Your Type and Traumatic Reactions of your own

[Braingel]

Today got me really thinking on the influence Vladimir had on myself.. Ngl that it really bothers me people would think he’s my dual or semi dual.. But that’s not what this thread is about.. He is definitely the closest relation I’ve had that could classify as healthfully “parental”.. And I had wanted to also focus on a separate categorization of ITR, because in all honesty, the way that people focus on ITR isn’t even reflective of how it can potentially take form relative to health or even factors beyond.

I’ve not had a maternal influence as of yet at this level of health.. Had I both a healthy maternal and paternal ignorance (Vap) as a teen, I wonder if it would’ve balanced me furthermore and made me more stable. Vap helped me stabilize a bit, but it was pressure in one part of the boat, there’s another part that never had an anchoring, so whilst one dock anchored in black, there was a means left open where I still can sway.

In terms parental figures I’ve had

Biological father SLE
Biological mother ESE
Paternal online figure LII

I guess I am bothered, partially because I hate model G’s conception of EIE, and I also just feel that people malign my essence and type my traumatic reactions and my mental illness (cptsd) as eie.. I also don’t like how common eie is typed, admittedly. But yeah the ways people go about it often isn’t even in good faith and it’s a spite typing for my emotional reactions that are complex ptsd emotional flashbacks. Plus, EIE is the most trashed type in this forum.. You’ve even seen people like Adam strange say that 70% of eie’s aren’t good people and the other 30% can be.. I believe it’s destructive to focus on typology like that..

[Braingel]

Btw I do believe some people can experience intense bullying

it can be the nature of mental health hospitals, things like group homes

and just kids can be so vicious. I had a friend (IEI) who got told she was “ugly” (sx first too) but many people, including guys, over several years from what I remember, middle school and high school. I don’t see her that way at all, anyways she was also able to find what she was looking for, but first had to work on herself

Yes, I am autistic, so I faced immense bullying. It is annoying that I wasn’t believed in that whole drama, very annoying and very triggering. I mean, I got put in a total of 12 schools staring from preschool to 12th grade (dropped out in 12th). I got put in 8 youth sports (my mom made me do a 9th that was her cycling class at a fitness club, but I was the only teenager).. And I have been in 3 childhood residential facilities, I faced bullying in them all, and I faced emotional abuse and neglect from adult staff in one of them.

I faced bullying in 11/12 of my schools. But severe bullying in only three of them (as in extreme physical violence and the incidence with the plotting kill when I was 13 that resulted in a juvenile record on the offender and permanent school expel from that Catholic school or any of its church and he got a restraining order).

The guy that choked literally apologized for how “everyone” treated me https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...252d8e515fc41&
He would’ve been apologizing on behalf of the elementary and middle school I shared with him

[necrosebud]

You know the facts you have experienced them

all I’ll say there are others too

[Braingel]

Yeah it’s my own thing to work on, but dealing with 15+ years of invalidation and some others with gaslighting and being social x image makes it quite tough not being believed and others denying my emotional pain and experience

[necrosebud]

Some people maybe struggle with perceptiveness

no need to internalize it

[necrosebud]

I believe you
habe no reason not to

[Braingel]

Apart of where things begin to get toxic with typology is how others will start a confirmation bias and assume someone’s testimony is dishonest, because they associate those types with dishonesty, like EIE and like SEE, another example would’ve been when I was becoming physically ill with rheumatoid arthritis…. in 2022.. People were like “Si brake! si brake!” For my reactions to becoming physically sick and no one believing me I’m sick, because rheumatoid arthritis wasn’t even being considered and it’s not something people develop in youth.. It is a middle aged condition.

Reminds me of how no one believed me about my childhood because of my bpd diagnosis I received at 17.

[necrosebud]

People online can’t see much of what you’ve experienced
and I mean despite videos

[Braingel]

Like that whole “EIE sexual harassment thread” is bs and destructive use of typology. You can’t get annoyed or blame a person for being angry and defensive over being typed as an eie when that shit occurs. It’s like 60% of people die EIE as some pejorative to hate on a person and make them out as a shitty, histrionic person.

It is true that histrionic personality disorder is probably more prevalent in beta NF’s and in SEE, but this is as far as sexual harassment would go to typology.. (Histrionic PD is linked to inappropriate sexual expression).

