MAGA Communism

[Imago Schelling]

MAGA communism is a real thing. MAGA communism basically just means Hegelianism, except they think Trump is the end of history (hmm, end of history, sounds a bit like Teilhard/Omega Point) instead of Napoleon, Hı̇tler, or Stalin.

‘A deranged fringe movement’: what is Maga communism, the online ideology platformed by Tucker Carlson? | Donald Trump | The Guardian
From Farce to Tragedy: Žižek Endorses Trump - Left Voice

slavoj.pdf

The topic of alienation plays a central role in so-called “warm” humanist Marxism. To put it briefly, humanist Marxism remains stuck within the confines of the abstract opposition of mechanism and organism, i.e., its vision of overcoming alienation remains that of the early Romantic Hegel.

Well, that's certainly an opening. Maybe Hegel got that "opposition" from Schelling, who was, you know, a natural scientist who was trying to help save Germany from irrelevancy and its infamous reaction to irrelevancy.

Between Schelling and Marx: The Hegel of Slavoj Žižek in: Historical Materialism Volume 24 Issue 2 (2016)

Just say no to Hegel.



Anti-Hegelians - Socionics - the16types.info forums

[TristanLouisino949]

MAGA communism is a real thing. MAGA communism basically just means Hegelianism, except they think Trump is the end of history (hmm, end of history, sounds a bit like Teilhard/Omega Point) instead of Napoleon, Hı̇tler, or Stalin.

‘A deranged fringe movement’: what is Maga communism, the online ideology platformed by Tucker Carlson? | Donald Trump | The Guardian
From Farce to Tragedy: Žižek Endorses Trump - Left Voice

slavoj.pdf



Well, that's certainly an opening. Maybe Hegel got that "opposition" from Schelling, who was, you know, a natural scientist who was trying to help save Germany from irrelevancy and its infamous reaction to irrelevancy.

Between Schelling and Marx: The Hegel of Slavoj Žižek in: Historical Materialism Volume 24 Issue 2 (2016)

Just say no to Hegel.



Anti-Hegelians - Socionics - the16types.info forums

hegelianism and his own work has very little and nothing to do with communism. I would say hegelianism is more similar to nationalsocialism and fascism in terms of application. Whatever trump is neither one of them; he is a litereally a conservative repubblican that is only interessed to reduce taxes and saving people get killed by fentanyl one of worst and deadly drug in the circulation

[Echo]

MAGA communism is a real thing. MAGA communism basically just means Hegelianism, except they think Trump is the end of history (hmm, end of history, sounds a bit like Teilhard/Omega Point) instead of Napoleon, Hı̇tler, or Stalin.

‘A deranged fringe movement’: what is Maga communism, the online ideology platformed by Tucker Carlson? | Donald Trump | The Guardian
From Farce to Tragedy: Žižek Endorses Trump - Left Voice

slavoj.pdf



Well, that's certainly an opening. Maybe Hegel got that "opposition" from Schelling, who was, you know, a natural scientist who was trying to help save Germany from irrelevancy and its infamous reaction to irrelevancy.

Between Schelling and Marx: The Hegel of Slavoj Žižek in: Historical Materialism Volume 24 Issue 2 (2016)

Just say no to Hegel.



Anti-Hegelians - Socionics - the16types.info forums

You’re just connecting random pseudo-intellectual buzzwords in an effort to sound authoritative, but to someone who’s actually familiar with the concepts, you sound absolutely absurd. This entire post is nonsensical. As @TristanLouisino949 said, hegelianism has nothing to do with communism, MAGA or otherwise. I’m starting to think that you’re trying to flood the forum with these posts in order to make it appear ridiculous.

[Imago Schelling]

You’re just connecting random pseudo-intellectual buzzwords in an effort to sound authoritative, but to someone who’s actually familiar with the concepts, you sound absolutely absurd. This entire post is nonsensical. As @TristanLouisino949 said, hegelianism has nothing to do with communism, MAGA or otherwise. I’m starting to think that you’re trying to flood the forum with these posts in order to make it appear ridiculous.

Hegelianism has a lot to do with communism. Have you ever read Marx, much less Žižek, whom I am critiquing? Žižek sounds absurd and that's the whole point. Marx commented on Hegel and adapted Hegel's dialectic ("dialectical materialism,") though the differences are significant and a critique of Marx is not one of Hegel and vice versa. MAGA communism clearly is its own thing and absurd, and that's literally what my OP said.


