INTJ dates psychopathic INFJ

[drd252]

Well, I'm a 20 year old INTJ male, and I had been dating a 21 year old INFJ female, who I will refer to as S. Initially, it was a very sweet experience; we were very attracted to each other from the beginning due to our shared uniqueness. We are both very intelligent individuals, have similar views on most things, and make decisions in a similar fashion.

Anyway, as we became more intimate, S revealed to me some rather disturbing things. Aside from her obvious self-destructive behavior (heavy drinking, oxycodone use, cocaine use, and VERY promiscuous sexual activity), she actually told me that she's a psychopath and that she will destroy my life. At the time, I was inclined to dismiss these statements as some sort of dirty talk But as I would soon find out, she had every intention of doing so.

The more time we spent together, the more confused I became, and the more clear her malicious plan became. I suddenly found myself hanging out with S several times a week, staying up 'till dawn drinking, doing drugs and each other. When we were together all she would talk about is how amazing I am, how good I make her feel, and how she wants to see me (read: have sex with me) every day. But as soon as I would drop her off at home her attitude would completely change; she'd suddenly not want to see me, or hardly talk to me for a couple days. She would blame this on post-drinking-drug-use depression. Needless to say, this whole situation was very bad for me, as this was happening during the final month of the semester, right through finals week; when we were together, I was acting irresponsibly, and when we were apart I couldn't sleep because I was so goddamn confused.

Very long story short, I concluded that S was using me to fulfill some twisted desire or another and I was being emotionally manipulated; she's a psychopath.

And finally the point of my rant; I'm afraid I might be exhibiting psychopathic behaviors/tendencies, because I noticed I was acting similarly to S toward the end of our friendship. Are INTJ/INFJs naturally inclined to exhibit psychopathic behaviors?

I've never been really close to anyone, and everything I've ever done has been to satisfy myself, trying to be the best, as efficient as possible. It's not like I intentionally set out to hurt or manipulate people, but as an INTJ, I'm not readily aware of emotional states of people and have unintentionally hurt people; conversely, when I am "in tune" with people, I can very readily manipulate them, I just recently remembered the fact that I've manipulated people, which is disturbing, because selective memory is a hallmark of psychopathic behavior. What's more disturbing is the fact that up until this realization, I'd been making a conscious effort to minimize feelings of guilt or "sorrow" for my actions; that's not to say that I deny responsibility for my actions, I strive to make decisions that do not warrant guilt, sorrow, or regret. Furthermore, when I do make a "bad" decision (one that hurts someone), I try not to see it as "bad"; I try to see all decisions, and the situations they give rise to, for what they are, a learning experience, not "good" or "bad".

So, it seems that in my unyielding attempt to be the best person I can be, and thereby better humanity, I've unwittingly started down the path to becoming a psychopath. I don't want to hurt people, but it seems like I'm inadvertently acquiring the skills to do so.

[UDP]

Ah, the wonders of MBTI......
note: Socionics is not the same as MBTI

*edited for being too judgemental...*


Have fun learning a new theory.

Are INTJ/INFJs naturally inclined to exhibit psychopathic behaviors?

No. It is not wise to excuse bad habits do to a score on a test.

[FDG]

She just had BPD, not type related.

[Typeless Wonder]

So, it seems that in my unyielding attempt to be the best person I can be, and thereby better humanity, I've unwittingly started down the path to becoming a psychopath. I don't want to hurt people, but it seems like I'm inadvertently acquiring the skills to do so.

I'm just wondering what it is you want from this relationship. If you want emotional intimacy and not something that will devolve into heartless manipulation, I think you should run. And I doubt if you're a psychopath, psychopaths have no conscience, they don't worry about going down the wrong path as you worry about yourself, they don't care about bettering humanity at all. They are the epitomy of selfishness, remorselessness, and narcissism. They completely couldn't careless if their actions hurt other people as they feel no guilt.

[Slacker]

If you aren't out of this relationship, get out of it. Then move on. You'll be fine.

[XoX]

Umm...I don't know. I would think no psychopath or sociopath really admits they are one. At least that's what I've heard. They are pretty pathological liars and think there is nothing wrong with them but instead everyone else around them is flawed or something. You sound too honest and not manipulative really. Perhaps because you are anonymous here.

But I can see how some kind of other personality disorder could play a part in this (or the initial stages of one) but I'd tend to think your life habbits are just so unhealthy that it drives anyone down that path. I think most of these kind of problems are caused by bad life habbits. The deeper you are the harder to get out. I mean if you sleep enough, eat healthy, have some life goals and don't abuse any substances then pretty much all your problems are gone. Of course a healthy relationship on top of that wouldn't hurt.

