How do you cope with your PoLR? Reactions and compensation.

[snegledmaca]

When things go wrong, that is, when I subjectively perceive things to be going wrong, when things are going wrong from my understanding of what it means for things to go wrong, which by the way I think itself is an influenced by ones type, it's because I wasn't good enough, I should've tried harder, I should've done better, that is, it's solely my responsibility for not performing adequately, not preparing properly and so on. I guess you could call it a result of Te PoLR as it centers around inadequate performance.

To continue on the sentiment that even perceiving what the problems are is type related, kritiinas natural inclination to involve people is unnatural to me. For example, what she says centers around people and stuff, they think she's icky or something. Personally I would never focus on what other people think about me and so on, I just don't care. I do my thing and any problems I encounter are solely of a technical nature, even when they are between people. For example, people treating me bad can be solved through altering my stance towards them or some such thing. In general I don't care what they think or feel about me as long as the relation is functioning properly, that is, for all I care they may utterly and truly despise me but if I can accomplish what I set out to do it their private sentiment do not concern me.

[Kristiina]

When things go wrong, that is, when I subjectively perceive things to be going wrong, when things are going wrong from my understanding of what it means for things to go wrong, which by the way I think itself is an influenced by ones type, it's because I wasn't good enough, I should've tried harder, I should've done better, that is, it's solely my responsibility for not performing adequately, not preparing properly and so on. I guess you could call it a result of Te PoLR as it centers around inadequate performance.

To continue on the sentiment that even perceiving what the problems are is type related, kritiinas natural inclination to involve people is unnatural to me. For example, what she says centers around people and stuff, they think she's icky or something. Personally I would never focus on what other people think about me and so on, I just don't care. I do my thing and any problems I encounter are solely of a technical nature, even when they are between people. For example, people treating me bad can be solved through altering my stance towards them or some such thing. In general I don't care what they think or feel about me as long as the relation is functioning properly, that is, for all I care they may utterly and truly despise me but if I can accomplish what I set out to do it their private sentiment do not concern me.

wow. that is so different from how I think. But it's somehow very lovely. And it's very IP. Whenever there's a problem, you try to fix it by changing yourself, whereas I'd try to change OTHER people/factors.

[Mariano Rajoy]

Whenever something goes wrong, we first assume it was because of our PoLR. Te PoLR says, "I was too stupid to do something about it", Fi PoLR says, "They think I'm mean that's why it all happened", Fe PoLR says, "I didn't say the right things.", Si PoLR says, "they think I'm icky, that's why it all happened." etc.

This has been hinted at earlier but I don't remember this aspect being specifically discussed.

When the reasons are clear, then even I might sometimes say "I was too stupid" or "they think I'm mean" or "I didn't say the right things." but when there are options of what could have caused a disaster or whatever, I first assume it's because people don't like me physically (body language/weight/hair/attractiveness/clothes/accent etc). This can hardly be a reason for any disaster when I think about it rationally, but whenever I meet someone who isn't instantly super-friendly I assume it's because of Si reasons. ("he probably thought the lipstick was too much and thinks I'm trying too hard.")

Is it the same way for you and your PoLR?

Interesting point you bring up. I can think of two specific instances, one that acknowledges your position, and one that does not.

The specific instance that does not agree with the idea of blaming the PoLR involves a relationship that has gone wrong. My reaction was not about Se in that I didn't think there was anything that could be done to save it, and instead acknowledged that we were not the right choice for the either. It was not so much blame as much as it was an acknowledgment of incompatibility. I suppose if I were to blame my PoLR, I would have cursed myself for not being forward enough, or perhaps being too forward; when and how often to ring, when and how often to see the other person, etc.

The other instance involves my line of work; bouncing. A specific night involved 4 gentlemen that wanted a drink after the bar had closed, and the 4 became aggressive when told no. Long story short, they tried to kick the shit out of myself, but I was able to restrain one until the police arrived. Looking back at the situation, I do evaluate it in terms of Se. Next time I will be more aware of where everyone is (which is hard because adrenaline gives tunnel-vision), and if I had positioned myself slightly differently, it would have made so much difference. Furthermore, in retrospect I am now more inclined to strike first in multiple attacker scenarios.

