On my real type (EII)— Aushura, Beebe

[Braingel]

So, I had actually initially started off typing myself as an EII when I first got into socionics, and I was correct, but not for the model that I was under, which threw me off from accurately self-typing. I would be an EII by classical standard, with mental Fi, Ne, Ti and Se, and vital Ni, Si Te and Ni.


In world socionics society, it would be an impossibility for me to be an EII, because of how Fe ignoring in that model is about keeping to oneself and avoiding expression and dramatic display, and an EII actively seeks to be pragmatic, seeking out and stimulating by Te. An IEI in classical aushura is actually more Te cognizant, because it has Te in a mental perfection spot (base and polr), and an eii in classical may be more aligned with a WSS IEI, because of TiSe super ego making great aspirations towards of this and fitting “Quadra values”, and the Te wouldn’t be as “valued”, because it would be a vital, unconscious function.


I am highly cognizant of my emotional distance between objects, and I am gifted in perceiving underlying properties and interworkings of things, which would be Ne in this model (is more Ni in modern, another point towards EII being closer to the modern idea of IEI).. I fixate on the placement of things and their appearances, and have a rigid, immature view of these means. I thought that living in a prettier area could solve all my problems and blamed a lack of beauty and nature for my some of my unhappiness. In spite of my fixation on Se aesthetics, I cannot actually well-understand this element and try and replace it with the deeper workings of their physical properties and their soul qualities.. I blame my issues on TiSe things. It was actually a user named Capitan, who pointed out my TiSe super ego:https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...47d6beb3318c0&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...265f77a577acf&

It is partially of why I have limited myself with my abuse situation. Once this was pointed, I rapidly realized a lot of things I had said of myself and of other things are quite TiSe super ego… I noticed a lot of patterns.. I had mistaken my Si as a super ego function, it fits well in a super ID type of fantasy..


Now as far as John Beebe, I would be an FiNe, INFP.


My Fe oppositional is why I have been mistyped by so many, as an EIE.


I had noticed that SCS and John Beebe overlap one another slightly, and I had with this shared to Lena..

But as far as the oppositional Fe, I would like to give unto a quotation:

One of the shadow archetypes of consciousness, the opposing personality, consists of a cluster of defenses of the self that are used to oppose, rather than one and work with others. The opposing personality fuels the defensive character styles— passive aggressive, paranoid, avoidant and histrionic— we sometimes see in our patients. Deployed internally, this consciousness can end up opposing one’s own best interests in perverse ways.

--John Beebe, Energies and Patterns in Psychological Type, page 58

My Fe works against my own self and others, it is how I react with, it is where my neurosis shoots up. The Beebe oppositional function (first phase of a shadow) is aligned very well with the conception of the ignoring:

The shadow is repressed because it is felt to be incomparable with a person’s moral values. It retains, and firm time to time expresses, feelings, motives, desires, and ambitions that the person has long decided are unworthy, because they do not accord with the individual’s idea of how people should feel, let alone behave. Since it is usually not owned as part of the person, the shadow has a great deal of autonomy, which allows it from time to time even to escape repression, so that it can act out the very striving that the ego has rejected as incomparable with its standards.

-p. 58

And even in Gulenko’s own school, the ignoring being a highly weakened, struggling area would befit of.

My oppositional Fe is identified with, from having been faced with immense trauma that has opposed my essence and made me work against my own self and others. It is likely a severely abused person in general would identify (as in relate or others would equate this person to such) more with their oppositional, which is defensive in nature and highly neurotic.

If you really examine myself, you will see all my criticisms and defensive behaviors are Fe, this is why people have typed me an EIE, and it is wrong they assume my defensive nature is hidden agenda Se and Fe base. It is almost like my Fe opposition feeds into my polr Se rotations and makes it more neurotic, and even a degree, psychotic.

Others misidentify this as Fe and Se, when it is pure unhealthy, neurotic Fe. When I had criticized and lashed out on Qaz, I had told him, “the community doesn’t need you”. It was me basing on collective standard in a delusional, opposing, attack full way.. I have exposed my abusive parents to the entire world to be seen— an Se+ super ego with my own placement and regard to the appearance/illusion my family gives, and exposing them to the entire world, globally to be seen (Fe-)… This has do with the TiSe super ego and oppositional/neurotically ignored Fe, that is suppressed in a healthful person, but in myself, has flared and shown face to the world in its scream— literal and metaphoric.

My Se is a perfection, evaluatory function— where I cannot keep track of my surreal sings, am poor at grasping the physical details and surface of objects, and yet aspire to be very good in this area. I want be a drawer and visual artist, to be able pair my drawings with poetry I write, and get it is notoriously difficult for me as to focus on all the pushcart details and keep them up with.. I aspire to have beautiful things and live beautifully, and yet can’t keep up with these things well, and it causes me pain and issue when I can’t meet up to these standards.

I am also very poorly aware of my own space, which is vital Si. I aspire to have my own “power” in my own placement of things, and yet I cannot achieve this— power to attain society aligning with my own FiNe ideals.. The FiNe are where the TiSe serve. (TiSe is concerned with power and is aware of those dynamics). It’s not that I want control over others or want power to compensate for deficits, but more to be seen (Se) and to bring about my own ideals for society (Fi in ego block).