This site used to have more Žižek fans, though they've been gone for a while, and I don't think that's a coincidence for reasons the Goethe video discusses. The original post was simply stating: MAGA communism is Hegelianism, and Hegelianism is absurd. Communism and Marxism are not synonymous so no, I'm not equating Marxism and Hegelianism, even though Marxism obviously has something to do with Hegelianism.


Please stop spamming on threads without reading them in order to attempt to antagonize and try to drive people who disagree with you and write things you don't seem to understand from the site. If you've been reading the organicism threads you'd understand the significance of organicism in Marx and Hegel and what this has to do with the idea of MAGA communists such as Žižek. Essentially, fascism is the apotheosis of mechanism and "MAGA communists" such as Žižek support fascists because of their critique of organicism and adherence to neo-Hegelianism. They, themselves, say they're not Marxist, though Marx isn't all of communism anyway. Hegel wasn't communist, but many self-described communists identify as Hegelians, and that matters when analyzing their worldviews.

[Echo]

Ok fine, you really want to play this game?

Hegelianism has a lot to do with communism. Have you ever read Marx, much less Žižek, whom I am critiquing?

Yes, I have. And I will concede that my use of the phrase “nothing to do with” was an exaggeration. What I should’ve written was that hegelianism has very little to do with communism (or, at least, very little which can be considered relevant within the context of your claims). It’s true that Marx was influenced by Hegel, but Hegelianism and communism are not directly related. Marx fundamentally diverged from Hegel. Hegel’s philosophy focused on the evolution of ideas through contradiction, aiming at an abstract ideal of freedom, not material conditions. Marx, on the other hand, reinterpreted the dialectic as grounded in material reality and economic structures, meaning that while Hegel influenced Marx, their ultimate concerns and methods diverged significantly. Hegelianism doesn’t form the core of communism.

Marx commented on Hegel and adapted Hegel’s dialectic (‘dialectical materialism’), though the differences are significant and a critique of Marx is not one of Hegel and vice versa.

Yes, Marx’s approach borrowed Hegel’s dialectical framework, but dialectical materialism is not simply Hegel’s dialectic applied to materialism. Marx’s dialectic is fundamentally different, applying concrete historical analysis rather than abstract ideals. You neglect to address this core difference: Marx saw real-world, material contradictions as driving social change, not the evolution of consciousness.

MAGA communism clearly is its own thing and absurd, and that’s literally what my OP said.

Defining “MAGA communism” as Hegelianism and therefore “absurd” is oversimplifying Hegelian philosophy. Hegelianism itself isn’t inherently absurd; it takes a rigorous philosophical approach. While some aspects of Hegel’s ideas may seem paradoxical (especially if you're just skimming YouTube videos), dismissing them as “absurd” overlooks their historical and philosophical significance. I'm no fan of Hegel, but I’m not thick enough to claim that his work has no merit whatsoever.

Essentially, fascism is the apotheosis of mechanism and "MAGA communists" such as Žižek support fascists because of their critique of organicism and adherence to neo-Hegelianism.

Žižek doesn’t “support fascists”; his work is actually critical of authoritarianism, and his engagement with right-wing ideas is often ironic or satirical. If anything, one could argue that he fails to show any single consistent viewpoint. As for the “mechanism” versus “organicism” point you were trying to make (albeit clumsily), Hegel’s philosophy doesn’t lend itself easily to either term: he discusses both organic unity and mechanical structures in complex ways. And calling fascism the “apotheosis of mechanism” is an oversimplification, as fascist ideologies have historically drawn on both mechanistic and organicist rhetoric.

Hegel wasn't communist, but many self-described communists identify as Hegelians, and that matters when analyzing their worldviews.

“Many” is not “all” or even “a majority of.” While some communists may identify as Hegelians, most communism isn’t Hegelian and doesn’t follow his principles. It’s inaccurate to suggest that communism’s core has significant ties to Hegelianism simply because Marxism was initially influenced by some of it.

This site used to have more Žižek fans, though they've been gone for a while, and I don't think that's a coincidence for reasons the Goethe video discusses.

Huh, I wonder how the owner of a one-month-old account would know that unless that account happened to be an alt…

Please stop spamming on threads without reading them in order to attempt to antagonize and try to drive people who disagree with you and write things you don't seem to understand from the site.

Once again, I suggest that you familiarise yourself with the definition of spamming.

[Imago Schelling]

@Echo You completely missed every point I was making. The point I was making was that Marx diverged from Hegel. How can Žižek ditch Marx for Hegel if Marx is the same as Hegel? And yes, Hegel is absurd. People can adapt his ideas without the end product being absurd without defending Hegel. It's a genetic fallacy to say that Hegel has to be fundamentally respectable in order to defend Marx.


