I definitely can't decide which one I am. What is the sharpest difference between them? What exactly is the difference between se role and se suggestive?
Can you help me find my type?
ILE or ILI
I definitely can't decide which one I am. What is the sharpest difference between them? What exactly is the difference between se role and se suggestive?
Can you help me find my type?
What makes you think that your type is either one of these two types and not any other ?
In every test I take, I get one of these two.
I have close friends of both types, and I can tell an ILE from an ILI in an instant, but I'd be hard-pressed to say what I see as the difference between them. I mean, the two types are Day and Night, but I can't say that one likes bananas and the other likes Coke.Originally Posted by amir
You could try resolving this dilemma through the Erotic Attitudes.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130308...otic-Attitudes
Crudely, ILIs don't seem to like people very much and they want to be chased. ILE's, on the other hand, don't seem to understand people very well and they want to be mothered.
The sharpest difference, to me: Fi mobilizing / Fe polr in ILI vs. Fe mobilizing / Fi polr in ILE. But I have extensive experience with both, and I'm Fi-dom, who expects Role Fe from my dual LIE, so where it is 'missing' in the ILI is odd for me.
Se role - they can use it as needed sort of randomly
Se suggestive - an ILI will get excited to see an object in real life, theyll be like oooh, is that (fancy kind of laptop), or is this a computer gaming chair?, i'm like huh? When food comes at a restaurant and is put before them, this 'stimulation' seems exciting to them. (Im like, huh? Yes, objects exist in space, helloooo!)
I have a loose writing style, so take it for what it's worth
Since you are convinced of being an NT, I suppose that you have spend a lot of time searching for the answer in this forum but for some reason you didn't find it right ?
Can you please tell us a) How you did you proceed ? b) How long did it take you to decide that you couldn't find the answer without help ?
I have been trying to find it for about 3 months. Despite reading all the explanations, I could not understand the difference between Fi and Fe that can be seen from the outside.
Watch lots of videos of both types
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Do you think the universe is more likely to be the mind of God/higher entity or do you think it's rather an illusion/computer simulation/experiment?
Also, what's your relation to games and your general life, and how do you differenciate them? Do you tend to see some meaning behind events or would you rather see parallels than actual meanings/truths/archetypes?
Last edited by BrainlessSquid; 08-27-2024 at 06:53 PM.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
In socionics Model A, Information Elements are detectable only via semantics (read this twice please !). Each information element has its "vocabulary" what is called in linguistics "lexeme" (read this). You have to learn the lexical field of each information element in order to identify them more clearly, and that my friend is the name of the game. It takes a whole lot of time and experience.
Important :
Introversion : Information about the relations between objects
Extraversion : Information about the objects themselves.
That said :
Emotion aspect, E (Fe) - “Emotions” (“ethics of emotions”) - an informational aspect that reflects a person's perception of the essence of the states of objects - other people, real or virtual objects; from a subjective point of view, the essence of the states of objects has an “energetic” meaning, which is expressed in the categories of positive or negative emotions, more or less energetic activity, decline or rise of a certain energy, and so on.
“Relations” aspect, R (Fi) - “Relations” (“ethics of relations”) - an informational aspect that reflects a person's perception of the relations (ratio) of the essences of states of people, real or virtual objects, which from a subjective point of view has the meaning of the relation between actual or potential “energetic” states; semantically, the relation between the essences of states is expressed by various kinds of specifications of the generalized category “relation to someone, to something”.
Source : http://socionicasys.org/teorija/po-e...-potok/aspekty
Fe is about Emotions, your (that of the subject) or that of people. It's about what we feel inside and the words we use to express it (love, fear, happyness, laughters etc..).
Fi is information about the relation between emotional states of people /animals between them and/or between the subject and any object.
Person A like/dislikes love/hate Person B - The true nature of relationships between people (for instance noticing without any other clues that this man and this other man are lovers) - diplomacy - Ethics or rapports between people ( for instance : It is bad for a man to cheat on his wife ) etc...
As you can see Fi being an Introverted element it needs at least two objects since all introverted element brings information about the relation between objects (of course that could include "objects" from the inner world i.e. imagined / fantasised (e.g. fictional characters)).