My oppositional Fe can easily result in others to mistake me as an Fe ego or 4D Fe type.. Some peoples’ idea of Fe also overlaps Se, so very rarely, you may get a person who may try me 4D Se as well, but neither my Fe or Se maturely use. The Fe is discarded other than as an arsenal or unfulfilled ego wishes to try and ultimately bring about FiNe. Because others do not have a concept of full ego blocks. And the SCS view of ignoring isn’t quite complete, because it isn’t dealing with a direct neurotic person as does Beebe’s model. Most neurosis in SCS would be in super ego and suggestive..

My Fe is far from being an ego, as I am not consciously aware of my moods and emotions affecting others, and my image core in enneagram
more shows up in deliberately showing my gifts and abilities (Ne).

My Se also, I aspire to take action and imagine willpower, but never can initiate the will physically. Never in present reality, and put it off via Ne exploration of potential ideas and things that can come and help me with this, and of getting lost deep into the working of things. I have also tried be “scientific” (Se, observable, verified concrete proof), and yet always ended in my own ideas and interpretations of means, and also applying the science poorly in a way that doesn’t prove it in arguments.

[Muira]

I had noticed that SCS and John Beebe overlap one another slightly, and I had with this shared to Lena..

You know Lena? I know her too! She is so smart and polite.

[Braingel]

You know Lena? I know her too! She is so smart and polite.

Yes, she is. As far as my showing her of my own findings with beebe, she could see what I was sharing and what I had said about bebe’s literature of an Fi dom’s Ti demon fitting the role in what I noticed.

[Muira]

Yes, she is. As far as my showing her of my own findings with beebe, she could see what I was sharing and what I had said about bebe’s literature of an Fi dom’s Ti demon fitting the role in what I noticed.

Indeed! She has typed me out on my profile Yukita on PDB, but as talking to her on discord, she explained a lot more on my typing and helped me on how much information I should add.

I learned a lot as she analyzed my questionnaire, she also explained a lot of important concepts.

She also was critical of ITR theory which made a lot more sense when using my own experience, she agreed that ITR only seems to apply to which when two people are unfamiliar and remain immature(haven't broken away from chain-of-thought, lacks individual based self-actualization).

Can you show me some examples of Bebe's literature you discussed? I wanna see them for myself.

[Braingel]

Indeed! She has typed me out on my profile Yukita on PDB, but as talking to her on discord, she explained a lot more on my typing and helped me on how much information I should add.

I learned a lot as she analyzed my questionnaire, she also explained a lot of important concepts.

She also was critical of ITR theory which made a lot more sense when using my own experience, she agreed that ITR only seems to apply to which when two people are unfamiliar and remain immature(haven't broken away from chain-of-thought, lacks individual based self-actualization).

Can you show me some examples of Bebe's literature you discussed? I wanna see them for myself.

Sure, give me time. I’ve a few things to add to this thread in my initial starting post, and I’ll post what I found..

[Braingel]

Indeed! She has typed me out on my profile Yukita on PDB, but as talking to her on discord, she explained a lot more on my typing and helped me on how much information I should add.

I learned a lot as she analyzed my questionnaire, she also explained a lot of important concepts.

She also was critical of ITR theory which made a lot more sense when using my own experience, she agreed that ITR only seems to apply to which when two people are unfamiliar and remain immature(haven't broken away from chain-of-thought, lacks individual based self-actualization).

Can you show me some examples of Bebe's literature you discussed? I wanna see them for myself.

So, I’m going to show you the direct things I’ve shown Lena..


The book has a bunch of annotations of insights and had revelations I’d..


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...72f213f9fc090&


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...f8432de026ffa&

The focus on placement in the Fi lead and power imbalance feels highly super ego ish, and whilst Beebe defines Ti as the demon of Fi, his conception of Ti is highly aligning of the role… The super ego start.. I had shown this to Lena and she’s agreed with my interpretation, that it aligns scs (as I’ve not studied the model in vast, and merely grasped it intuitively).

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...876e8718361fb&

My comments on beebe Lena had corrected fits Se for his own views (likely because it’s finance), but it still would fit super ego, and I feel it does fit SeFi (he is an ILE, and self-types such in his model, furthering his super ego is highly aligning scs in his own self-type)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1d305a49f70e8&

[Braingel]

Indeed! She has typed me out on my profile Yukita on PDB, but as talking to her on discord, she explained a lot more on my typing and helped me on how much information I should add.

I learned a lot as she analyzed my questionnaire, she also explained a lot of important concepts.

She also was critical of ITR theory which made a lot more sense when using my own experience, she agreed that ITR only seems to apply to which when two people are unfamiliar and remain immature(haven't broken away from chain-of-thought, lacks individual based self-actualization).

Can you show me some examples of Bebe's literature you discussed? I wanna see them for myself.

