Braingel/Kara’s Enneagram takes.

[Braingel]

A 6’s emotions spray and aren’t fixated on to begin with, because 6 is an attachment, super ego head type.. Who isn’t in touch emotionally (isn’t even always aware they are anxious or angry from anxiety fears and this is why projection happens), attaches to some body/object (person, ideology, system, method) to prevent reactivity in or first places.. And this is why reaction happens from the threat of this losing. A 6 defends a community and reacts, because the community helps the 6 be emotionally stable and not have show weaker emotions.


The 6’a doubt also causes a lot of fluctuation in behavior, that can at times project emotionally. But a 6’s fundamental issue is being hyper logical, to where things overthink, and things start believing as real, then doubt happens, and there’s a constant push-pull.

With a 4 fix, I see that a 6 rather than having negative emotionality, will mrke try and be around social outcasts, and work to defend these people to feel secure. It will gatekeep and attack what menaces this uniqueness. It will increase reactivity as well.. But a 4 fix doesn’t change the core 6 being a head type, whose concern is hyper rationalization… And logic.

The 6 with a 4 can express negative emotions in a group where they feel safer (strong) as one entity that is harder take down and that is not as “weak”. (And this would probably be a social, counterphobic 6).

The 6 defends it to begin with, because it attaches to this group, and the group helps it to look stronger emotionally and less weak. The having look stronger is a fear mechanism to ward off “predator”.



But there will not be a *willful* solo expression of victimization that shows vulnerability, in a core 6… Ever. And I say willful, because certain things outside of typology, like psychopathology, can matter.

And 6 is fundamentally about covering up weaknesses that make one appear more of a target for others to hunt down… And doubting whether one is right or not, from what I feel would be a tendency to be wrong often from the hyper-rationalization and projection, which puts them in more positions to get preyed upon… And the fear of making mistakes that can go a worst case scenario, and having frantically double check. The adaptation to a system and disconnecting from the emotional center also makes to not feel as certain, disconnected from inner guidance and messing external confirmation (not to be confused with emotional validation/recognition, which is image).

6 is the most emotive head type there is, because it’s reactive… It’s just that reactivity only happens when a reactive type doesn’t get what wants (4 to be seen and valued for its identified with self-image and qualities, 6 with security and certainty, 8 with power and control).. And doesn’t equate to a constant spraying of emotions, or highly histrionic, bleeding of emotions.

[Braingel]

Even if 6’s aren’t vastly logical (likely is a feeler in mbti) they will think they are and use the logic poorly and fixate on it, or borrow that of others (probably they’d seek thinking types)..

Logical reason is trusted first and foremost, even if it is incorrect (and the 6 will fight that it is right, and when in doubt, seek confirmation through others or some object).

[Braingel]

I see social lead as the most complex instinct; mating has ensue to result in births… The sustenance of the life form has take its course.. Social is an evolution to where once these two things establish, it then can look for bonds.. Social is almost certainly the newest instinctual focus..


Reproduction and sustenance are more significant than social bonds, and arguably, the social means just help these two things come about and that’s probably what made it develop.. (The more social contact, the more reproductive opportunity, the more able to gather resources).. And the more complex life that has allowed society to form. Society is probably built by social lead. It gives more meaning to the life beyond just.. Trying to survive. Of course all instincts have evolved, but I would say social made this possible to begin with. Secondary emotions form from it and language, which is social (language is).


Social has enabled more mating opportunities with social media around the planet, has made more things like massage therapy, able to meet with SP.. And of course, SP and SX have allowed social to maintain and they fuel the developments of one another..


I would say there is a reason social and attachment have some semblance. It’s because social issues an adaptation to better survive.. Attachment is a matter of adaptation to survive… But social itself doesn’t make someone adaptive, more that the whole concept of social, I feel was an adaptation to better meet SP and SX needs.


Both of these two things are the most ideal types for society… Sexual was probably once more common than social, but social being in more of a demand, has genetically produced of more… So now it is the second most common type… But you require SP to uphold all life (which makes it the most important and thus needed instinct. Sexual allows more life to continue on and pass social generations, social enables these to meet more and adds more meaning to the life, like language and communication).


So in spite social being the most ideal like attachment, it will never be able be the most common instinct… Because the instinct that upholds life itself is most important and thus, requires.


