How can you tell the difference because they sound the same to me.
Duality vs Limerence
How can you tell the difference because they sound the same to me.
Duality is just limerence that you act upon/works/external environments are supporting the relationship rather than dragging ppl apart. This is also part of the reason rational duals tend to work better than irrational ones generally speaking. Love isn't enough, but rational duals already love enough well usually + they are having the logic and rationality to support that love to make it work 'for real.'
The best duals IRL are duals but they don't go on socionics forums and talk about duals or their relationships, they are just enjoying each other like normies. I think dissecting their relationship like that would be quite weird and antisocial for them. People who aren't in a happy relatioship yet for real are probably much more likely to want to discuss 'duality' kinda like the virgin who isn't having sex, all they wanna talk about is sex etc.
The only way to tell is knowing the types of both people.Originally Posted by Weenusflytrap
Duality doesn't imply feelings or attachment.
Limerence doesn't imply reciprocity and "compatible" types.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
Duality IR helps to establish a friendship, in general. It gives a sympathy, personal attraction and helps to be useful for each other, especially in pairs. Helps to feel emotionally better in interactions.
May help to become better by studing strong traits and skills of each other. May help to reduce neuroticism by improving the work of weaker functions. The more IR effects influence is when people tune to each other in a compassion, when feel love state (perceive each other as parts of one). Duality is IR which makes most easy to establish love state and a friendship in pairs.
The term "limerence" at apa:
"an intense sexual desire and a strong concern for the other person in a romantic relationship, accompanied by great sensitivity to how that other person is reacting to oneself"
Duality is not about sexual desire. It's primarily about friendly attraction and friendship relations. This _secondary_ predisposes to higher sexual attraction for people of different sexes, especially on longer time.
"Limerence typically diminishes in intensity a month or two after the relationship is formed"
Quick reduction of an attraction is common when it's mainly sexual. For the duality its effects should be similar as with a friendship. The deeper and wider friendship connection is established - the more of useful people find in interactions - the more stable is a sympathy and the wish for further interactions. To develop a friendship takes a time, so feelings should become better during this time. When people start to live together as a pair and more to take part in life of each other as friends, then monthes as minimum feelings should be becoming better, instead to reduce.
In a pair good personal contact, friendship relations make higher and more stable sexual attraction. Duality compared to other IR help the most to support sexual attractions and good feelings in a pair.
Resume
The main difference is that duality is accented on personal friendship relations, and not on sexual attraction as "limerence".
When in a pair, duality IR is among strong factors to support long emotional interest. If people in this IR will establish good love state and will be supporting friendship caring about each other, the most of them are expected to keep the pair for life time.
It's a hypothesis still, though. Duality helps, but how much on practice is not known without stats. Pairs break and divorce with any IR, where duality should significantly reduce bad outcomes and negative emotional states in pairs. "Should" as no stats.
It's also important to explain people in a pair what is to be friends, what is to love. As to have one of significant helping factors (as duality IR) to be good friends and to have love state, does not lead itself to good friendship and good love.
There is lack of practical data of how to apply good IR in pairs and to where this leads. It's promising hypothesis of simple way to improve situation with pairs, by helping to choose people with who is easier to establish friendship and love.
In communications with duals of other sex you may partly understand how that human influences on you. Then you may suppose what happens in a pair, when this influence becomes more intensive and longer. The similar happens with both people.
Personally, I don't think I ever felt limerence towards the Dual I was in love with for three years. I have felt limerence in the past though to my first love, who happened to be my Supervisor - it was like being on a powerful stimulant. The love I experienced for my dual was intense but simultaneously very calm - I'd compare it to ocean waves.
Limerence is just your state. It’s mental. But as to whether you can only get limerent towards a dual, I don’t think so. It’s insanity in a sense that you see someone as an object than a person. It seems like it doesn’t matter what they do or who they are even because you’re too caught up in the crazy feelings. I don’t think a person feelin it hard would even care if their DS is getting fed or something.
Once you probably start talking to your dual the more the connection develops too most likely so it probably removes that delusion (just saying this if people are just types).
A limerent song by Ariana: https://open.spotify.com/track/4T652...79646738845398
limerence to me seems inherently fueled by non-reciprocation (you obsess over what you can't have) while duality within socionics to me seems to be describing something essentially mutual. Even if you don't have romantic feelings, you can sympathize with your dual, you are pulled to them, and the other can feel it
obv they are not mutually exclusive but there seems to be a quality to duality that generally pulls one in the 'healthful' direction, at least as compared to say many other relations that will inflame a "limerence" more
If duals have limerence for each other, are they lucky? Or is it doomed?