In model G, people see EIE as:

-Obnoxious mentor
-histrionic whose accounts can’t be trusted
-Nazi-like
-Sexual harasser
-cannot keep secrets

There is nothing emphasized about the eie that is good other than it’s an intelligent type… It is primarily an insult typing and then others often harass or make fun of a person for not accepting that typing, even if it is correct. I genuinely don’t believe it is correct on my own case, there are quite a few things that don’t befit, but I won’t get into them here.

[Braingel]

Journal entry I wrote..
I’ve to say that having autism in this world is quite a difficulty.


Though my cognition has no impair (beyond my inability to focus at times), I have the mildest, most subtle impairs that in the right settings amass crippling disability.
Yes, there is a relativity to my deficits, for in settings some, there is no handicap… But in ones where social development requires at the highest level, I am prone in a making mistake……
Less obvious social things get me at some times, aware I have holes in my social ability, but not always knowing where, and so I fall into the mistakes and their impact has varying levels of forgiveness.


Online, others are lesser generous in their speculations of myself because they don’t know me… They can’t always perceive my context and how it unfolds, thereof malign my intent or assume me in ways afar from my own essence. This is one of reasons many, invalidation wounds me as deeply it does. The parental wounds jabbed in my first years of existence have made their crack, to where they have formed as big a hole of my more serious traumas with them and others.. The fault lines here also have more nuance and crack potential (and thus magnitude of my reactions), they didn’t incise a clean-cut of my age and development other traumas had struck me in.
And it isn’t as if this world cares for my pain, which for, I grieve.


Most are unwilling give me— extend me their compassion and empathy I need for heal. It is the antibiotic needed for an emotional hypothermia I’ve developed, and have in it bouts of pneumonia.


I cough and bleed and others for this of me punish, of me condemn. Not realizing it a sickness of heart and mind. Sometimes the fits (of cough) are violent and disturb others, to where I’ve viewed poorly and have been assumed by some false, mistaking my coughs intentional and character defect..


I just need this pneumonia to go away.
I do not want sicken furthermore..


I am sick out of never having had warmth from another. Not in person, I’ve had a few hold me in *concept*.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

Yes, I am autistic, so I faced immense bullying. It is annoying that I wasn’t believed in that whole drama, very annoying and very triggering. I mean, I got put in a total of 12 schools staring from preschool to 12th grade (dropped out in 12th). I got put in 8 youth sports (my mom made me do a 9th that was her cycling class at a fitness club, but I was the only teenager).. And I have been in 3 childhood residential facilities, I faced bullying in them all, and I faced emotional abuse and neglect from adult staff in one of them.

I faced bullying in 11/12 of my schools. But severe bullying in only three of them (as in extreme physical violence and the incidence with the plotting kill when I was 13 that resulted in a juvenile record on the offender and permanent school expel from that Catholic school or any of its church and he got a restraining order).

The guy that choked literally apologized for how “everyone” treated me https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...252d8e515fc41&
He would’ve been apologizing on behalf of the elementary and middle school I shared with him

oh on behalf. some ENFJ who also participated in bullying my INxP friend would give himself to others motions and by those of his parents. maybe this guy u;re telling me about is a coward too. but the EIE im talking about was pisces

[necrosebud]

In hindsight one of the reasons you seem very invested might be the social instinct sort of going beyond the personal and holding social ideals you feel strongly about

which I also relate to, to a degree

[Braingel]

In hindsight one of the reasons you seem very invested might be the social instinct sort of going beyond the personal and holding social ideals you feel strongly about

which I also relate to, to a degree

This would be correct. As I said, being social X image combined, makes it extremely hard to not take to heart (pun sort of intended) when I face invalidation or emotional dismissal…

The temperament I was born with was easily the least suited for the kind of environment I was raised within.. Other strategies would’ve cut off, rejected their own need and emotions, looked to build support from others and be adept in getting this, found ways to replace of focus… But those temperaments would’ve had other weaknesses and given how much trauma I’ve had, they likely would’ve developed their own. For instance, a cut off strategy would’ve had a great propensity towards sociopathy…. A person looking for social supports would’ve developed immense anxiety and attachment issues and not be able stand in emotion or thought on their own.. It just so happens that emotional abuse is the central theme of my childhood, from father especially and from peers. What is very interesting is that both Oscar Ichazo and Claudio Naranjo predict this in enneagram type 4….