SP is the pillar that upholds the society, a social means.. And all life forms out in society.. There is a reason social isn’t as noticeable in nature, where it isn’t needed to survive.


I would say social is the most soulful function. Most religions are trying to drill social focus on a person.. Buddhism tries make one compassionate towards others.. Christianity is about ”brotherhood”..


But all instincts are spiritual and life lessons, because they all origin from a source, and have different focuses.. It is spiritual to have a clean body, it is spiritual to have a soulmate one connects to.. And so it is to have a society that focuses on the spiritual directions of these two things and have a language and symbols to put spiritual premise and concepts to..

[Braingel]

I see social lead as the most complex instinct; mating has ensue to result in births… The sustenance of the life form has take its course.. Social is an evolution to where once these two things establish, it then can look for bonds.. Social is almost certainly the newest instinctual focus..


Reproduction and sustenance are more significant than social bonds, and arguably, the social means just help these two things come about and that’s probably what made it develop.. (The more social contact, the more reproductive opportunity, the more able to gather resources).. And the more complex life that has allowed society to form. Society is probably built by social lead. It gives more meaning to the life beyond just.. Trying to survive. Of course all instincts have evolved, but I would say social made this possible to begin with. Secondary emotions form from it and language, which is social (language is).


Social has enabled more mating opportunities with social media around the planet, has made more things like massage therapy, able to meet with SP.. And of course, SP and SX have allowed social to maintain and they fuel the developments of one another..


I would say there is a reason social and attachment have some semblance. It’s because social issues an adaptation to better survive.. Attachment is a matter of adaptation to survive… But social itself doesn’t make someone adaptive, more that the whole concept of social, I feel was an adaptation to better meet SP and SX needs.


Both of these two things are the most ideal types for society… Sexual was probably once more common than social, but social being in more of a demand, has genetically produced of more… So now it is the second most common type… But you require SP to uphold all life (which makes it the most important and thus needed instinct. Sexual allows more life to continue on and pass social generations, social enables these to meet more and adds more meaning to the life, like language and communication).


So in spite social being the most ideal like attachment, it will never be able be the most common instinct… Because the instinct that upholds life itself is most important and thus, requires.


SP is the pillar that upholds the society, a social means.. And all life forms out in society.. There is a reason social isn’t as noticeable in nature, where it isn’t needed to survive.


I would say social is the most soulful function. Most religions are trying to drill social focus on a person.. Buddhism tries make one compassionate towards others.. Christianity is about ”brotherhood”..


But all instincts are spiritual and life lessons, because they all origin from a source, and have different focuses.. It is spiritual to have a clean body, it is spiritual to have a soulmate one connects to.. And so it is to have a society that focuses on the spiritual directions of these two things and have a language and symbols to put spiritual premise and concepts to..

Have more meaning and relationships because of communication and secondary emotions. There is no way, I see, to have secondary emotions without language. If you look at an isolated child, they present as mentally retarded and retain the developmental age as a child cognitively and emotionally.

[Braingel]

Without language, a human would be no different than a wild animal.. I believe that language and a social drive in the instinct, has made a prefrontal cortex and hippocampus enlarge.. More cognitive focuses and need for memory retention.


This implies that everyone has all three instincts in them, but the focuses vary… And they all are in, out of a repeated symbiosis of SX, SP and SO interplaying as the earth and its life forms continue to orbit throughout time… All developments that help to uphold life.. It is possible that one day, a new, more advanced instinct can become.. And then, the enneagram would be outdated and not made measure those psyches.

[Braingel]

Perhaps socionics and mbti functions will even increase their numbers… Combinafions and the sort.. Fe is probably the newest function, with a social correspondence.. There is a reason most Fe dominants are social leads and not often, if ever they are, socially blinded.

[necrosebud]

Sexual is 1-1 because it concerns in the attraction of a mate.. One can’t be sexual without a focus on reproductive behaviors. 1-1 intimacy also involves this, and sexual doms are concerned about appearing sexually attractive, which goes on steroids if image.