I do understand your first point though, and I see similar thoughts expressed by an EIE friend. In this case, I would suggest the EIE blamed the Si PoLR to the point of developing an eating disorder.

[snegledmaca]

wow. that is so different from how I think. But it's somehow very lovely. And it's very IP. Whenever there's a problem, you try to fix it by changing yourself, whereas I'd try to change OTHER people/factors.

It's because I consider my life to a consequence of myself, that is, my life starts and ends with me.

And I don't really try to fix the problem by changing myself, but the circumstances, the situation in general. Again, there is an absence of a focus on people, even if it is just myself, that is, I view myself in the context of the situation, the circumstances, and in that manner approach changing myself. I'm guessing you would approach it from the otehr side, try to make the circumstances, the context emanate from yourself.

Also, curious, what makes you say IP? It doesn't really strike me as being very much a go with the flow type, live and let live of attitude, that is, if having to pick a temperament I'd say perhaps IJ as it has a certain take charge attitude, an element of control, dictated structure.

[Kristiina]

Also, curious, what makes you say IP? It doesn't really strike me as being very much a go with the flow type, live and let live of attitude, that is, if having to pick a temperament I'd say perhaps IJ as it has a certain take charge attitude, an element of control, dictated structure.

mhh... IJ could work too. I have been comparing attitudes and temperaments with an IEI and ILI. There's always the difference, that I think the world must change, they think they must change. IP vs IJ, I actually agree with what you said about the element of control.

lol...at the same time... when something goes terribly wrong, the IP would find a way to change themselves to fit the situation and the IJ would panic, "OMG, something must change. I don't change, I can't change others... OMG, nothing can change, but something must change. The problem will never go away! OH NO!".

[FDG]

There's also the option that there are never problems, and nobody needs to change anything

[JRiddy]

I definitely relate to the PoLR. When things go wrong socially, I always assume that I was really mean to someone and didn't know it. And that all those people basically hate me. I'm aware that it's irrational, but that's the first place I go.

[Ms. Kensington]

yeah in the past I think I used to blame lack of dual seeking for my problems. "they weren't nice enough" or something... I used to be oblivious to my polr .. just blamed others "why aren't people nicer/why don't people see my signals"

currently I blame my polr... "why don't i DO something" and i try consciously to overcome it.

btw, i dont want to give the impression that i blame people all the time. I usually try to be rational about everything and not take an attitude of blame, but of problem resoultion, that thats the truth

[Kristiina]

"Wow, I really screwed up, that was really stupid of me..."

"I must be the dumbest person alive."

Yep, that sounds like me.

the truth is that people usually don't see their PoLR the right way. Things are much better than we think they are. We underestimate our skills in that area. You always seemed pretty smart to me.

(btw, cool, that was your 1,500 post)

[Kristiina]

Thanks Kristiina, that meant a lot.

awww, that's so sweet. It like really made me giggle.

[Expat]

While I do not have any discomfort in conjuring ideas that critically examine a frame of mind or assertion, I rarely voice my thoughts (though this is gradually changing) in the face of those who may potentially react in a hostile fashion towards my ideas, especially where my person would be drawn into the mix. Basically, I for a long time had an utter phobia of being the object of ridicule, especially being the ridicule of a group consensus. I don't mind my ideas being critically examined as long as it is done in a wholly impersonal manner, but the taunting, even vicious act of being ripped to shreds, especially publicly, is about the worst thing I could have imagined enduring when I was younger. Online, I sometimes developed a hit and run attitude of declaring my thoughts that would potentially turn the stormy tide of accusation towards my meek person. I just found myself completely vulnerable to such situations and defenseless even if I intellectually knew better.

In the past I probably attributed such extreme fears to the PoLR, but I think that's incorrect. I think that such extreme fears - the "worst thing you could have imagined" - are related to the super-id, and to the dual-seeking in particular.