I personally cried when I read the Naranjo 4 father dynamic and I simultaneously felt validated. I had even anticipated before I read it, that an 8 core father may have a hand in the cultivation of a 1D Se 4 core daughter or sensitive son.

My friend who accessed Oscar Ichazo showed me the 4, and how even I’d remain a core 4 in classical Ichazo (which is quite rare to transfer over).. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...d6ccad3189796&

> *The Reasoner, point 4, is fixated in the Intellectual Domain of the Living Group. Reasoners start with a perceived traumatic relationship with a father who is seen as formidable, distant, enigmatic, critical, and unpredictably willful. Reasoners want to understand and decipher the mystery of this father who represents the world at large. A deep sense of unpredictability in relation to the father figure becomes generalized, and Reasoners try to understand their relation to others whom they also consider critical, aloof and innately unpredictable. Reasoners internalize their process by imagining scenes and conversations and, more than anything, by attempting to find the causes for why people do things. Their analysis of causes and the etiology of everything, which includes each one of their own processes, makes them develop powerful intellects and vivid imaginations. This constant investigation can lead to excess and overanalyzing, which accounts for why their reasons and analyses fail and for their many misconceptions when criticizing others. Regardless of the depth of their knowledge, Reasoners still do not know how to relate to people. Others always seem like the incompre-hensible, enigmatic, distant, and unpredictable figure of the aloof and critical father.*

I am going have to locate my Character and Neurosis book to cite the childhood of 4… As by Naranjo’s clinical observations..

It is quite common for “self-defeating” women to have had a mother of the same character along with a weak father. Also I have noticed more sadistic fathers (ennea-type VIII) in the histories of type IV’s than any other except for type VIII itself. In such instances, of course, the sado-masochistic relation with the parent of the opposite sex contributed to the crystallization of the overall personality style.

-p. 124 Character and Neurosis

[necrosebud]

I mean even when you understand the personal misunderstanding stuff seemingly you are still concerned about the general phenomenon of X (EIEs being histrionic idea for instance) and that’s what I meant by going beyond the personal and holding onto the personal or inciting the personal almost as a proxy for the phenomenon in general

[Braingel]

I personally believe what I quoted of Naranjo… That a 1D Se INFx who has high sensitivity will turn into a 4 core. (Meaning they’d have an unhealthy, emotionally sadistic and critical father). A higher dimensionality Se daughter or son, would likely turn into a core 8 their own self, or if not, a counter phobic 6..

The Riso Hudson 4 core also fits myself, it entails a child who felt they couldn’t connect/relate with either parental figure, which was myself, perhaps with autism predisposing of this. I couldn’t with my peers, either.

I personally believe my mother has a hand in making me a 4 as well, but not as strongly as my father or my inherent sensitive temperament. 2 cores when unhealthy, will invalidate negative emotions and try reframe them positively, which my mother does, and will invalidate negative experiences or even go to lengths of blackmail at an 8 line, which has done, my mother… Because of their prideful preservation in having be viewed at all times as lovable. It doesn’t help in progressive enneagram, my mother would be a social first and 3 wing— making her even more trying hold unto this by any mean necessary. She has literally said before, as I had told Nemo/Muira, that I would have go over her dead body for others to know about our family dysfunction, and she goes to great lengths to conceal it, even when she discovered myself online…

Whilst estranged from my parents and peers, the Naranjo and Ichazo dynamic gets it more accurate in that my father had the most hand in my neurosis and I’ve always felt more affected by him, and when eleven or twelve, I told other girls my father doesn’t love me. I never said this of mother.

I am one of the most sensitive people I know on all domains— emotional, physical and spiritual.