I see it as broader concern with desirability, beyond ‘mating behaviors’ since it’s about personality so it has well intangible and subjective implications
and that’s not all, and it’s not just for sx doms necessarily just the idea of sexual instinct

and no adrenaline focus - I don’t think I agree with that. Intensity can come in many forms, not everyone is a fan of idk going on a roller coaster. I don’t think I even get an adtenaline rush out of it lol, and I’m not sure everyone does. Seems Se valuing if anything.

and it’s “one to one” on very elemental and energetic level. It’s because of the laser focus. So it pervades many things

i also don’t think social is the same as “attachment” or “bonding” depends on what kind of attachment or bonding

attachment anyway is a crucial concept for human/human behavior in general it may encompass all instincts or at least I am wary of assigning it to a single instinct (with the implication so last people don’t experience attachment to the same degree or care about it etc. and I would be very skeptical of that)

[Braingel]

Something I’ve written..

My moment of venting frustration:


I’ve realized it for a long time, but this world makes it hard to come by health. This doesn’t mean that someone shouldn’t try to be healthy, but with things like air pollution, expensive food, sugar as an addictive substance that is more in its addictive tendency than cocaine.. The emotional atmosphere permeating society in stress, emotional neglect, turning away those who need compassion the most..


There are so many reasons why society isn’t healthy, and nothing is done to better this. It is no wonder most people never peak towards their enneagrammtic integrating point.


I have been trying make healthy choices to quell my rheumatoid arthritis.. And with the budget I am given, it is hard to sustain things that need for me to be able eat what can 100% support my body amid its flare..


I today ate two 100% plant-based, ultra grain avocado toasts.. An orange tumeric juice, plant-based milk… And 3 chlorophyll waters (each 4.50$ each. Every single one of these drinks is in a glass bottle, and so is very, very healthy, and they’re all organic and non GMO).. This alone made me spend 60$ I had received for Christmas. I am a horrible arbiter of money, and anything financial.. But still. This didn’t leave me full, and now I am hungry… Had I eaten more today, I’d be spending like 75$ to just try and help my body amid its flare…


I absolutely love eating healthy and doing healthy things for my body when needed, but I am shit with money.


The awful thing of this all, is that this did mostly stop my flare up, I’ve had minuscule pain upon my juice and avocado toast fasting..


I don’t want to be one of those whole lifelong medicated people for a condition, and I am trying avoid that… I don’t wanna when I have to one day get my own insurance just grapple as a medical patient and sicken my body furthermore.. But healthy, good tasting food.. Is extremely hard to get…


I believe hypnosis can possible extricate my rheumatoid.. And especially if I can juice for whilst I undergo that.. But..


This whole society that does little to allow health, and then lets you suffer sick, and even for some cases, punishes your illness.. Is the real sickness that causes sick in this world.


I feel like just visualizing future food filling my stomach may help a bit.. But this whole thing is just awful.


I had been recently in a car trip and all that was taken to was Ralph’s. I got really flared up when I ate their deli chicken, which I knew would probably not help me.. But when I eat this organic hummus at Ralph’s, it never fills me… I am not even a huge consumer of meat.. I eat less than 12% of meat in my diet. And on the Christmas Day, all that was able to to was 7 Eleven… They, aside from these organic Justin dark chocolate cashew milk peanut butter cups and kombuchas(which I got) had absolutely nothing healthy to eat there…. Sometimes they’ve these Lenny’s vegan cookies, but they didn’t at that one.. (Unless they were out)..


It is terrible, that in your average convenience 7/11, there is no healthy choice. Sometimes it’s impossible to not eat there if you’re out of town long distances of rural roads..


I am disgusted by how nothing is done in society, to allow emotional, physical and spiritual health… In the everyday type of living way, from how grocery stores and convenience stores are, to how society deals with trauma and anything mental or emotional, how healthcare systems are set up both for physical and emotional means. I’ve before given my vision of how a “psych ward” should really be a placement in the wilderness in some type of shrine setting, with compassion given, nature being connected with, and things like aromatherapy.


Society essentially decides early on who will be healthy in the sense of social means, with ostracizing the eccentricity (as this doesn’t as much enable the survival or flow of it), and then this can predispose certain health conditions.. And then there appears to be lifelong battles in the healthcare system, where people are medicated and not even addressing the roots of the illness. Some commit suicide or turn to crime..