And I'm not so sure yet you are socionics INTj/INFj. Have you read about socionics or just MBTI?

[Expat]

She just had BPD, not type related.

Probably.

If you aren't out of this relationship, get out of it. Then move on. You'll be fine.

Yes.

Umm...I don't know. I would think no psychopath or sociopath really admits they are one.

Yes.

drd252, I very much doubt you are becoming a psycopath in any way. Further, my guess is that you are a Socionics INTp or ENTj who met a very disturbed Socionics ESFp or ISFj. But this is just a guess.

As Slacker Mom said, you'll probably be fine if you get out of it.

[FDG]

True, INTp-ESFp sounds possible

[drd252]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Thanks for reassuring me of my sanity in this situation.

I'm aware that MBTI and Socionics are different, but I haven't really invested the time to understanding the nuanced differences; I will do so before posting next time, to avoid sounding like a total idiot.

To elaborate more upon this relationship; we stopped hooking up a while ago and decided to "just be friends", and it was after that point she started acting really erratic. She started to flake out a lot, and I thought she was acting like a malicious psychopath, so I cut her off and haven't talked to her in weeks.

After reading up on borderline personality disorder, this is EXACTLY how S acts (with a dash of narcissistic personality disorder). However, with that said, her behavior isn't TOTALLY under her control, which is the exact opposite of what I thought. So, I'm somewhat inclined to want to start talking to her again, because she's a really cool person when she's not acting all crazy for no reason; I figure that since I know what's wrong with her, I can deal with her craziness better.

[drd252]

After reading the multiple type descriptions you guys think I might be, at socionics.com (INTp, ENTj) and rereading the description for INTj, I'm certain that I'm mostly, and usually an INTj. I almost never behave like an INTp, and I typically behave more like an ENTj only at parties, and even then, it's difficult to switch from I to E.

[Expat]

Well I think you should discuss this a bit more, if you're interested in finding your type.

As for S, I hope you know what you're doing. Just because she doesn't have some evil scheme it doesn't mean that it's a good idea.

[drd252]

Well I think you should discuss this a bit more, if you're interested in finding your type.

As for S, I hope you know what you're doing. Just because she doesn't have some evil scheme it doesn't mean that it's a good idea.

I'm sticking by INTj damn it! lol. Should I discuss it on this topic, or start a new one somewhere else?

As for the "S situation", synchronicity attacked me today. I was discussing the situation with one of my friends at school, and after lunch I ran into S; we made brief eye contact, and fleetingly started towards each other, then just as suddenly we both headed away. I was very unprepared for this encounter, and was in dire need of a cigarette, so I walked for a while, then decided to break down and buy a single. On my way to buy a cigarette I inadvertently came across S sitting on a bench. We talked, and she's convinced that she's a total bitch and that nothing "good will come from us talking" because she's "a psycho" and she doesn't want to talk to me. I told her that I'd be there, if she changed her mind, but I dont really expect her to. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure this chapter in my life is closed.

Thanks again everyone for your insights.

[Expat]

I'm sticking by INTj damn it! lol. Should I discuss it on this topic, or start a new one somewhere else?

Start one somewhere else, it's perhaps better.

[drd252]

@drd252... do u have any idea what is causing the destructive behaviour? there is not much to go on here, but it might help if we knew that. maybe there is something else going on with her, and unfortunately u r experiencing the indirect results? it could be that she feels guilty when she comes to her senses for indirectly hurting u, therefore she'd rather just stay away than put u through it??

As far as I can tell, her behavior stems from childhood, specifically dealing with a sense abandonment from her father (from what she's told me of him, he's very much an INTj, very emotionally cold). She's told me she feels obligated, or compelled to gain acceptance from men. Her desire for instant results has made her quite a slut, she told me she's slept with 14 men (I didn't ask how many women) in 7 years; I know she's lying, because I know she's slept with at least 4 different people within the last 6 months.

At this point, it doesn't really matter; she's one big self fulfilling negative prophecy. I told her I thought she has BPD; I can only hope she'll seek professional help.

[Grek0]

My 2c, I know INFjs are attractive and sweet and drive us INTps crazy, but they are not the right match for us. Stay away from them. You are being used in what is, at best, a semi-conscious way (from her side). And if you are a psychopath, then you'd be the first psychopath in medical history who questions his own mental health

[Blaze]

I don't think labels like psychopath are quite useful since they inflame things a little bit too much.

It sounds to me like she has a major substance abuse problem and believe me when I tell you, dealing with other people's substance abuse sucks. It's a constant, the whole relationship revolves around the substance use. Who wants that? Some people who like to be large and in charge and feel superior, love to be around other people's substance abuse....doesn't sound like you're one of them. What's also probably happening is that she gets heavily intoxicated on whatever substance and loses her inhibitions and sleeps with whoever she finds herself with. Quite common with female addicts, actually.