Additionally, Žižek has started unironically supporting Trump. That's literally what the article I posted about him and MAGA says. He used to support it "ironically" (though that led to actual support and doesn't seem that ironic,) and now he supports it unironically, and this is because Žižek's endorsement of Hegel led Žižek to become a fascist since Hegelianism is fascist. You don't need to defend Hegel to defend Marx because Marx diverged anyway, and people thinking they need to defend Hegel I'm sure is where "not real communism" as in "the Soviet Union/Mao/Pol Pot is not real communism" comes from. That should be an important fact if true.


Additionally, asserting that fascism is organicist doesn't make it true. Being collectivist does not make one organicist, since a machine is also a collective of parts, that's what for example the Borg is about. You haven't read the things you need to read or you'd understand my points.

[Echo]

@Echo You completely missed every point I was making. The point I was making was that Marx diverged from Hegel. How can Žižek ditch Marx for Hegel if Marx is the same as Hegel?

Yes, and my point was that this would invalidate your original argument. This is a paraphrase of the point you were trying to make in your original post:

MAGA communism is Hegelianism (because communism is Marxism and Marxism is Hegelianism), and Hegelianism is absurd.

So If:

• MC ＝ MAGA Communism
• C ＝ Communism
• M＝ Marxism
• H ＝ Hegelianism
• A ＝ Absurd

Then your argument is as follows:

1. “MAGA Communism is Communism”:
2. “Communism is Marxism”:
3. “Marxism is Hegelianism”:
4. “Hegelianism is absurd”:

Conclusion: “MAGA Communism is Hegelianism and Hegelianism is absurd.”

But to reach this conclusion, you need to use the transitivity of implications across statements 1, 2 and 3 to show that:

MC → A

So expressed in symbolic logic, your argument is:

(MC→ C) & (C→ M) & (M → H) & (H → A) → (MC → A)

So basically, if all these implications hold, then MAGA Communism ultimately leads to absurdity (which tbh is a redundant statement, since as a postmodern term, the absurdity is already a given, but I digress).

But then you backtracked on your statements and said:

1. “MAGA Communism is Hegelianism”:
2. “Hegelianism is absurd”:
3. “Communism and Marxism are not synonymous”:
4. “I’m not equating Marxism and Hegelianism, even though Marxism obviously has something to do with Hegelianism.”

Or:

(MC → H) & (H → A) & (C ≠ M) & (M ≠ H) & (M → H)

See the issue???? Your premises no longer form a valid argument because they no longer lead to the necessary conclusion. This is what I was saying about your posts being nonsensical. They either are either completely redundant or the conclusions do not follow the premises.

Additionally, asserting that fascism is organicist doesn't make it true. Being collectivist does not make one organicist, since a machine is also a collective of parts, that's what for example the Borg is about. You haven't read the things you need to read or you'd understand my points.

Once again, you make the mistake of assuming that agreement would naturally follow understanding. I understand your points and I disagree.

Fascism is actually closer to organicism than mechanism IMO because it emphasizes the unity, hierarchy, and “natural” () order of society, presenting a nation as an interconnected, living entity rather than a collection of distinct interchangeable parts.

[godslave]

^

[Echo]

^

Lol

[Poptart]

Why was Imago banned?

[godslave]

Why was Imago banned?

Maybe they wasn't ! (<--- that conjugation sounds weird, doesn't it ?! ). @Distance pointed out that their avatar is still showing which is supposed to indicate that the banned is not the action of any moderator but rather the user's title. It is true that I've never seen a banned member with his avatar still showing up but I'm not sure if it's a rule hence my "maybe".

[Echo]

https://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/67036-Rule-Enforcement

^

[Echo]

https://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/67036-Rule-Enforcement

^

That's how it happened. But unofficially I think it was cause they were probably coeruleum blue’s alt account.

[godslave]

https://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/67036-Rule-Enforcement

^

Thanks for the info ! As they say "You can't be too careful" !

[Echo]

Yeah if you run samples of both accounts’ posts through this tool the result is between a 95% and 100% likelihood that they were authored by the same person:

https://flintai.com/

[Braingel]

Maybe they wasn't ! (<--- that conjugation sounds weird, doesn't it ?! ). @Distance pointed out that their avatar is still showing which is supposed to indicate that the banned is not the action of any moderator but rather the user's title. It is true that I've never seen a banned member with his avatar still showing up but I'm not sure if it's a rule hence my "maybe".

Freelance announced the ban (“request fulfilled”), maybe what it isn’t is a permanent ban.. This site is old and slags so it can also be that it hasn’t converted.