Lack is the Muse of all Poets
I cannot conceive of the universe being the mind of God, but it is much more understandable that it is an illusion. We have choices in games, but I don't think we choose what we do in life. If we could see all the variables, we would know where everything would end up. I don't think the events have any meaning but the events always repeat themselves, only the names change.
What do you mean by "we don't choose what we do in life"?
You seem to value Ne over Ni, but it doesn't seem clear/differentiated enough for ILE, because Ne is more about you choosing/not settling than being led by fate..
Do you have a stable point of view/reference or do you keep changing your perspective and trying and experimenting new angles?
You getting constant XNTP indicates that you are perceiving type indeed, so we have Si, Ni and Se (even though you seem to value Ne over Ni), but I'd rule out Ne/Se as a base function.
Also your thinking seems somewhat causal-deterministic.. but unfortunately it's impossible to know all the variables because they are infinite. But we can bet (that's where intuition comes) based on perceived patterns like you said.
I'm getting ISTp vibes from you, but I've learned not to be too hurried on that matter.
By the way, one of the most outstanding differences between Se role vs suggestive is that Se role is almost fully conscious in the average adult, whereas Se suggestive tends to be an unconscious weak spot or some sort of mental holiday..
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
If this definition were true, it would be funny to see a case when someone actively shows Fe while sitting all alone.In socionics Model A, Information Elements are detectable only via semantics (read this twice please !). Each information element has its "vocabulary" what is called in linguistics "lexeme" (read this). You have to learn the lexical field of each information element in order to identify them more clearly, and that my friend is the name of the game. It takes a whole lot of time and experience.
Important :
Introversion : Information about the relations between objects
Extraversion : Information about the objects themselves.
That said :
Source : http://socionicasys.org/teorija/po-e...-potok/aspekty
Fe is about Emotions, your (that of the subject) or that of people. It's about what we feel inside and the words we use to express it (love, fear, happyness, laughters etc..).
Fi is information about the relation between emotional states of people /animals between them and/or between the subject and any object.
Person A like/dislikes love/hate Person B - The true nature of relationships between people (for instance noticing without any other clues that this man and this other man are lovers) - diplomacy - Ethics or rapports between people ( for instance : It is bad for a man to cheat on his wife ) etc...
As you can see Fi being an Introverted element it needs at least two objects since all introverted element brings information about the relation between objects (of course that could include "objects" from the inner world i.e. imagined / fantasised (e.g. fictional characters)).
I mean I don't actually choose the things I do, I find myself doing them.I almost never change my perspective about anything. I totally believe in fate by the way.
Last edited by amir; 08-27-2024 at 11:05 PM.
amir, what is it that you are after in life, or what makes you complete?
How do you view people: asset, neutral, or liability?
How good are you at reading emotions and do you work into that or away from it?
Thoughts?
Black & white is a shallow divide ∕∕division is the color that multipliesx
Taking things at face value is good only for a spell⛧
Abstract builds a soul, a house can never become a home without it ♀
A little better makes better more>
♦♦
I'm not after anything, I feel complete every second.
Definitely asset.
I think I can read emotions but if they're not my emotions I don't care. And if it matters, I don't feel any sense of belonging to anything.
Are you questioning the veracity of soooociiiiiooooooniiicsssss ???!!
Yeah, you can rule out ILE.
For now, I'd say IxTp. But let's see deeper from your other answers
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
T over F
P over J
Black & white is a shallow divide ∕∕division is the color that multipliesx
Taking things at face value is good only for a spell⛧
Abstract builds a soul, a house can never become a home without it ♀
A little better makes better more>
♦♦
I suspect 1D Fe for you amir. You are not receptive to "Fe" humour and you probably misunderstood the overall "tone" of my posts about Fe - Fi. I suspect that you thought my "tone" was condescending or something (I can assure that It was not !), you didn't like it that I can tell. You didn't even bother to respond to that post which I concocted with patience and love especially for you...
The universe is an illusion ? How so ? (I suspect that you actually believe in God and that the Universe is just some kind of wallpaper or decoration in the visible sky)
There is some Ni here but it seems a bit unusual and slightly cryptic.We have choices in games, but I don't think we choose what we do in life. If we could see all the variables, we would know where everything would end up. I don't think the events have any meaning but the events always repeat themselves, only the names change.