[necrosebud]

Didn’t you also say 17 year age gap too

theres a power difference I would think. Idk if still applies, he might have sway over her possibly, as someone you might look upto/admire might

Or I could be wrong

[Braingel]

Didn’t you also say 17 year age gap too

theres a power difference I would think. Idk if still applies, he might have sway over her possibly, as someone you might look upto/admire might

Or I could be wrong

Mhm, my parents married at 25 (mom) and 42 (dad). Whilst 25 is an adult for most people, I don’t think it’s great to marry a person after 6 weeks like they did, and with that big of a gap especially, and she was so dumb, she went off to his country with him after two weeks. So it should still be scrutinized, and especially because they both had their own childhood baggage (which a person who is willing go into this position probably does to begin with). Arguably for unprocessed childhood abuse cases with needs never having been addressed, it is even too young to marry and the twenties shouldn’t even really be a time for marriage in that case unless by absolute necessity. People who are abused as children don’t develop normally either, or have had the nutrients needed to ensure they see to growth and development, so you’ve stunted profiles who aren’t even always adults by the time most are.

I had vowed to never proceed this footstep, but I am in love with a foreigner (and felt he would marry me like instantaneously), but I wouldn’t go right into his house or with him.. I would take months and build it slower irl.

[Braingel]

My father you can say was a more developed adult, but he never bothered to use his twenties— the time I see, to process childhood abuse if intervention wasn’t given beforehand, and I believe this had a role in why his abusive behaviors fused. Had he gotten intervention say, from 20-29, he might have been a different person by his inherent potentials of health and have raised my sister and I better, I probably could be a published poet or near published poet in that case, but it doesn’t work like this, and I have had my own life lessons and continue to have them with my dysfunctional family dynamic. Though, it is hard to live and reverse life with this and being Neuro-atypical… And having not had the luxury of social experiences much beyond facing bullying and harassment irl.

Had he done this, he could’ve also healed my mother. Well, helped her to have healed, all healing ultimately comes from within. He could’ve facilitated some space and time and compassion.

What needs in order heal, regardless of who one is, they just must manifest different approaches relative to their own.

My mother always said she married him like that, because she “needed someone more mature”. And she was trying get out of her family..

[necrosebud]

I meant that it’s possible her behavior is the result of his possible manipulative/influence over her

[Braingel]

I meant that it’s possible her behavior is the result of his possible manipulative/influence over her

I cannot comment overly much on the dynamic between my mother and father in terms of their own schemas interacting outside of it with how they enable one another (because I’ve distanced my myself a lot from them in spite of here living, and because my mother I didn’t see much around my father, as he was with me at his volleyball club trying drill me and then when we went on vacations to Hawaii and the likes, I was out in kids clubs as they went out).. What I can say is that my mother submits to him, and she gives in, which makes more harmony between they. She lets him decide and even when he made her drive home drunk once from a wedding of my their friend because he didn’t wanna drive, she gave in and he just watched her.

My mother once complained that a woman in a Ralph’s (grocery store) confronted her when my father was yelling at her in public and she had told her, “You really gonna let your husband talk to you like that?” My mother always vents everything.. She said she didn’t like that woman prying in her own business.

[Braingel]

When I say I have distanced myself, I mean that my sleep is aligned in a way where I avoid them significantly, on days I don’t have be at my art day program (for developmental disabilities) and I spend a lot of time in the jacuzzi at a fitness club or in coffee shops. I have also sort of intellectualized them as you may say, but my core faults in my line, when there is even an ounce of pressure, they result in magnitudes of emotion..

When I was on a trip with them in a van two years ago, coming three, I immediately retorted into a journal as I analyzed family dynamics going on in the enneagram.. I wrote about it on the 16T server when it happened.. I wasn’t involved emotionally in that, it was a dynamic between my mother and sister and my father, my father felt victimized. I may try find that journal and write it out, or the post.

[Braingel]

oh on behalf. some ENFJ who also participated in bullying my INxP friend would give himself to others motions and by those of his parents. maybe this guy u;re telling me about is a coward too. but the EIE im talking about was pisces

I’ll show you the guy who choked me and apologized for it on Facebook messenger.. I am actually convinced he’s an IEE. I will show you other bullies if I find their social media.. I have tried finding George, the boy who had plotted to take my life as a “joke” with very, very vivid ways and in strict detail, but I am pretty convinced George was an LSI. I’d have to find him in my St. Catherine year book if they even had put him in there, because he got expelled from the school, he may not even be in there.

It is true the majority of people that bullied me in school and in sports are sensors… Wyatt is the only intuitive that comes to mind in having bullied myself. Online, I’ve been bullied and harassed by quite a few intuitive types. There are probably more intuitive than Wyatt, they just don’t come to mind, as the primary ones other than Wyatt are sensoric.