And since I’ve had my mega revelation 6 coming years ago, out of thin air.. I haven’t ever blamed a human for being sick.. I do not believe there is any sort of thing as an evil human.. Just tendencies that are ugly, and that permeate illness and psychological states in living forms relative to how the environment receives their inherent make up, and with factors within the environment, often determined by a collective decision, like with polluting gases… That further destabilize developments spiritually, mentally and physically.


Feeling hatred for a person doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to blame them.


If people have 95% or more of serotonin and neurotransmitters form in their gut, and it is nearly impossible to sustain this healthfully, how can people actually blame a person for psychological breakdowns..


Sometimes I wonder if something like bipolar and schizophrenia can actually be treated with something like a mostly plant-based diet, instead of trying to dope all of it up in lifelong medication.. Which would be scrutinized as “pseudoscientific”..


Society is filled with people who try to survive, and as this happens, sickness is formed to where a soul becomes mostly inhibited to meet and learn its full potential. And instead of encourage soul developments, society will ignore, punish, blame, and financially charge the sickness on the three domains a conscious is met with.


People are too narrow-sighted and can only ingrain in the present and past, not transform the time zones of all three places of past, present and future as they are made for.. Because survival mode, for an average person, let’s only to dwell present or past.


Politics are hoped for by most people to bring a resolution, when this isn’t the means society needs to go by. Society needs more reflection, looking at how nature intends life to be… And most these politics are just wasted time with little soul means to develop.


Your average person in society is soul-blinded, and thus in their conscious, soulless. And it isn’t even the fault of these people.. I am only aware, because I have sensitivities and specific qualities that instill more awareness, pattern grasping, and I am not the average of a person.


Very little care is given to intrapsychic life and intra development in general..


Psychologists just medicate a person to make them functional members of society, and it give what actually is needed to fully process what has happened, and look at the way the individual needs for their own self to heal, which isn’t ubiquitous to psyches.. There is no soul in modern psychology.


There is no care for what an individual has actually suffered, and instead of honor the intrapsychic life, people have to compare, relate, and blend… Perhaps it wouldn’t be for a certain type of person, but it to me, would hinder my soul development if I let this happen to myself, and there’s a reason I don’t go to support groups or things of this sort.


An average person, by no choice of their own, devours other souls, in order to try and feed their own, to try survive, to keep “trying” to develop into their soul, but they are never aware the entire means to be on Earth is to develop for this. And they continue living life devouring from trying to just live.


People have to label and have this means to classify a person… And identify them by this label, rather their inherent essence and frequency that only they will ever emit. The energy pattern and combination they make in their own pattern of traits, that make them an individual, along with the life path and experiences that shape these traits and result in an infinite of existences that never will repeat or quantify themselves.

I believe that a more ideal future can be the result of minds that become aware of what actually needs to happen in society… Nothing political.. Nothing persecuting.. Nothing of any modern education beyond the fundamentals of life and nature itself.. To where things like health will become a human birthright, and not something has to be put through a survival race for each waking hour of a day.
And to where an average soul in society actually knows itself as a soul, and values its inherent traits that make it the individual pattern of matter it is within the energy swirls of the universe.

I believe that this will one day happen, in at least isolated places.. And that is what I want to live for..



I hope that people rather than talk of all the crap of war, instead confront the ones that are their inner.. Because if inner wars resolve, the outer ones cease… If there was ever a warfare, I would try escape society, and live in my own ideal place.. Away from the world.. Rather than fear if a war will come though and affect me, I would try to just live with people I care for, and dedicate life fully to undisturbed contemplation as I’ve always wanted..

[Braingel]

Something I wrote the other day:

A personal observation I have made about head types, is they tend to show love by trying to problem solve things, which really annoys me and I’ll explain why.


In the case of core 5, I’ve also noticed they will try and show love by sharing knowledge and information with a person, go out of their way to info dump on things.. I don’t mind this.


I really dislike the head approach I’ve noticed of this, because they are too focused generally, on trying to resolve issues, rather than acknowledge emotions.


I’ve straight up told a 592 I don’t want him to resolve my issues unless he acknowledges my emotions and what I’ve to say first.. (He is the one I am talking to in the screenshot)..


I have had an issue with a 6 earlier today… With him trying solve all my issues and secure me, and whilst he is more vocal and acknowledging of emotions on some degree, probably because he’s a feeler, he doesn’t do this enough..


I believe image types primarily show love and care through acknowledgment. Acknowledgment of emotions and of certain qualities.