In your particular example - an extreme fear of public ridicule - I would attribute it to in the super-id, perhaps most likely as dual-seeking, and perhaps blocked with . Or perhaps the other way around.

The PoLR is not "the worst thing we could have imagined" - the PoLR is something we don't care about, and are surprised that others do. It is only a major issue if we are expected to focus on it a lot, which leads to a sense of helplessness, but that's not what you seem to be describing.

[aka-kitsune]

In the past I probably attributed such extreme fears to the PoLR, but I think that's incorrect. I think that such extreme fears - the "worst thing you could have imagined" - are related to the super-id, and to the dual-seeking in particular.

Interesting. When I scanned the first post, I thought it vaguely sounded like phobias would concern the dual-seeking function as well. How do you think that might manifest in an IEI with dual-seeking?

[Expat]

How do you think that might manifest in an IEI with dual-seeking?

I would guess -- it would be a sense of being the person of least power in a given environment (as in any kind of structure or hierarchy, or even a social one), and where all the other people, with more power, are your enemies. A situation of vulnerabilty, of powerlessness, before people who are ill-disposed towards you.

[aka-kitsune]

I would guess -- it would be a sense of being the person of least power in a given environment (as in any kind of structure or hierarchy, or even a social one), and where all the other people, with more power, are your enemies. A situation of vulnerabilty, of powerlessness, before people who are ill-disposed towards you.

Can't say I encounter this situation regularly, perhaps because I might instinctively avoid it. Also, I don't generally have enemies, as I have always cultivated a sense of inconspicuity.

But I do have overall "control" issues.
I am very sensitive to power games and resist being controlled.

[Gilly]

This is cool. What about Ti DS?

[Expat]

This is cool. What about Ti DS?

What about -- fear that something you deeply believe in, which gives, say, meaning to your life, is not true? Or that someone in whom you totally believed turned out to be lying to you about everything all along - about matters you found important and truly believed in?

Example: a die-hard communist fearing that perhaps there is nothing to it and he was wrong all along; and/or that his main communist "mentor" was actually in it for the money and all that he said was bullshit all along.

[Gilly]

Heh, sounds fine There was this movie that a friend of mine showed me called The Last Minute that I think exemplifies this kind of thing...this guy is an artist and he is supposedly like the "new big thing," and this agency is all about him and there's all this build-up and hype and shit, but after a while he gets into the "real" world of art, starts hearing all of the criticism, realizing that most people are only in it for the money, etc etc...I really identified with this kind of "fall from grace," being so invested in something that you forget to be realistic and begin imagining things as "too good to be true," and then having it all fall down around you, seeing people's true colors, realizing the futility of your actions, etc etc...this makes sense.

[implied]

In the past I probably attributed such extreme fears to the PoLR, but I think that's incorrect. I think that such extreme fears - the "worst thing you could have imagined" - are related to the super-id, and to the dual-seeking in particular.

In your particular example - an extreme fear of public ridicule - I would attribute it to in the super-id, perhaps most likely as dual-seeking, and perhaps blocked with . Or perhaps the other way around.

The PoLR is not "the worst thing we could have imagined" - the PoLR is something we don't care about, and are surprised that others do. It is only a major issue if we are expected to focus on it a lot, which leads to a sense of helplessness, but that's not what you seem to be describing.

what about if that sort of thing just pisses you off to no end? fwiw, i identified a little with hostage_child's post on this. i remember specifically almost becoming very irate in a class once when a professor teased me, singled me out, about being the last person to finish the quiz, while everyone else was still working. and continued to do so while i was working heh. anyhow, i can relate in that i dislike stating my opinions or ideas aloud or in public for that very reason.

[Expat]

what about if that sort of thing just pisses you off to no end? fwiw, i identified a little with hostage_child's post on this. i remember specifically almost becoming very irate in a class once when a professor teased me, singled me out, about being the last person to finish the quiz, while everyone else was still working. and continued to do so while i was working heh. anyhow, i can relate in that i dislike stating my opinions or ideas aloud or in public for that very reason.