Then, Beebe’s eternal child conception really befits a super ID (which I assume would be fantasy of unconscious), being a childish function not vastly developed.. And wanting play and grab attention.. And then his oppositional function befits the ignoring overall:

The shadow is repressed because it is felt to be incomparable with a person’s moral values. It retains, and firm time to time expresses, feelings, motives, desires, and ambitions that the person has long decided are unworthy, because they do not accord with the individual’s idea of how people should feel, let alone behave. Since it is usually not owned as part of the person, the shadow has a great deal of autonomy, which allows it from time to time even to escape repression, so that it can act out the very striving that the ego has rejected as incomparable with its standards.

(The oppositional is the start of the shadow). Beebe is focused on pathology and neurosis, as he’s a clinical psychiatrist (but who specializes in psychotherapy). His model conceived after 40+ years of clinical work.. So his idea of the ignoring will be more averted upon pathology and neurotic cases. In a non neurotic person, it would manifest differently…

[Braingel]

Then, Beebe’s eternal child conception really befits a super ID (which I assume would be fantasy of unconscious), being a childish function not vastly developed.. And wanting play and grab attention.. And then his oppositional function before the ignoring overall:



(The oppositional is the start of the shadow). Beebe is focused on pathology and neurosis, as he’s a clinical psychologist. His model conceived after 40+ years of clinical work.. So his idea of the ignoring will be more averted upon pathology and neurotic cases. In a non neurotic person, it would manifest differently…

My Fe, for instance, is EXTREMELY neurotic. It is no surprise I have been typed a model G “EIE-H”.. They assume it would be “Fe- base”.. And one person suggesting me as SEE (which is way off). It is easy to assume me as those, because my Fe and my Se are easily my most neurotic placements, aside from my Ti. But this is having do with the placement of my functions, rather than actual behavioral correlation to functions. Which is how most people approach typing, which is a false way to by. My Fe shows its face. Beebe’s oppositional fits ignoring in socionics, but he takes it further in that he pathologizes this placement as a highly neurotic show. He thinks all of the shadow can be neurotic, and the super ego would be the shadow as well in his model, and scs would classify the ID and super ego as neurotic…. So this idea is also quite in support of beebe as well… though, the super ID suggestive may be put to as more neurotic.

[Muira]

Then, Beebe’s eternal child conception really befits a super ID (which I assume would be fantasy of unconscious), being a childish function not vastly developed.. And wanting play and grab attention.. And then his oppositional function befits the ignoring overall:



(The oppositional is the start of the shadow). Beebe is focused on pathology and neurosis, as he’s a clinical psychiatrist (but who specializes in psychotherapy). His model conceived after 40+ years of clinical work.. So his idea of the ignoring will be more averted upon pathology and neurotic cases. In a non neurotic person, it would manifest differently…

Interesting! Wanna see the analysis Lena composed for me?

[Braingel]

Indeed! She has typed me out on my profile Yukita on PDB, but as talking to her on discord, she explained a lot more on my typing and helped me on how much information I should add.

I learned a lot as she analyzed my questionnaire, she also explained a lot of important concepts.

She also was critical of ITR theory which made a lot more sense when using my own experience, she agreed that ITR only seems to apply to which when two people are unfamiliar and remain immature(haven't broken away from chain-of-thought, lacks individual based self-actualization).

Can you show me some examples of Bebe's literature you discussed? I wanna see them for myself.

Aushura’s Fi was basically replaced by Ti sysemtizing, so she had a very rigid view of ITR dynamics.. In a systemic, Ti replaced way, and her system is Ne-Ti with very poor Fi.

[Muira]

Aushura’s Fi was basically replaced by Ti sysemtizing, so she had a very rigid view of ITR dynamics.. In a systemic, Ti replaced way, and her system is Ne-Ti with very poor Fi.

Yep, which I thought similar to Aushura until I looked at my experience with my conflictors(ex My dad) and reflected after going to therapy.

I was offended because they were right, and I was of course immature, but also after really understanding how one of the people who have cared about me even at my lowest were EII and ESI, I understood more.


Poor Fi leads to general lack of satisfaction in relationships, a 1D view of people around them, etc.

[Braingel]

When @Metaphor had told me that I am an EII a year plus ago in my G thread, I had been surprised, and tried see why he’d think this from a POV of WSD, which I assumed he was using.. He has been able to correctly identify me as an EII, but I’d no idea he was using that model, nor did I know anything of it.

Calm, serious, rigid, and somewhat detached from the imaginary perception but able to mental imagery (Ni demo), something that I wouldn't usually see from the other IEIs. And IEI often is quite noticeable from their upbringing - despite when they appear serious, no one would arduously take them seriously because of their fun-loving nature (this is common among the Beta quadra). Also, as for the further implication, you could check this thread for a few more details about their noticeable differences when it comes to behaviors or upbringings:

what-are-some-differences-between-eii-and-iei

What he was basically describing when he’d typed me, is 4D vital Ni (unconscious).

[Muira]

When @Metaphor had told me that I am an EII a year plus ago in my G thread, I had been surprised, and tried see why he’d think this from a POV of WSD, which I assumed he was using.. He has been able to correctly identify me as an EII, but I’d no idea he was using that model, nor did I know anything of it.

