are too clean.

[Creepy-bg]

at home I feel empty inside when things are too clean or organized.

To speak mystically, I believe that feeling is the coldness of logic. It is like a refreshing, cool evening breeze to me.

huh... interresting

[XoX]

at home I feel empty inside when things are too clean or organized.

To speak mystically, I believe that feeling is the coldness of logic. It is like a refreshing, cool evening breeze to me.

huh... interresting

That would mean Bionic's hidden agenda is to feel empty inside?

[Creepy-bg]

at home I feel empty inside when things are too clean or organized.

To speak mystically, I believe that feeling is the coldness of logic. It is like a refreshing, cool evening breeze to me.

huh... interresting

That would mean Bionic's hidden agenda is to feel empty inside?

[Quirk Satellite Div.]

I don't think Gamma NTs are so concerned about their health/etc.. I am personally concerned about mine because I do have a lot of medical issues, but even with that motivation it's still a struggle, it's something I would never think about without frequent reminders. I've gone for days without eating simply because it never occurred to me.

Although I suspect it wouldn't be drastically different, would it be right to say that manifests in almost indistinguishable ways in both INTp's and ENTj's. The not eating for day seems like a characteristic of I have noticed in INTj's, but it doesn't seem like something INTp's could do easily- and I'm not using personal evidence upon the assumption that I am an INTp- food definitely seems like something that INTp's do have on their mind(not necessarily "health"), from type descriptions to articles of information expressed by other INTp's on this board. And for me, even though I didn't have any medical problems, trying to maintain my imaginary health problems was still a struggle- it was never easy. Most of the time I was worrying rather than actually doing anything to improve my health(not that it needed to be improved any more.) Even though at points I can be a bit excessive, I still prefer a maintaining tidiness, comfort, and marginal levels of health and physical ability.

Beta NFs might be a bit more concerned about it because of the "image" aspects of their quadra values.

At one point in time, my experience was heavily based not really on maintaining a healthy "image" per se, but not being fat or not looking very unathletic. It was more of a personal image than anything else. I will take this information into consideration.

I still wouldn't it out as a quadra value for you.

I did jump the gun saying that my behavior mentioned previously in this thread was a display of an role. I am not really giving the full story, because I do worry a lot about other things besides health and comfort just as much, if not more. I do display not just worry in these things, but also enjoyment in sensory pleasures, but the reason I thought it might be a role because I have read that Ip's all enjoy comfortable living conditions, and I think I read too much into this. Some of the INTp type descriptions on health seemed to match my views as well, but we know how vulnerable to interpretation they can be. I just didn't think that it was a quadra value because:

• After research, I really couldn't relate to the way INxj's in general treat matters.
• is clearly a weak point with me, so there is no way I could have it as an ego function.
• I couldn't fathom being considered a ENxp when I have such heavy introverted tendencies.

But I will look into this more thuroughly and make sure I am not excluding any evidence.

[Exodus]

Please change your signature, it's driving me nuts. You are obviously IxTp. edit: logical subtype.

[UDP]

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