[godslave]

Freelance announced the ban (“request fulfilled”), maybe what it isn’t is a permanent ban.. This site is old and slags so it can also be that it hasn’t converted.

Indeed !

[Echo]

Yeah if you run samples of both accounts’ posts through this tool the result is between a 95% and 100% likelihood that they were authored by the same person:

https://flintai.com/

Not that you really need AI to figure it out, they weren't exactly subtle lol:
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-Hegel-Himself

[necrosebud]

That's how it happened. But unofficially I think it was cause they were probably coeruleum blue’s alt account.

I don’t really know why coeruleum was banned in the first place but I did see the similarities from the get go between the two users.

[CosmicCat]

Slavoj Žižek is a Psychopath. Avoid. He's trying to make you lose.

[FreelancePoliceman]

Why was Imago banned?

She was an alt of Coeruleum's and constantly insulting people/starting pointless fights. I try to be slow to ban, but I'd already given her a warning for insulting someone else, and then her complaining about how "toxic" the place was and how we needed to be kinder to each other, etc., as if she hadn't been the cause of toxicity, was the last straw.

Also, her professed goal is to destroy the site.

[pmbohm]

She was an alt of Coeruleum's and constantly insulting people/starting pointless fights. I try to be slow to ban, but I'd already given her a warning for insulting someone else, and then her complaining about how "toxic" the place was and how we needed to be kinder to each other, etc., as if she hadn't been the cause of toxicity, was the last straw.

Also, her professed goal is to destroy the site.

How can this be the same person then? I just saw this and this person is just talking about leftism and how cool socionics is because it's based on information metabolism all the time. It also looks like you were really rude to someone who was asking people to be nice. I wish I could hear more of what this person had to say. Whoever this person was looks responsible for all the new socionics posts and looks really far-left too so it seems odd to me that this Echo person was assuming they must mean they hate Marx.

[godslave]

How can this be the same person then? I just saw this and this person is just talking about leftism and how cool socionics is because it's based on information metabolism all the time. It also looks like you were really rude to someone who was asking people to be nice. I wish I could hear more of what this person had to say. Whoever this person was looks responsible for all the new socionics posts and looks really far-left too so it seems odd to me that this Echo person was assuming they must mean they hate Marx.

I already like you pmbohm, welcome to this forum.

[pmbohm]

I would've thought this Schelling person was a Marxist based on reading his/her/xer posts, and I looked through their posts and they said they were trying to save the site. Can anyone fill me in?

[Still Alive]

She was an alt of Coeruleum's and constantly insulting people/starting pointless fights. I try to be slow to ban, but I'd already given her a warning for insulting someone else, and then her complaining about how "toxic" the place was and how we needed to be kinder to each other, etc., as if she hadn't been the cause of toxicity, was the last straw.

Also, her professed goal is to destroy the site.

Lmao it was her? I'm a bit proud for identifying her tbh, even though Imago seemed a bit different personality wise.

[Braingel]

I thought it could be that person who typed me as an IEE and was involved with me, I don’t know if that could’ve been her and I forget the user name, I can look in moving mind but am too lazy

[Still Alive]

at first I was thinking this might be another nifl/Sol situation (both are very similar but you can kind of sense that they are different people). Blue has a sort of erratic behaviour that's very recognizable. I think even if she really tried she wouldn't be able to play a role for long.

[godslave]

Lmao it was her? I'm a bit proud for identifying her tbh, even though Imago seemed a bit different personality wise.

I saw it first !



and...

[Poptart]

She was an alt of Coeruleum's and constantly insulting people/starting pointless fights. I try to be slow to ban, but I'd already given her a warning for insulting someone else, and then her complaining about how "toxic" the place was and how we needed to be kinder to each other, etc., as if she hadn't been the cause of toxicity, was the last straw.

Also, her professed goal is to destroy the site.

Fair enough. I guess I missed the part where you gave her a warning.

[Still Alive]

I saw it first !

and...

touché. I honestly didn't even notice labrador S and Imago were the same profile. to my excuse, I only recently aknowledged Imago conciously. Usually profiles, especially new ones, don't stick out to me. I'm way, way more focused on my own thoughts most of the time here. Like I didn't even notice labrador S was gone since the username obviously changed. I think you have the strategic advantage as an ethical type.

[Echo]

I already like you pmbohm, welcome to this forum.

Lol that's imago again.

[godslave]

Lol that's imago again.

Indeed. I knew it already when I made that post. It was a bit sarcastic, I have that kind of humor sometimes...