Well, I don't think anyone likes being the ridicule of group consensus. But would that be your extreme fear?

[discojoe]

The worst thing I can imagine is one of my kids being kidnapped or murdered or tortured or terribly harmed in some way. I think that entirely has to do with being a mom, and nothing to do with Te DS.

I agree and relate 100%, and I don't think it's only a mom thing. The idea of something like that happening to a loved one is about a billion times worse than imagining it happening to me, and it's probably the worst thing I could ever think of.

[implied]

Well, I don't think anyone likes being the ridicule of group consensus. But would that be your extreme fear?

maybe. at the least i'd list it as something i've thought about/worried about. i've often said that i couldn't really understand the desire to become an actress or whatever, to be famous in general, precisely because of the criticism it brings.

[discojoe]

My biggest "fear" is being told by a really cocky person that I don't know what I'm talking about, though it doesn't necessarily phase me.

[Expat]

For my part, I think my greatest fear is betrayal by someone I trusted 100%. Or being totally committed to a romantic relationship, just to discover I was being an idiot.

[discojoe]

Actually, "cocky" is a bad way of putting it for mine.

To clarify, what would really "get to me" is if someone I saw as respectable and knowledgeable were to quote something I said and respond with something like "You have no idea what you're talking about" and was totally serious.

[Park]

My biggest fear is not finding ways to promote and use my talents and missing opportunities in life. Those things can lead to huge personal dissatisfaction and unfulfillment.

[Park]

For my part, I think my greatest fear is betrayal by someone I trusted 100%. Or being totally committed to a romantic relationship, just to discover I was being an idiot.

I don't have that fear because I don't trust anyone 100%. I never rely on trust.

[The Greeter]

I don't know what I fear. Let me think. . . I have feared that those who think very highly of me will find a reason to turn away in disgust, or will lose their respect for me. Admiration can make me uncomfortable because of the opposite possibility, one of them feeling superior to me, looking down on me, disappointment, or of pity. I fear looking stupid or incapable. I hate being unprepared for a test or task, but particularly for verbal questioning. So, I try to keep those things from happening.

Perhaps fearing looking stupid, incapable and unprepared for a task is related to Te-dual seeking?

[Lobo]

For my part, I think my greatest fear is betrayal by someone I trusted 100%. Or being totally committed to a romantic relationship, just to discover I was being an idiot.

That's mine as well, which is why I am apprehensive of befriending people who are "good actors" or can hide things easily without me knowing it. I don't know how I could handle a complete betrayal... It would be an effective way to debilitate me completely for sure. But this phobia extends to having a significant other that changes their feelings toward me too quickly, which I take as a form of betrayal as well. I am very cautious about these things...

I don't have that fear because I don't trust anyone 100%. I never rely on trust.

I had an ISTp friend who's concept of trust I couldn't fully understand... He didn't trust himself, so he extended it to everybody. I would try to open him up, trying to show him that there are people who are trustworthy in this world, only to lose his trust in a way that surprised me completely. In his head he was convinced that I had offended his family with something I said, and even when I later showed him how it didn't make any sense for me to be offending his parents based on the literal meaning of the wording and my personality, it didn't matter at all. He had it set in his mind that I broke his trust, and that was it... Maybe it was a matter of pride too, in that it would have been very uncomfortable to accept that he was wrong, and had let his emotions get the best of him. In any case, to this day I don't fully understand what happened.

[jason_m]

My worst fear would have to do with practical affairs. For example, forgetting to pay my taxes and then going to jail for it (this is actually possible). Or maybe running someone over when I'm driving, because I'm lost in my own thoughts, instead of paying attention to the road. I can be very forgetful and absent-minded. I don't necessarily agree that it always has to do with the super-id. For example, my fear of not paying my taxes doesn't have anything to do with the fact that I value money. It is because I place so little value on money that terrible things could happen to me as a result of it, and I'm not really motivated by my fears.

However, I think your worst fear might often involve your super-id functions (but not always). The keys are: 1) You lose something you value, 2) It is quite possible that it can happen, and 3) You don't have as much control over the situation as you'd like.