Head types are the most disconnected from the image center, more commonly are a heart last fix.. And I can see why it would be..


I have a hunch that gut type may show love more in service and taking action…


In the case of the 592, his positive outlook will make him want joke around more, which really bothers me as well, because it takes away from my expressed emotions..


So, I believe that not only these centers give love in this way, *but want receive love* in this way.. And other centers maybe would view it as support or duty, or whatever…


5 love languages would tie into some of this and instinctual centers as well, and I’ve some ideas with this.. But as the core basis of my self-observation of an image type, noticing other image types, including 2 and 3, and seeing a lot of head types, I see a clear pattern. And with gut, it is more a hunch. Even thinking on this now, my core 1 grandpa definitely does give to others through serving and really, really appreciates when others will for him, do. And my sister’s core 9, and even though he is abusive, core 8 father would by providing.. (I actually have even heard my father growing up, in an abusive way, but he still was measuring his own warped version of “love”— “what do you *do* for me/the family?”).


Naturally, someone’s primary leading area would bias in how affection both expresses and is demanded. It is the most perceived important thing to an ego..


I believe tritype may have a slight amount of a role.. A 4 fixed head may be more sensitive towards a person’s individual emotions being acknowledged as their own and to see that they are meaning something (as well as their separate from other qualities), a 2 fixed one may more be of needing one’s good deeds acknowledged, 3 fix their excellence and progress, and the sort.


I don’t care of whether something is backed by science or not (am saying this to make a point of maybe there’s more to this), but perhaps the 5 love languages got mixed results in their studies, because it is indeed valid, but is more nuanced and overlaps some into the enneagram… Or even Jungian functions with a suggestive placement..


There was also once a core 7 in the discord community, whom I would express myself to in dm.. He would also always try offer solutions and always frustrated that I wouldn’t improve in my negativity.. And dwelled on in my pain..

[Metamorph]

So, I believe that not only these centers give love in this way, *but want receive love* in this way.. And other centers maybe would view it as support or duty, or whatever…

Enneagram is probably just corporate stuff but that's probably true of some people. Personally, I don't want to talk about problems, I want to solve problems so I don't have problems, and other people being the same is good with me. But, love languages and apology languages are possibly also just a way to mask problems. Misery loves company and all that. Regarding the apology languages, the last thing I want is for someone to just say sorry and keep screwing up. In fact, if they actually fix the problem I don't care if they say sorry at all. Sometimes sorry is more like an excuse.

[Metamorph]

You don't have to believe in enneagram, love languages, socionics, etc. just because you believe in ESP and went to a clairvoyant circle. You don't have to give a chance to every single type of fringe idea just to believe in some. Do you have to believe the Earth is flat to believe in ESP? No you don't. Scientists are debating lots of ideas between themselves all the time and lots of the ESP stuff is published in mainstream journals like Nature, while the flat Earth theory is decidedly not, and the five love languages, enneagram, socionics, etc. are also not.

I don't think it's ever good to look at what society does and be like "I'll just do everything the opposite way!" For one that's a good way to become literally a Nazi... or a tankie. Oh, wait, I'm on 16t. All Internet forums are awful, and at this point I think every last one of them is cursed. I've been on multiple forums that shut down, but only last night have I really thought about why there's a reason they keep repeatedly shutting down, even though things that seem very superficially similar like chatrooms and social media do not.

[The Reality Denialist]

https://grammarist.com/phrase/misery-loves-company/

It is said by some that wallowing only exacerbates your problems. The issue is that you are not working with the problem, but you are enslaved by it. Forgetting your pain is probably not the ideal but gaining right proportions through experiences by increasing perspectives is advisable. Keys to the ToM. The funny thing is that by gaining much more experiences over many states probably lowers your change to misinterpret others, which lowers neuroticism in the long run.

[FreelancePoliceman]

https://grammarist.com/phrase/misery-loves-company/

It is said by some that wallowing only exacerbates your problems. The issue is that you are not working with the problem, but you are enslaved by it. Forgetting your pain is probably not the ideal but gaining right proportions through experiences by increasing perspectives is advisable. Keys to the ToM. The funny thing is that by gaining much more experiences over many states probably lowers your change to misinterpret others, which lowers neuroticism in the long run.