You seem to be someone she is attracted to with her heart but yet she is caught up in her addictive process, which is totally out of her control. She's inviting you to save her but you cannot. You may be attracted to what seems to be a wild and free side that she has...so different from a typical intj way of doing things. But it's just substance-induced and probably not even that great of an indication of what she is like when she is not using.

You mention feeling as though you are also manipulative and does that make you a psychopath. Everyone is at least somewhat manipulative as we go through life trying to get our needs met. The key is respect for self and others as we do this, and with some kind of moral/spiritual foundation. There are many things that you can learn about yourself here as an intj. At your age, really at any age, the key is self knowledge. What do you need and want from others? What can you give others? It's really all about you. This is a good site and a good theory for finding some assistance with this, especially for NT types who perhaps struggle a little bit more with relationships.

Good luck!

[.thursday]

My 2c, I know INFjs are attractive and sweet and drive us INTps crazy, but they are not the right match for us. Stay away from them. You are being used in what is, at best, a semi-conscious way (from her side). And if you are a psychopath, then you'd be the first psychopath in medical history who questions his own mental health

i don't think this is an appropriate generalization/piece of advice (as far as "for us", but maybe for him)

[Grek0]

I used "us" in a narrower sense here, him and me, the two of us. INFjs are almost always very attractive to me but they are best left alone. INTps are not very good in the role of other' "saviours", perhaps because we tend to believe that it is best to rely only on own strength. At least I do. From my experience with INFjs, and I have met several, they seem to be in some quest for a saviour. That in itself would probably not be too bad, were it not for a mazochistic need that calls for the continuation of this quest in perpetuity. In other words, they do not really want to be saved. This drives one nuts. You are not the one to get her out of her problems

[drd252]

I used "us" in a narrower sense here, him and me, the two of us. INFjs are almost always very attractive to me but they are best left alone. INTps are not very good in the role of other' "saviours", perhaps because we tend to believe that it is best to rely only on own strength. At least I do. From my experience with INFjs, and I have met several, they seem to be in some quest for a saviour. That in itself would probably not be too bad, were it not for a mazochistic need that calls for the continuation of this quest in perpetuity. In other words, they do not really want to be saved. This drives one nuts. You are not the one to get her out of her problems

Yeah, I totally agree; it's fuckin pathetic that people realize there's something wrong with them, want someone to help, and then get mad when you offer help.

[April]

Please don't associate that sort of behavior with INFjs; we don't even know if your girlfriend really was an INFj. Your girlfriend was obviously unhealthy. She probably had BPD and a substance abuse problem. Something bad probably happened to her in her past that made her chaotic (abuse?), which is typical of those with BPD and substance abuse problems. When you came to her as a healthier person wanting to help her, she couldn't take it because it's in her biology now, it's wired in her brain, to act in these chaotic ways. She probably also couldn't be in a stable relationship because of her past and current problems. She had to sabotage it. Sound familiar? Not type related.

[drd252]

Please don't associate that sort of behavior with INFjs; we don't even know if your girlfriend really was an INFj. Your girlfriend was obviously unhealthy. She probably had BPD and a substance abuse problem. Something bad probably happened to her in her past that made her chaotic (abuse?), which is typical of those with BPD and substance abuse problems. When you came to her as a healthier person wanting to help her, she couldn't take it because it's in her biology now, it's wired in her brain, to act in these chaotic ways. She probably also couldn't be in a stable relationship because of her past and current problems. She had to sabotage it. Sound familiar? Not type related.

It's already been firmly established that this issue is not type related, and that I'd been dealing with a garden variety crazy bitch.

[xyz]

It's already been firmly established that this issue is not type related, and that I'd been dealing with a garden variety crazy bitch.

Congrats for figuring it out, some guys don't.

[HKitty]

After reading the multiple type descriptions you guys think I might be, at socionics.com (INTp, ENTj) and rereading the description for INTj, I'm certain that I'm mostly, and usually an INTj. I almost never behave like an INTp, and I typically behave more like an ENTj only at parties, and even then, it's difficult to switch from I to E.

The INTP profile on socionics.com is pretty negative, at least IMO.
Try checking up on the functions (i.e. Extroverted intuition, introverted thinking, etc) first. And even though I'm still kindof a n00b, I'm pretty sure you don't just switch from I to E.

[Christy B]

THis post is from early 2007. Why was it brought out again? Since it was I htink that girl is crazy, but why do you think INFJ. I have never know a sexually promiscuous one. I'm sure they exist, but I haven't heard of it yet.