What do you mean by "I don't care" ?I think I can read emotions but if they're not my emotions I don't care. And if it matters, I don't feel any sense of belonging to anything.
This reminds me of two important questions I forgot to ask you :
Have you ever being diagnosed with a mental health issue ?
How old are you ?
Lack is the Muse of all Poets
OP is reserved in type.
And sparse in his language usage forays , not much to type with, and thinking that it is, puts it more in Fi IT land.
ILE
Black & white is a shallow divide ∕∕division is the color that multipliesx
Taking things at face value is good only for a spell⛧
Abstract builds a soul, a house can never become a home without it ♀
A little better makes better more>
♦♦
Actually it is not exactly like that. Thanks for writing but after reading your answer I couldn't decide which one to go with. I didn't want to prolong the subject that I don't understand.I suspect 1D Fe for you amir. You are not receptive to "Fe" humour and you probably misunderstood the overall "tone" of my posts about Fe - Fi. I suspect that you thought my "tone" was condescending or something (I can assure that It was not !), you didn't like it that I can tell
The universe is an illusion ? How so ? (I suspect that you actually believe in God and that the Universe is just some kind of wallpaper or decoration in the visible sky
There is some Ni here but it seems a bit unusual and slightly cryptic.
What do you mean by "I don't care" ?
This reminds me of two important questions I forgot to ask you :
Have you ever being diagnosed with a mental health issue ?
How old are you ?
I don't believe in God. Things that happen outside my perspective don't seem real to me, and after I die, things in my immediate environment will cease to be real, so the possibility that the life I'm living now is an illusion is more logical than other possibilities.
The feelings that people don't show are not important to me. Everyone has their own feelings, their own problems. As long as they laugh at me, it doesn't bother me what they feel inside. I don't like people who show discomfort on their faces.
adhd and 23
and thanks again for the response
Fair enough !
Okay. I can understand that you don't believe in God, however the red part seems like some kind of dissociated logic. Imho, it's not healthy to think something like that and I suspect that you are rationalizing. There is a deeper, maybe unconscious reason for this thinking pattern that is worth exploring.I don't believe in God. Things that happen outside my perspective don't seem real to me, and after I die, things in my immediate environment will cease to be real, so the possibility that the life I'm living now is an illusion is more logical than other possibilities.
Thank for the clarification. Indeed, it's more comfortable to laugh with people that to be laughed at. Nobody likes to be laughed at in the area of their weak functions. We have to find ways to laugh at ourselves too as a way of coping with the fact that nobody is perfect and that we all have our own strength and weakness.The feelings that people don't show are not important to me. Everyone has their own feelings, their own problems. As long as they laugh at me, it doesn't bother me what they feel inside. I don't like people who show discomfort on their faces.
Thank you for sharing.adhd and 23
You're very welcome, thank you for answering !and thanks again for the response
Lack is the Muse of all Poets
I wrote that explanation about the fact that there is no logical connotation for us to be inside God's brain, but that it is somewhat understandable for us to be inside an illusion. I don't understand why it seemed like a dissociated logic to you.
Based on what I've written so far, what do you think my type is?
I don't understand where that "inside God's Brain" idea comes from.I am aware of the "Universe is a Hologram / Simulation" theories, and I am aware that the objective reality is but a partial construct of the psyche (or consciousness if you prefer) but why and to whom would the idea of living inside an illusion would be more understandable in the absolute ? What about the majority (obviously) of people living in reality and accepting it as they perceive and sense it ?
What seems like a dissociation is the fact that you favored the possibility of your life (or the life you are living) being an illusion over the alternative. From a strict psychological point of view that would be a dissociation because we, as human being have to integrate at least a certain objectivity regarding the reality of the world we are living in. Jung said, if one is unconscious of something that ought to be conscious then one is dissociated. You see, as a species it in our nature to accept the reality or to be more precise, our natural environment as we perceive it through our sensory perceptions and that should prevail over any theory regardless of our type.
It's too soon to say (my taping skills are not very sharp !) but I must say that you made the process of discovering it very interesting indeed. I suspect strong Introverted thinking and Intuition ; Thinking type because of manifestly weak Feeling and introversion and intuition because of the nature of our conversation so far.Based on what I've written so far, what do you think my type is?
Lack is the Muse of all Poets
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