Thats the same guy who typed me ILE-Ti Sp 7. Interesting

[Braingel]

Thats the same guy who typed me ILE-Ti Sp 7. Interesting

Metaphor overtypes intuition a little, but he’s overall a decent typist. I mean, I always knew my enneagram tritype and core, but he got me correct as a 4, 461 tritype (he types it 416 order though, because of the trialectical theory) and he got me correctly typed as an EII, typed me model G IEI-N. I mean IEI/EII would be the correct model G typing, I’m an Fi-Ni social mission, but since that model is about behavior, it tries pin me as eie-h (not G, the students). And I do behave like a 4D Fe- type, but it’s because of abuse and trauma and the whole shadow, my shadow is Fe-.

[Braingel]

Model G can’t catch my real type alone, because it doesn’t get into the essence of someone’s psychological processes and focuses on behavior. It’s a very, very sensory system. Gulenko would be an SCS ESI, replacing Ne deeper workings and content of objects and their potentials, with Se observations of physical behavior, and a TiNe super ego.. His Ne is rigid.

It just looks at my “behavior”. So in the whole “type image”, it is easy to slam me as “EIE” with Fe- base… It doesn’t look at the origin of my Fe-. I would have Fe- in classical aushura… But it is not conscious, it is not 4D. It is ignored. And Beebe’s way of defining the ignoring of opposition makes it an arsenal and offense.. Which does show up in myself.

[Braingel]

Model G can’t catch my real type alone, because it doesn’t get into the essence of someone’s psychological processes and focuses on behavior. It’s a very, very sensory system. Gulenko would be an SCS ESI, replacing Ne deeper workings and content of objects and their potentials, with Se observations of physical behavior, and a TiNe super ego.. His Ne is rigid.

It just looks at my “behavior”. So in the whole “type image”, it is easy to slam me as “EIE” with Fe- base… It doesn’t look at the origin of my Fe-. I would have Fe- in classical aushura… But it is not conscious, it is not 4D. It is ignored. And Beebe’s way of defining the ignoring of opposition makes it an arsenal and offense.. Which does show up in myself.

Which doesn’t work in the case of complex trauma. So it’s no wonder I am basically untypable in model G. Because that entire system is based on behavior and what behavior shows out.. Well, my behavior showing out are neurotic reactions from child abuse and other traumas… It isn’t even coming drom
my base function. My abuse makes me behave like a 4D Fe type and look stronger Se than I am, because my Se is polr and highly neurotic thereof, and can’t maturely express itself.

[Braingel]

Scs is made for Ne egos and Ne roles (who are more open and don’t discriminate/filter Ne info). No susprise, was at its basis, made by an Ne base ego.

[Braingel]

Which doesn’t work in the case of complex trauma. So it’s no wonder I am basically untypable in model G. Because that entire system is based on behavior and what behavior shows out.. Well, my behavior showing out are neurotic reactions from child abuse and other traumas… It isn’t even coming drom
my base function. My abuse makes me behave like a 4D Fe type and look stronger Se than I am, because my Se is polr and highly neurotic thereof, and can’t maturely express itself.

I can only think of three people who are active SHS users who aren’t Se ego, and two of them are Se roles (Kindness, Reality denialist/mr p).. Wisteria is some sei or lii, in this model. It makes sense also for an Se role to be interested in shs, because they don’t have a filter for Se forms of info.. They’re wide open to it.

Pirouette, Ilyi, Aster, my research, etc.. Are Se egos… ESI for the first two (aster would have super ID Ni fantasy and Se fairy aesthetic), ilyi SLE, myr LSI is kept. Now varla is likely an Se ego or an Se role. Dunno him enough, but he is interested in Se systems, like model G and vultology. He could be Se role unable to discern info on this..

Spectrum is likely LSI/SEI.

So only two people type their own accurately by an Aushura and Beebe standard of typing. I actually always had both aster and pirouette as esi’s..

[Braingel]

I can only think of three people who are active SHS users who aren’t Se ego, and two of them are Se roles (Kindness, Reality denialist/mr p).. Wisteria is some sei or lii, in this model. It makes sense also for an Se role to be interested in shs, because they don’t have a filter for Se forms of info.. They’re wide open to it.

Pirouette, Ilyi, Aster, my research, etc.. Are Se egos… ESI for the first two (aster would have super ID Ni fantasy and Se fairy aesthetic), ilyi SLE, myr LSI is kept. Now varla is likely an Se ego or an Se role. Dunno him enough, but he is interested in Se systems, like model G and vultology. He could be Se role unable to discern info on this..

Spectrum is likely LSI/SEI.

So only two people type their own accurately by an Aushura and Beebe standard of typing. I actually always had both aster and pirouette as esi’s..

Ilyi is very open to Ne models like Beebe and scs, because of her role being Ne..

[Distance]

I can only think of three people who are active SHS users who aren’t Se ego, and two of them are Se roles (Kindness, Reality denialist/mr p).. Wisteria is some sei or lii, in this model. It makes sense also for an Se role to be interested in shs, because they don’t have a filter for Se forms of info.. They’re wide open to it.

Pirouette, Ilyi, Aster, my research, etc.. Are Se egos… ESI for the first two (aster would have super ID Ni fantasy and Se fairy aesthetic), ilyi SLE, myr LSI is kept. Now varla is likely an Se ego or an Se role. Dunno him enough, but he is interested in Se systems, like model G and vultology. He could be Se role unable to discern info on this..