Is that like idealizing your partner, while also feeling very understood; then when conflict does happen, do they know how to deal with the conflict or are they thrown off and overreact to everything, sabotaging the relationship?
duality: most compatible sets of functions in a typing system, a [theoretical] synergy between two people, a complementary process that is supposed to result in mutual harmony and alleviation from stress
limerence: psychological term for a one-sided obsession with another individual, a personal hidden longing stronger than a crush, an emotion-based and idealized delusion one has in their head. example: goethe's "sorrows of young werther".
two worlds. they cannot be confused. i hate the latter term though (it just... reinvents the wheel), but that's a different discussion.
point is, one is a structural interpersonal phenomenon on the grounds of aushra's theory, the other is a singular infatuated dopamine-fuelled state caused by being smitten by just about anyone, as defined by dorothy tennov in the 60s.
she just sought to investigate "being in love" and involuntarily fantasizing a lot as a result, nothing socionics-related. socionics determines duals by their information element usage and values, those could be any people. if duality happens, things get resolved. reciprocation and being certain is the whole point of duality! advanced duals are not limerent! because they merge.
in modern words, limerence is just one person going through it in their own mind, sort of like a parasocial relationship. it's all fantasy. meanwhile, dualizing is a process in reality.
this is the book that originated the whole theory.
here are more details on how she outlines limerence.
Dorothy Tennov's original components from Love and Limerence were:[36]
- intrusive thinking about the object of your passionate desire (the limerent object or "LO"), who is a possible sexual partner
- acute longing for reciprocation
- dependency of mood on LO's actions or, more accurately, your interpretation of LO's actions with respect to the probability of reciprocation
- inability to react limerently to more than one person at a time (exceptions occur only when limerence is at low ebb—early on or in the last fading)
- some fleeting and transient relief from unrequited limerent passion through vivid imagination of action by LO that means reciprocation
- fear of rejection and sometimes incapacitating but always unsettling shyness in LO's presence, especially in the beginning and whenever uncertainty strikes
- intensification through adversity (at least, up to a point)
- acute sensitivity to any act or thought or condition that can be interpreted favorably, and an extraordinary ability to devise or invent "reasonable" explanations for why the neutrality that the disinterested observer might see is in fact a sign of hidden passion in the LO
- an aching of the "heart" (a region in the center front of the chest) when uncertainty is strong
- buoyancy (a feeling of walking on air) when reciprocation seems evident
- a general intensity of feeling that leaves other concerns in the background
- a remarkable ability to emphasize what is truly admirable in LO and to avoid dwelling on the negative, even to respond with a compassion for the negative and render it, emotionally if not perceptually, into another positive attribute.
Sounds borderline sx5 ong
I’m sx5 and it does sound like me a lot
What's it like being sx5?
I’m very passionate about my beliefs in what constitutes an ideal system and anything that violates the conditions necessary for such a system to exist is treated as the hill I die on. It probably seems like I make a way bigger deal about things than I should to everyone else but I don’t make concessions. I also feel like I must transmit every thought I have to the object of my affection so that our minds may merge into one. I’m always seeking novelty and intense experiences, need to be in a relationship to be happy, and was never very interested in hanging out with friends, only with a significant other.
More like you’re lowkey being evil because you don’t even see them as they are and it’s all about your twisted fantasyIf duals have limerence for each other, are they lucky? Or is it doomed?
Is that like idealizing your partner, while also feeling very understood; then when conflict does happen, do they know how to deal with the conflict or are they thrown off and overreact to everything, sabotaging the relationship?
Wow, how intense is your sense of passion? What if the loved one "broke" your mental image of them in non-serious ways(in the sense they were still kind, etc, but had different hobbies or views that were less than ideal)?
How do you choose your object of your affection? And is there a sense of loyalty to them?
I’m not sure, it’s just normal to me but I guess intense compared to other people. I actually never felt limerence before, just for my dual because he is the kindest sweetest person on earth and I don’t think I’ll ever find anyone as perfectly matched to me. I have found out things that I thought were dealbreakers but it didn’t change anything. I accept everything about him because he is so wonderful. I don’t think there’s anything he can do to ever change how I feel and yes I feel a lot of loyalty to him.