Most of them being sensors probably has a do in my parents having put me in 8 sports and then many of the people in youth homes were former gang members and these tend attract 4D Se (or even 3D or maybe occasionally an eie). The volition lack of intuitive may predispose their being online more, even with myself.. But I just also was never put into any intuitive domains by my 4D Se parents.

[pzombieLIT]

I don't really want to get too into stuff, but I'll admit this past year has been really crazy. I've been taking a break from everyone, even working, and focusing on mental health and dealing with what I'd like to call "Rick and Morty Jerry issues" and I'm surprised I didn't deal with my shit earlier in life. But I'm lucky, I have the financial means to do this. Most people don't.

I almost feel bad for people that have to work all the time or are so engrossed in their lives and society, they don't get a chance to even be aware of their own negative emotions and feelings they've accumulated over the years. There was this video I watched yesterday - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtDmbZ3i1yc I thought it was interesting. She ended up killing herself, but reading the comments, something struck me

So where is the part when she went insane? It`s more likely she came to realization that this world and people are insane.

That. She realized that she could do whatever she wanted in the cave - read, paint, be creative, philosophical. She had a lot of time to think what makes us happy and fulfilled.
And then she returned to a world where basically everyone just judges you about work. How much you work, how much you earn, how much you spend...nothing about if your life is happy or fulfilled anymore. This is the true madness.

fuck!

[necrosebud]

This is in no way meant to invalidate the intensity and impact of many different sources of trauma, bullying and abuse that you have experienced but - do you think there’s different parts to the experience of trauma, for anyone really? One being of course the experience of the event itself and second perhaps the role we let it play, the meaning we give, all the sort of peripheral to the core thing

[Charus]

My own response to my questionnaire—

Note: I have to go, so I will make a continuation post later on…



Types of trauma:


1) Primary emotional abuse and emotional neglect (parental)
2) Isolated incidences of physical abuse (parental, cousin, bullying physical assaults by peers)
3) Isolated sexual assault (mother’s friend, stranger)
4) Chronic inappropriate sexual boundary violated by father up to age 15 (“love biting”, but never my breasts or genital. But my nubile body, including buttocks and thighs)
5) School bullying primary
6) Medicated food by mother for a few months with Lexapro
7) Taken out of house in midst of night by youth transporters (age recently turnt 16)
8) chronic online harassment
9) chronic mental health stigma towards borderline personality disorder
10) Secondary emotional abuse from youth caregiver (facility called Cathedral Home for Children with staff)
11) Chronically ill sister
12) Primary and secondary (extended) family dysfunction: abuse, alcoholism, criminality at felon level, power imbalance dynamic, breech of boundaries, meth use (extended)
13) psychiatric inpatients

My self-types:

Western socionics: IEI
Classical Socionics: EII
MBTI: INFP
John Beebe: INFP
Oscar Ichazo 4, 479
Claudio Naranjo: Social 4
RH: social 4w5
modern tritype: 461
Big 5: RLUE/AI

Duration of trauma:

School bullying: kindergarten to eleventh grade, isolated incidences in 12th and I dropped out

Emotional abuse: around 16-17 years (so I tend say 15+ years, because I can’t remember the exact date)

Physical abuse: happened in isolated episodes throughout childhood, hard to pin a duration
Father’s inappropriate biting boundary: infancy to fifteen. I learnt from my mother, who normalized the behavior, that he did it to me as a baby, which wasn’t as weird admittedly, it’s weird it happened in my pubescent time

Online harassment: around 6 1/2 years

Regular stigma: around 3-4 years


More specific in types of abuse:
Emotional: Family— name calling (“worthless piece of shit”, “stupid girl”, “dumbass”, “mother fucker”, “bitch”, “cunt”), gaslighting (accusing me of having “hallucinated” my molest and physical abuse seconds after I was hit. I’ve never hallucinated in my life), terrorizing threats (speeding and threatening crash car, faking me out with remotes and standing out door and threatening harm me and standing in my face with an object, threatening break it on my head), favoritism with mother saying sister is favorite child and double standards (mother punishing me for my reactions to my sister’s bullying, including sexual harassment and threatening me with psych ward and police).. Blackmail, including out of reporting and guilt tripping with child protective services with my sister’s physical illnesses and how she needs medical care, when I was 17
Facility staff: name calling (“snot”, spoilt princess”), therapist broke my confidentiality to other girls like me walking naked in front of parents (my parents told the therapist that, and well.. I learnt do that because of father’s love biting and my mother also being naked sometimes), therapist threatening to put me in a psych ward if I cried and she knew how much psych wards scared myself.. Never feeling like I can tell her anything, taking me back from a public outing for crying in public and my make up away and yelling at me in car for crying.