Spectrum is likely LSI/SEI.

So only two people type their own accurately by an Aushura and Beebe standard of typing. I actually always had both aster and pirouette as esi’s..

So you've changed your intuitive listing from your other thread?

[Braingel]

So you've changed your intuitive listing from your other thread?

No, not everyone is a model G person. Most people on this site root in WSS and Filatova.. I only included G followers.. There may be some people I’m not aware of who are model G-based, but I don’t believe there are as many G-era than WSS and Fila followers. There are more intuitive on the forum who study wss and Fila than there are G studiers.

[Braingel]

So you've changed your intuitive listing from your other thread?

(SHS is model G).

[Braingel]

Model G would assume me as an overall neurotic person.. It would dumb it down and classify me as being neurotic, because I’m “a negativist” (which I am not). When it is my shadow that’s neurotic.. My Fi and Ne aren’t neurotic at all… They’re my least neurotic functions, but of course I still will internalize info in these things, which will feed into trauma responses, but they’re how info digests, and then the Fe throws up.. From the Fi-Ne digestion..

[Braingel]

Model G would assume me as an overall neurotic person.. It would dumb it down and classify me as being neurotic, because I’m “a negativist” (which I am not). When it is my shadow that’s neurotic.. My Fi and Ne aren’t neurotic at all… They’re my least neurotic functions, but of course I still will internalize info in these things, which will feed into trauma responses, but they’re how info digests, and then the Fe throws up.. From the Fi-Ne digestion..

People type me based on my vomit and how this looks, which is Fe. They assume for me to produce Fe spillage, it is Fe. But the Fe couldn’t even digest well in my conscious to begin with, to where it pushed up in a neurotic, immature, toxic way that works against myself and others. It’s not me being a “difficult” person and negativist dichotomy type person, as I one is truly difficult or easy to be around, as those are in time frames that pedicure this, relative to one’s health.

People don’t look at what caused me to throw up in the first of places, and the digestion that took place, and resulted in my throwing up of this all… In the nasty, corrosive acid that is my behavior of this kind when it comes out and is a nuisance at best and is toxic as its worst.

For people to procure eie for me is not in itself completely unworthy, as this would be the shadow state that is being typed, and most people typing by what they see (being sensors that they mostly are), are gonna abide this as my type..

[Braingel]

Model G is basically a system made for Se egos. Which is no surprise, because Gulenko is actually an Se ego his own self. Others may try argue, “but it is the only system that considers a plethora of possibilities”.. Yes, it considers possibilities, but based on physically observable qualities and features of a person, and their expressed, seen behavior. This is Se replacing Ne. This is why Gulenko is an XSI, and I type him as an ESI, because TiNe super ego form of mental functions make far more sense than of FiSe super ego/mental, and he is quite open to Ti systems, and hyper focuses on peoples’ placements in society.

It is Se replacing Ne to focus on possibilities by physical observation and what is concretely presenting, and to make an entire model based around “type images”. Even Gulenko’s book descriptions are based on physical characteristics and observed behavior. It never goes into deep cognition or what’s underneath the behavior and of why it happens.

[Squirrel]

Model G is basically a system made for Se egos. Which is no surprise, because Gulenko is actually an Se ego his own self. Others may try argue, “but it is the only system that considers a plethora of possibilities”.. Yes, it considers possibilities, but based on physically observable qualities and features of a person, and their expressed, seen behavior. This is Se replacing Ne. This is why Gulenko is an XSI, and I type him as an ESI, because TiNe super ego form of mental functions make far more sense than of FiSe super ego/mental, and he is quite open to Ti systems, and hyper focuses on peoples’ placements in society.

It is Se replacing Ne to focus on possibilities by physical observation and what is concretely presenting, and to make an entire model based around “type images”. Even Gulenko’s book descriptions are based on physical characteristics and observed behavior. It never goes into deep cognition or what’s underneath the behavior and of why it happens.

To what extent do you think the type differs between the three systems (SCS, Model G and modern socionics ) ?

[Braingel]

To what extent do you think the type differs between the three systems (SCS, Model G and modern socionics ) ?

Hi, I will answer you several ways, as I don’t know if you intend this as from the types I mentioned with EII, LSI, ESI and IEI, or generally. I’m going to assume the ladder, but I’ll brief the former.

Well, SCS is largely based on the motivation and outlook of functions and how they process inside and then project outward.. The other two are largely behavioral, but they put different dimensionality and archetypes to them… This makes it less likely to consistently remain the same type in all three of these things, which others seem to miss.. What I can say for myself as I’m an NF in all systems…

They all just base on completely different metrics to type; motivation and formation of outlooks (scs), outright values behavior and its strength that gets put to value formation (wss), and micro expressions and behavior and a rigid archetype (shs) that gives the illusion of not being rigid with all the dcnh and accentuation combo.