Last edited by Weenusflytrap; 06-12-2024 at 03:10 AM.
I can totally relate to not being able to differentiate between the two. Granted I also have a deep-seated loneliness and mental issues so it makes it harder for me to tell whether I found a friend or my "soulmate of a lifetime". I used to be so delusional about such things... oftentimes I'd meet someone who I have mutual attraction with, and then suddenly, I'd think them and I are "meant to be duals", despite knowing each other for less than a month.
Regardless, if I had to give advice to myself in that delusional state of mind, it'd be pretty tricky. My mind would actively bend the facts just so I'd be convinced that this was someone who would fit perfectly into my life, just as a dual would. I'd think about them all the time, envision them during every aspect of my life, be unable to shift focus on my work or recreational activities because my brain had been consistently hijacked by this "love of my life". Plus, I'd mentally warp all their behaviors to center around me, and it'd be extremely hurtful if they didn't show me any of their "usual signs of care" which could be as stupid as their feet not facing toward me as much as before. In that event, I'd spend the whole weekend ruminating, unable to get up from my bed, just thinking about that one slight and suddenly my perception is suffocated by this one person.
Okay sorry, kind of a tangent haha. But if your experience is similar to mine, I'm just telling you now that you may have dealt with the favorite person (FP) dynamic of a borderline!
If you're struggling with understanding the difference in practice, that definitely signals something's wrong. Duality isn't some all-consuming, be-all-end-all relationship. I have a dual friend and close friend but neither of them cause me to go to such extreme lengths as bending logic, sacrificing unreasonable amounts of time and energy into them, particularly envisioning futures with them 24/7. If you haven't known the person for at least half a year, or maybe a year, I'd be a little skeptical. You can be limerent about a dual, yes, and it may be mutual, but absolutely unlikely to be reciprocated with such concentrated desire.
Duality without the romanticized filters is just a relationship that's most likely to have a great balance between compatibility and fun. That's it. It doesn't guarantee inherent magnetism or anything; I've met duals I didn't click with because they had different priorities, uninteresting interests, kept unwelcome company, or just weren't mature enough for me. Or I just wasn't mature enough for them and had equally as unrelatable goals too. God I don't know, I'm just rambling at this point.
TL;DR, limerence and duality are different, but the mentally unwell could assume otherwise.
Limerance is when you don't build an emotional connection and have to project feelings to overcompensate for the lack of reciprocity. Duality works because when issues come up, they get resolved. The magical feelings of duality imo do exist and are reciprocated when both people are paying attention. But more than that, it's a process by which two people function holistically and smoothly. Limerance is a projection and cannot in any way come close to mimicking something that actually works. In other relationships, people feel invalidated and not good enough, especially when issues come up and you realize that you cannot make it work by communication. And the feelings exist regardless of romantic interest imo. You just have to get good at feeling the difference. Basically it can't be taught. Just get a really good sample of your duals with celebrities, videos, people on this board, fb, tiktok, etc and study them until it clicks. Spend as much time as you can with a few of them. Once it clicks, you will recognize it for the rest of your life. I can say that it feels like mutual curiosity and natural trust and friendship. The romance isn't required for this to be the case. The bad feelings that come up (inevitable, we're human and polr hits are annoying) are also projection but those get resolved if you voice them respectfully and hear each other out -- another difference between limerance and duality. Also I might be biased toward describing si/ne d.s./lead because of my type. the comfort I feel with them is overwhelmingly obvious, even when they're being shits. I might dislike an SLI for a moment (some forever, SOL) but even in those moments I can be so much more who I am without the negative social consequences I get with other types even if we disagree. I return the favor by being silly, lifting the mood of everyone around us so they can relax, and showing them the comradery we have. The urge to make each other laugh is real. And the validation is real. The mutual feeling of "I am enough" will tell you it isn't a projection. Granted some people are extremely unhealthy and can't get along with anyone. They need to be better tuned to their natural psychology, and probably have been under enormous stress for a very long time.
Duality isn't perfect either. It's doesn't feel perfect. It kinda feels like you have to reorganize your thinking but when you do it feels good because you're just being more yourself and can finally relax. You have to make compromises, they just so happen to be the ones that you needed.
Great post, especially the first sentence/definition of limerance, which I hadn’t noticed about limerance before.
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