Physical: Father— Hair pull, pull and shake me by hair (once), spankings with hands and wooden spoons, pinning me down, biting is physical/sexual, slapping.. Mother: hit with back brace of my sister’s, spankings, pinching and grabbing.. Wyatt (peer): isolated incidence of choking, Raquel’s (peer), whipping me with a belt and placing a beetle in my ear (in facility), Brittany (peer): chronically pinched my arms in girl’s locker room at Nadadore’s swim team.. For maybe 2 years, Kiani (peer) isolated incidence of slapping me, cousin Chelsea: isolated incidence of hitting me whilst she was drunk when I was 14 and she, 21

Other notable bullying: George plotted take my life at age 13 and got expelled from the catholic school and a juice record and restraining order, locked in a bathroom for the duration of summer camp break when I was 11, social media post when I was 12 that spread to other schools and those girls got in huge trouble.. Had my backpack taken numerous times whilst I was in a lunchline and not attending my backpack, and it was found in the drinking fountain drenched and soaked.. Age 7: girls tried blame me for a girl’s bloody nose that I didn’t do..

Jesus christ, what a bunch of literal scumbags, hope they rot in hell

[Charus]

I generaly do not like talking about trauma, because it brings my weaknesses into visibility by other people, and you can't trust other people easily. I'n my case, the world is Dog eat Dog, and you have to build strong defenses in order to survive the battlefield, It's a game of the mind, those who are clever will be able to get out of any situation with ease, and intelligently navigate life.

To be honest, I am not up to fill an entire questionnaire, so I gonna speak in my own words instead.

My childhood self was like every typical kid; I was naive, adventurious and very curious individual, albeit oblivious to the world's harshest realities. Back when I was only 3 years old, my mother divorced from my Father, so I had to live with only a single Father figure. Overall my Father wanted the best for me, though there are moments where he was harsh and hard on me. I always assumed that my Father was either an Enneagram 1 or 6 core, and being an ISTJ in MBTI. I know this, because my Father always wanted to teach me about the harsh reality of the world, and wanted to help me to navigate it. When I was young, I would get scared from Father shouting at me loudly, but when I grew up, I eventualy managed to stand for myself and Fight back, it was a love-hate relationship with my Father, on one hand we had lots of Fights over things we disagreed, on the other hand we we're the most closest to each other and I've learned many things from my Father, even if It's harsh.

In school I always used to go to a special education class, which to this day I still dont know why I was put on special education. This thought made me upset because they think I am some sort of inadequate weakling, which made me very defiant towards authority.

Elementary school was a very difficult period for me, because the teachers we're literal abusive scumbags, especialy the Teacher's assistant, who was an annoying, loud and angry fat woman who liked to yell at others and punish unfairly. I didn't allow myself to be walked over, so everytime things happened with my Teachers, I always acted defiantly towards them, because I always felt like they we're trying to control me or pin me down, this in general made me a very defensive individual.

Thankfully middleschool and highschool we're better, I've got along with the teachers much better, although there we're still isolated incidents where the teachers and authority figures perceived me as aggressive and defiant in my behaviour.

On the internet, boy oh boy, I've used to get in lots of arguments with others, especialy because the Internet houses lots of douchebags who speak the most stupid shit ever to get a reaction out of others, sometimes I had to come out and call out of their bullshit.

MBTI: INTJ
Sociotype: ILI
Enneagram: 5w6 so/sx
Tritype: 538, or 584.
OCEAN: RLOEI.
Temperament: Melancholic-Choleric.

My general approach to life has always been to rely on myself, on my abilities and my own will and strength, so that I can be self-sufficient and be confident in my own abilities, the world is a dog eat dog world, so you have to cleverly think and strategise your moves if you wan't to survive.