Now far the other 4 mentioned types… An EII in WSS seeks practicality, in G, it is more about emphasizing forgiveness and they are able to be practical, because they have 3D Te suggestive.. And in SCS, an eii is closer to an IEI’s Te polr, in that the Te is vital and not thought of. Even in my scs questionnaire, the Te is the hardest thing to answer.. The IEI is someone who is very conscious of practicality and of space…. The eii doesn’t have mental Si so isn’t.. The ESi and LSI fixate on Ne and will often mistake their own self as good in these areas and think about them a lot, but base it on experience instead, which is what you see a person like Gulenko doing….. It doesn’t matter at all for experience in western and in G, and instead, the wss is just stubborn and avoids Ne and in wss, they lose energy from it, making Ne polr in those models unlikely to even be mental Ne polr in classic…

Some of the informational elements also change definition in slight.. For instance, Ne in scs is partially about the internality of an object, which is Ni in modern. Fe is about screaming and emotional display and not Se at all in SCS, in other models this can be both Fe or Se. But an Fe ego would consciously do this for an effect and impact on a mood, it wouldn’t be some unconscious emotional display (which is my own case).

Which brings me to another point; EII is not aware of its impact on others’ moods and an IEI is, making an IEI much more cognizantly in control of how others receive them… They aren’t as aware of their relations and distance from other people… (For SCS). The IEI is more conscious of time.. I am quite gifted in time recognition, but it happens unconsciously. I rarely need set an alarm, as my unconscious naturally wakens me to the time of my needing wake up, generally I’ll wake up 5 minutes to a half hour before I even need be up.. Doesn’t matter what time it is, how tired I am, how many hours of sleep I’d gotten. I will also often walk out of a thing in the right time when others are ready to leave.. I just somehow know it’s time to go.

The biggest difference SCS has that G and WSS have not is the whole mental/vital track of conscious and unconscious.. You don’t need be conscious of your impact on others’ moods to be Fe in G or in WSS, just expressive..

ESI and LSI are conscious of the same things and not.. But their ego placements swap.. So an ESI is more open to Ti info in the role and an LSI is with Fi.. The LSI is receptive to any relational placement and an ESI is with placement and hierarchies.. And rules.. ESI relies on experience for Ne and Te and LSI, it’s Fe and Ne. So Pe and Je ego and super ego and ego in 3D and 1D. Static.

Awareness has significantly less to do with the two behavioral models. This is why I say that SCS is far more motivationally-influenced.

Something I also excluded is the polr is more like the suggestive on scs…..

[Squirrel]

Hi, I will answer you several ways, as I don’t know if you intend this as from the types I mentioned with EII, LSI, ESI and IEI, or generally. I’m going to assume the ladder, but I’ll brief the former.

Well, SCS is largely based on the motivation and outlook of functions and how they process inside and then project outward.. The other two are largely behavioral, but they put different dimensionality and archetypes to them… This makes it less likely to consistently remain the same type in all three of these things, which others seem to miss.. What I can say for myself as I’m an NF in all systems…

They all just base on completely different metrics to type; motivation and formation of outlooks (scs), outright values behavior and its strength that gets put to value formation (wss), and micro expressions and behavior and a rigid archetype (shs) that gives the illusion of not being rigid with all the dcnh and accentuation combo.

Now far the other 4 mentioned types… An EII in WSS seeks practicality, in G, it is more about emphasizing forgiveness and they are able to be practical, because they have 3D Te suggestive.. And in SCS, an eii is closer to an IEI’s Te polr, in that the Te is vital and not thought of. Even in my scs questionnaire, the Te is the hardest thing to answer.. The IEI is someone who is very conscious of practicality and of space…. The eii doesn’t have mental Si so isn’t.. The ESi and LSI fixate on Ne and will often mistake their own self as good in these areas and think about them a lot, but base it on experience instead, which is what you see a person like Gulenko doing….. It doesn’t matter at all for experience in western and in G, and instead, the wss is just stubborn and avoids Ne and in wss, they lose energy from it, making Ne polr in those models unlikely to even be mental Ne polr in classic…

Some of the informational elements also change definition in slight.. For instance, Ne in scs is partially about the internality of an object, which is Ni in modern. Fe is about screaming and emotional display and not Se at all in SCS, in other models this can be both Fe or Se. But an Fe ego would consciously do this for an effect and impact on a mood, it wouldn’t be some unconscious emotional display (which is my own case).

Which brings me to another point; EII is not aware of its impact on others’ moods and an IEI is, making an IEI much more cognizantly in control of how others receive them… They aren’t as aware of their relations and distance from other people… (For SCS). The IEI is more conscious of time.. I am quite gifted in time recognition, but it happens unconsciously. I rarely need set an alarm, as my unconscious naturally wakens me to the time of my needing wake up, generally I’ll wake up 5 minutes to a half hour before I even need be up.. Doesn’t matter what time it is, how tired I am, how many hours of sleep I’d gotten.

The biggest difference SCS has that G and WSS have not is the whole mental/vital track of conscious and unconscious.. You don’t need be conscious of your impact on others’ moods to be Fe in G or in WSS, just expressive..

ESI and LSI are conscious of the same things and not.. But their ID ego placements swap.. So an ESI is more open to Ti info in the role and an LSI is with Fi.. The LSI is receptive to any relational placement and an ESI is with placement and hierarchies.. And rules.. ESI relies on experience for Ne and Te and LSI, it’s Fe and Ne. So Pe and Je ego and super ego and ego in 3D and 1D. Static.