Jason

[Park]

I had an ISTp friend who's concept of trust I couldn't fully understand... He didn't trust himself, so he extended it to everybody. I would try to open him up, trying to show him that there are people who are trustworthy in this world, only to lose his trust in a way that surprised me completely. In his head he was convinced that I had offended his family with something I said, and even when I later showed him how it didn't make any sense for me to be offending his parents based on the literal meaning of the wording and my personality, it didn't matter at all. He had it set in his mind that I broke his trust, and that was it... Maybe it was a matter of pride too, in that it would have been very uncomfortable to accept that he was wrong, and had let his emotions get the best of him. In any case, to this day I don't fully understand what happened.

That's interesting.

(I was gonna write something... but I decided to bring something else up)

When ISTps feel hurt, or their ethics are judged, they push away and withdraw from others. They can show rude or tactless behavior towards people, sometimes flat out ignoring them. When they either feel harmed or frustrated, their generally placid appearance quickly turns fiery and aggressive. In their aggression, they might hit or throw something to let their energy out. ISTps may also become pushy when they run out of patience.

ISTps might have some odd behavior around friends or family. Too much emotional drama can be strenuous to an ISTp. Their unsociability may arise from people not being trustworthy and polite to them, and it increases when others start to question them about their poor social skills. When an ISTp does feel welcome in a group of people, they might even be talkative and friendly. Only the fear of not being accepted will restrain them. When an ISTp feels like he is out of the loop, or that others are verbally hurting him in some way, he might say some insensitive, blunt, things, often without thinking about it. This is because it is a programmed defense mechanism they have, and cannot control it. Unexpectedly, the ISTp’s mood will shoot up when they realize that the other people around them weren’t either offended or left the ISTp behind. It may look cruel to people around them, but this is how an ISTp lets people get closer to them. After the initial contact, the ISTp will try to keep you as a friend as long as they can, secretly valuing deep relationships with people.

[Park]

My worst fear would have to do with practical affairs. For example, forgetting to pay my taxes and then going to jail for it (this is actually possible). Or maybe running someone over when I'm driving, because I'm lost in my own thoughts, instead of paying attention to the road. I can be very forgetful and absent-minded. I don't necessarily agree that it always has to do with the super-id. For example, my fear of not paying my taxes doesn't have anything to do with the fact that I value money. It is because I place so little value on money that terrible things could happen to me as a result of it, and I'm not really motivated by my fears.

Jason

Jason man, you sound exactly like an IEE friend I used to have.

[Lotus]

For me to realize I've put my trust into someone who did not deserve it. That they are not reliable, that they've lied, or reveal the things I have confided in them. I would feel incredibly stupid for believing in some(one/thing) that should not have been trusted or depended on.

I normally have a very good awareness of who I can or cannot trust. That is one reason why a mistake in judgment such as that would feel so detrimental to me-- Because I can no longer trust someone. Also, since I made the judgment to trust them, I can no longer trust myself either!

This has yet to happen because I generally get a sense of someone's trustworthiness early on in a relationship. It's almost always accurate and reliable for me.

[Lobo]

That's interesting.

(I was gonna write something... but I decided to bring something else up)

Originally Posted by Rocky
When ISTps feel hurt, or their ethics are judged, they push away and withdraw from others. They can show rude or tactless behavior towards people, sometimes flat out ignoring them. When they either feel harmed or frustrated, their generally placid appearance quickly turns fiery and aggressive. In their aggression, they might hit or throw something to let their energy out. ISTps may also become pushy when they run out of patience.

ISTps might have some odd behavior around friends or family. Too much emotional drama can be strenuous to an ISTp. Their unsociability may arise from people not being trustworthy and polite to them, and it increases when others start to question them about their poor social skills. When an ISTp does feel welcome in a group of people, they might even be talkative and friendly. Only the fear of not being accepted will restrain them. When an ISTp feels like he is out of the loop, or that others are verbally hurting him in some way, he might say some insensitive, blunt, things, often without thinking about it. This is because it is a programmed defense mechanism they have, and cannot control it. Unexpectedly, the ISTp’s mood will shoot up when they realize that the other people around them weren’t either offended or left the ISTp behind. It may look cruel to people around them, but this is how an ISTp lets people get closer to them. After the initial contact, the ISTp will try to keep you as a friend as long as they can, secretly valuing deep relationships with people.