[istpunk]

gay sex

[Christy B]

The T vs F divide is true. With Thinkers we're direct and can definitely upfront about things. WIth Feelers, those types of people beat around the bush while pretending to be "peacekeeper" (unless you annoy them, then they will become psycho and do erratic things.)

And here's the kicker for you INFJs. INFJS are the LOWEST and MOST UNSTABLE types of JUDGERS. Their cousins INFPs share the same trait as well being the LOWEST and MOST UNSTABLE of PERCEIVERS. Those two types are perfect for the empty soul types like their duals estjs or estps.

What do you mean by lowest? How does being the lowest make INFJ and INFP perfect for estjs and estps?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

The T vs F divide is true. With Thinkers we're direct and can definitely upfront about things. WIth Feelers, those types of people beat around the bush while pretending to be "peacekeeper" (unless you annoy them, then they will become psycho and do erratic things.)

Among other things, it sounds like you are getting Fi and Fe mixed up.

And here's the kicker for you INFJs. INFJS are the LOWEST and MOST UNSTABLE types of JUDGERS. Their cousins INFPs share the same trait as well being the LOWEST and MOST UNSTABLE of PERCEIVERS. Those two types are perfect for the empty soul types like their duals estjs or estps.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by unstable? I can see it more so in INFp's, but not INFj's.

[crazedrat]

She just had BPD, not type related.

not so sure about that are you? seems every ENFj I've met has had BPD.


the guy who wrote the main thread is LII...

[lefty]

Well, I'm a 20 year old INTJ male, and I had been dating a 21 year old INFJ female, who I will refer to as S. Initially, it was a very sweet experience; we were very attracted to each other from the beginning due to our shared uniqueness. We are both very intelligent individuals, have similar views on most things, and make decisions in a similar fashion.

Anyway, as we became more intimate, S revealed to me some rather disturbing things. Aside from her obvious self-destructive behavior (heavy drinking, oxycodone use, cocaine use, and VERY promiscuous sexual activity), she actually told me that she's a psychopath and that she will destroy my life. At the time, I was inclined to dismiss these statements as some sort of dirty talk But as I would soon find out, she had every intention of doing so.

The more time we spent together, the more confused I became, and the more clear her malicious plan became. I suddenly found myself hanging out with S several times a week, staying up 'till dawn drinking, doing drugs and each other. When we were together all she would talk about is how amazing I am, how good I make her feel, and how she wants to see me (read: have sex with me) every day. But as soon as I would drop her off at home her attitude would completely change; she'd suddenly not want to see me, or hardly talk to me for a couple days. She would blame this on post-drinking-drug-use depression. Needless to say, this whole situation was very bad for me, as this was happening during the final month of the semester, right through finals week; when we were together, I was acting irresponsibly, and when we were apart I couldn't sleep because I was so goddamn confused.

Very long story short, I concluded that S was using me to fulfill some twisted desire or another and I was being emotionally manipulated; she's a psychopath.

And finally the point of my rant; I'm afraid I might be exhibiting psychopathic behaviors/tendencies, because I noticed I was acting similarly to S toward the end of our friendship. Are INTJ/INFJs naturally inclined to exhibit psychopathic behaviors?

I've never been really close to anyone, and everything I've ever done has been to satisfy myself, trying to be the best, as efficient as possible. It's not like I intentionally set out to hurt or manipulate people, but as an INTJ, I'm not readily aware of emotional states of people and have unintentionally hurt people; conversely, when I am "in tune" with people, I can very readily manipulate them, I just recently remembered the fact that I've manipulated people, which is disturbing, because selective memory is a hallmark of psychopathic behavior. What's more disturbing is the fact that up until this realization, I'd been making a conscious effort to minimize feelings of guilt or "sorrow" for my actions; that's not to say that I deny responsibility for my actions, I strive to make decisions that do not warrant guilt, sorrow, or regret. Furthermore, when I do make a "bad" decision (one that hurts someone), I try not to see it as "bad"; I try to see all decisions, and the situations they give rise to, for what they are, a learning experience, not "good" or "bad".

So, it seems that in my unyielding attempt to be the best person I can be, and thereby better humanity, I've unwittingly started down the path to becoming a psychopath. I don't want to hurt people, but it seems like I'm inadvertently acquiring the skills to do so.

i'd speculate that she's actually your conflict type esfp. i think conflict types if they cling to eachother will produce psychopathic behavior such as INTJ & ESFP at columbine. Ive seen other examples of it too and its very bad and people are morons for clinging to those relationship. happiness is a choice. you have to pull out. i think as an iNTJ you might find maniacal talk sexy because an ESFJ is part mastermind, in my opinion. i think you had better ditch her pronto and get your shit together.

[crazedrat]

She just had BPD, not type related.

IEIs seem to have BPD alot though, ...