Awareness has significantly less to do with the two behavioral models. This is why I say that SCS is far more motivationally-influenced.

Very informative, thank you

[Braingel]

Once Capitan pointed out my TiSe super ego, I started noticing it everywhere in myself, in past things I’ve written and the sort. I thought that Si mental/super ego can also work, because I don’t discriminate Si info (but this is mostly for aromatherapy and herbs, not in direct comfort itself and space, I suppose).. Bit super ID fantasy works. After all, it isn’t like I always think about health and comfort… It’s a fantasy that I hold..

[Braingel]

Once Capitan pointed out my TiSe super ego, I started noticing it everywhere in myself, in past things I’ve written and the sort. I thought that Si mental/super ego can also work, because I don’t discriminate Si info (but this is mostly for aromatherapy and herbs, not in direct comfort itself and space, I suppose).. Bit super ID fantasy works. After all, it isn’t like I always think about health and comfort… It’s a fantasy that I hold..

Which tbh, shows how immature my Si is.. Just studying aromatherapy and herbs like a curious child sometimes, and then boring it by, and having fantasies of comfort without being able materialize it, like a comfortable cottage by a brook that’s misty, where I can spend the days in my own inner world.

[Braingel]

At first I didn’t even really want type myself as an EII, even, because it went against my self-idealized image of an ultimate fairy dreamer (which isn’t even how it is per se, in scs and an EII is more perceptive in ways of many in terms of deep auric perception, because of being able to perceive the hidden essence and potential of the object, making it even more “fairy ish”), and still tried see IEI in SCS, but no, EII is aligning my essence and cognition.. My social 4w5 presence just wanted mask itself over the lens for a brief. Then, my boyfriend is an SLE and had always thought me an EII and criticized the conflict relation, and so whilst I knew this doesn’t determine compatibility alone, it bothered me to be seen EII.

[Muira]

At first I didn’t even really want type myself as an EII, even, because it went against my self-idealized image of an ultimate fairy dreamer (which isn’t even how it is per se, in scs and an EII is more perceptive in ways of many in terms of deep auric perception, because of being able to perceive the hidden essence and potential of the object, making it even more “fairy ish”), and still tried see IEI in SCS, but no, EII is aligning my essence and cognition.. My social 4w5 presence just wanted mask itself over the lens for a brief. Then, my boyfriend is an SLE and had always thought me an EII and criticized the conflict relation, and so whilst I knew this doesn’t determine compatibility alone, it bothered me to be seen EII.

EIIs are so much more creative and coherent though, but I get where you are coming from.

[Braingel]

EIIs are so much more creative and coherent though, but I get where you are coming from.

Yeah, I know. Qaz was trying say I am not intuitive or Ni base, because he can understand my thoughts and they’re not as disconnected as Ni based on this site (which is a pretty bad way to type by, but it’s because his Si base processes like that, and his Ni can only learn from experience).. I am autistic, so I will in general communicate more blunt and straightforward, even though I am extremely adept with symbols. Also, part of this got drilled into me, to not communicate in my flower metaphoric language, because of ABA therapy, which.. In my childhood as you can see, I got bullied often for speaking too maturely and also abstractly: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...857d0f8ba8841&

But I always express this where it will be valued. Some of my selectiveness with revealing this has do with image-based shame issues.

Anyone who knows me and is close would tell you I am deeply metaphoric and symbolical in my communication. But I can be blunt in general social interactions as a learnt way to avoid more social miscommunications that have resulted in a lot of trauma as for me.

This is why typing by surface characteristics is often inaccurate. People evolve defenses and ways to guard their essence overtime with enough negative reinforcements..

I’ve shown a lot of my symbolical communicative style on discord, and it’s driven some people insane, even threw “schizo” at me.

[Braingel]

Yeah, I know. Qaz was trying say I am not intuitive or Ni base, because he can understand my thoughts and they’re not as disconnected as Ni based on this site (which is a pretty bad way to type by, but it’s because his Si base processes like that, and his Ni can only learn from experience).. I am autistic, so I will in general communicate more blunt and straightforward, even though I am extremely adept with symbols. Also, part of this got drilled into me, to not communicate in my flower metaphoric language, because of ABA therapy, which.. In my childhood as you can see, I got bullied often for speaking too maturely and also abstractly: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...857d0f8ba8841&

But I always express this where it will be valued. Some of my selectiveness with revealing this has do with image-based shame issues.

Anyone who knows me and is close would tell you I am deeply metaphoric and symbolical in my communication. But I can be blunt in general social interactions as a learnt way to avoid more social miscommunications that have resulted in a lot of trauma as for me.

This is why typing by surface characteristics is often inaccurate. People evolve defenses and ways to guard their essence overtime with enough negative reinforcements..

I’ve shown a lot of my symbolical communicative style on discord, and it’s driven some people insane, even threw “schizo” at me.

I would go around using far advanced my age vocabulary words, and communicating in metaphors and analogies and random thoughts devoid from reality.. My teachers and ABA therapists tried train this out of me, to avoid me becoming more bullied than already I was being…

I’ve faced immense maltreatment in my life, and it was present from kindergarten.. By peers and happened made severely alone age 7 from family.. Me being more selective with things about myself, is not only image in the context of shame in this way, but it is how a victim of sexual assault may with an introversive personality, wear a lot of saggy clothing to conceal their own self as a measure to avoid more touching..