Yeah, all this sounds familiar. The thing that really bothered me is that it can get into this "me me me" mentality, where he just didn't care about anyone else other than himself when he was hurt. I wasn't treated like the "brother" I was supposed to be, and just ignored me and to me was rude for a few days, also saying really hurtful things. It felt like a betrayal to me, because I really had set a bar before in terms of dealing with other issues and did anything other than pushing him away. Even though he later wanted to still be friends, he still said that it was set in his mind that the trust was lowered and there is nothing I could do about it and that it would take time to heal. Reading what you put up, I have a good feeling that I also questioned his morality not only at that point, but in some cases before when I saw that they were messed up, which might have added more to the uncomfort of the situation. Since all this was bs to me, I decided to let the friendship go. Long story short, now he "wants to be left alone," which I think means that I won't be talking to him anymore.

[Logos]

Are cockroaches ?

[FDG]

My greatest fear is to be hit by a truck when I'm cycling

[Slacker]

My greatest fear is that something will happen to my child or husband. And it seems to be Ne-related because I think of a trillion things that could happen to them, one after another, all the time.

[strrrng]

That's mine as well, which is why I am apprehensive of befriending people who are "good actors" or can hide things easily without me knowing it. I don't know how I could handle a complete betrayal... It would be an effective way to debilitate me completely for sure. But this phobia extends to having a significant other that changes their feelings toward me too quickly, which I take as a form of betrayal as well. I am very cautious about these things...

I suppose I fear betrayal in a way, but I think I expect it. I don't expect people to be caring or supportive; I think in the end that you only have yourself. This has produced an awareness within me that I have carried for years, and thus, I have always kept a part of myself hidden from people (to varying degrees). I am ready for the worst situation - when everything falls to shit and all you have left is yourself. So, you could say I have a tiny void in the dark corners of my soul, which I never fill up or let anyone else fill up, because it is simply not worth it most of the time. I have had friends who attached themselves to me so quickly and strongly. I think, "How can you do this? I could turn around tomorrow and completely fuck you over." Thus I have always maintained a sort of control over my social relationships, where the other person tends to get pulled in due to my quiet amiability, listening skills and ostensible acceptance of them. It's not as if I don't care about them; it's just that I want them to be as wary as me. I want them to have that awareness. Once that is established, you can possibly trust the person. You both know the dangers, but come to terms with it and relate on that level, thus establishing an equal playing field.

Or maybe I'm just fucked up, lol.

For me to realize I've put my trust into someone who did not deserve it. That they are not reliable, that they've lied, or reveal the things I have confided in them. I would feel incredibly stupid for believing in some(one/thing) that should not have been trusted or depended on.

So, you are wary to attach yourself due to this. And thus want others to be as well, for how can you trust someone who is so easily duped? They are weak and blind.

I normally have a very good awareness of who I can or cannot trust. That is one reason why a mistake in judgment such as that would feel so detrimental to me-- Because I can no longer trust someone. Also, since I made the judgment to trust them, I can no longer trust myself either!

Right, this can be very damaging.

This has yet to happen because I generally get a sense of someone's trustworthiness early on in a relationship. It's almost always accurate and reliable for me.

Good.

[strrrng]

My greatest fear is to be hit by a truck when I'm cycling

lol Fabio

[Park]

My greatest fear is that something will happen to my child or husband. And it seems to be Ne-related because I think of a trillion things that could happen to them, one after another, all the time.

Maybe it's also enneagram 6 related.

[Slacker]

Maybe it's also enneagram 6 related.

My understanding based on my limited knowledge of the ennegram is that I'm 7w6. I certainly identify with 7 more than 6. But, anyway, I just think it's related to being a parent.