See, how I had said “long story” https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...ad96b64b303d7&
I wrote it out places I knew I wouldn’t be devalued as much.. Even if I was a bit.. From my intensive split from reality insights and metaphors and people had given me such a hard time for clogging chats with that.. When I am accessed into my 2 line, though, I just unfilteredly pour everything out. Often in the shadow of Fe. (Vital ignored Fe that does come on, expressing my own emotions to public for my own self in those times, with no care for impact in how it’s received).

[Braingel]

I would go around using far advanced my age vocabulary words, and communicating in metaphors and analogies and random thoughts devoid from reality.. My teachers and ABA therapists tried train this out of me, to avoid me becoming more bullied than already I was being…

I’ve faced immense maltreatment in my life, and it was present from kindergarten.. By peers and happened made severely alone age 7 from family.. Me being more selective with things about myself, is not only image in the context of shame in this way, but it is how a victim of sexual assault may with an introversive personality, wear a lot of saggy clothing to conceal their own self as a measure to avoid more touching..

See, how I had said “long story” https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...ad96b64b303d7&
I wrote it out places I knew I wouldn’t be devalued as much.. Even if I was a bit.. From my intensive split from reality insights and metaphors and people had given me such a hard time for clogging chats with that.. When I am accessed into my 2 line, though, I just unfilteredly pour everything out. Often in the shadow of Fe. (Vital ignored Fe that does come on, expressing my own emotions to public for my own self in those times, with no care for impact in how it’s received).

This random blurting out my detached thoughts, awkward social interactions, communicative differences (more metaphoric, more awkward interactions, lack of eye contact and more importantly my severe disorganization for me evaluated by special ed team and school psych for autism to begin with.

[Muira]

Yeah, I know. Qaz was trying say I am not intuitive or Ni base, because he can understand my thoughts and they’re not as disconnected as Ni based on this site (which is a pretty bad way to type by, but it’s because his Si base processes like that, and his Ni can only learn from experience).. I am autistic, so I will in general communicate more blunt and straightforward, even though I am extremely adept with symbols. Also, part of this got drilled into me, to not communicate in my flower metaphoric language, because of ABA therapy, which.. In my childhood as you can see, I got bullied often for speaking too maturely and also abstractly: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1213841629371306004/1229635670423633992/IMG_4710.jpg?ex=66306675&is=661df175&hm=f6d2e28e5a 6e928817ffad9530330b463766e4c4c883e1f5ead857d0f8ba 8841&

Wow, I was sort of similar to a kid, but more distant, but I had a almost 180 flip change in personality type and thought process.

As an autistic person myself, do you too often feel alienated by everyone? Even though it's a huge spectrum, there are usually some differences.

But I always express this where it will be valued. Some of my selectiveness with revealing this has do with image-based shame issues.

Anyone who knows me and is close would tell you I am deeply metaphoric and symbolical in my communication. But I can be blunt in general social interactions as a learnt way to avoid more social miscommunications that have resulted in a lot of trauma as for me.
This is why typing by surface characteristics is often inaccurate. People evolve defenses and ways to guard their essence overtime with enough negative reinforcements..

I’ve shown a lot of my symbolical communicative style on discord, and it’s driven some people insane, even threw “schizo” at me.

I actually like the way you express your words, I never really got to properly express my own emotions or sentiments and feel safe other than online rarely.

Have you been going to therapy?

[Braingel]

Wow, I was sort of similar to a kid, but more distant, but I had a almost 180 flip change in personality type and thought process.

As an autistic person myself, do you too often feel alienated by everyone? Even though it's a huge spectrum, there are usually some differences.





I actually like the way you express your words, I never really got to properly express my own emotions or sentiments and feel safe other than online rarely.

Have you been going to therapy?

I feel like alien who got put on the wrong planet. I don’t even feel like a human, at all.. I feel like some fairy-alien who got put into a half human body (half, because my nervous system and perceptive ability are not very “human”)

[Braingel]

G followers I am aware of:
fractals
pirouette
ilyi
divine too human/wbry (which he may be ili, don’t include him).
aster
reality denialist
I mean alive tech is, but it doesn’t seem full shs
spectrum
kindness
Alfonso
my research
wisteria
Chaos conductor
Viktor
chinchilla
just everyone else in the mod G thread

[Braingel]

People I type intuitive and what school they use (and my scs typing)
Necro rose western socionics and a bit of G EII/IEI (don’t know which for scs, bc an iei there is more modern EII)
expansion— mixed pan jungian IEE
reality denialist Jung and model G ILE
kindness model G IEE
vewy mbti, western EIE
alive model G and his own understanding LII
raptor model G, model A, mbti ILE
flower mix of systems delta NF or beta NF
Myself EII
Acia IEI/EII Filatova, model G

In my saying only 3 people aren’t Se ego in shs, I included only pure SHS believers

[Braingel]

Hahahah my short story is very TiSe super ego :,) focusing on one’s placement in regards to power dynamics, and Se illusions in appearance that don’t align with one’s own essence and capabilities..