Ignoring your problems doesn't work in the end. I don't think that spiritual suffering can be overcome just by willing it. Unless maybe by someone stronger than most people realistically can be.

I know a couple believers in positivity and magical thinking. Both are depressed people; they just try to repress their depression for most of the day. So I haven't seen the "just stop wallowing bro" advice work very well. Also, I think another reason this kind of advice is popular is that people don't like depressed people.

Anyway, I think wallowing has its upsides. Wouldn't get a lot of thought and creativity without it.

[The Reality Denialist]

Ignoring your problems doesn't work in the end. I don't think that spiritual suffering can be overcome just by willing it. Unless maybe by someone stronger than most people realistically can be.

I know a couple believers in positivity and magical thinking. Both are depressed people; they just try to repress their depression for most of the day. So I haven't seen the "just stop wallowing bro" advice work very well. Also, I think another reason this kind of advice is popular is that people don't like depressed people.

Anyway, I think wallowing has its upsides. Wouldn't get a lot of thought and creativity without it.

Well, aren't you saying that you work with it rather by willingly being in shackles?

[FreelancePoliceman]

Well, aren't you saying that you work with it rather by willingly being in shackles?

I'm saying it's not a question of will. You suffer no matter what. You can either acknowledge your suffering or pretend that you aren't pained. Pretending doesn't fix the problem though.

[Metamorph]

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can't lick 'em, join 'em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else.”

― Ursula K. Le Guin, The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas


There is a sort of real magic and a "real secret" in my opinion but it's not what people think. You can't just tell yourself to be happy and "positive affirmations" will make you feel like a dork and probably just increase narcissism which is the same as increasing neuroticism, you're just sitting there worrying if what you're telling yourself is true after all. However, suffering is boring and useless, I would say that actually happy families are all different and it's the unhappy ones which are all the same, and you should still make yourself happy and choose not to wallow even if pain is inevitable. Just that the real Illuminati knowledge is different than what the people who run around saying "I am so enlightened and I shall rule over the plebs" think. The people who think they're enlightened but aren't are clearly the worst people of all because of the value and power of the mind.

[FreelancePoliceman]

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can't lick 'em, join 'em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else.”

Unhappiness = evil = boredom = pain = despair = violence? She's saying nothing except that that which is considered bad she considers bad.

I don't know anyone who considers happiness stupid. I don't even understand how someone could say something like that. Happiness is sought by anyone able to seek.

Pain is inherently interesting to the person experiencing it. The moment it stops being interesting, it's no longer pain. And so empathy makes people interested in others' pain as well.

"To praise despair is to condemn delight" – This doesn't follow. She should read Ecclesiastes.

suffering is boring and useless

"Boring –" again, if you broke your ankle, you wouldn't be bored.

"useless" – only in the same way you might consider the turning of the earth on its axis useless.

[Metamorph]

Breaking your ankle is terribly boring, though. It means you're not doing what you would've been doing before you broke your ankle. Also Ecclesiastes is probably the most-misunderstood book in the world, even more than the short story The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas which is also widely misunderstood to be nihilistic despite the fact it has this quote right in it (I used to just listen to all the people who said it was definitely nihilistic which was the source of an argument with End on this site ages ago, but now I no longer listen to people just because they say they are very prestigious I think that's clearly not the case. Ecclesiastes is kind of the same thing to be honest, except Ecclesiastes is part of religion as well and the Bible is the most-bought book, while Ursula K. Le Guin books are nowhere close.)

The Bible Passage People Mistake For Good News - Lifeway Research

[necrosebud]

"Psychologists just medicate a person to make them functional members of society, and it give what actually is needed to fully process what has happened, and look at the way the individual needs for their own self to heal, which isn’t ubiquitous to psyches.. There is no soul in modern psychology."

Most psychologists don't prescribe medications though
if you mean psychiatrists, from what I understand, they may not have all that much training in research/statistics (relevant to evidence based treatments for example)

[The Reality Denialist]

[Braingel]

I feel that an issue with any typology.. Not merely enneagram itself, is that often new interpretations create (mostly amid Ne types, I would say).. And rather than actually averting on evolving the system to a better, more defined one, people invent a new system that is almost altogether a new form of that typology..


Examples—


Enneagram:


Ichazo invented the enneagram based on Gurdjieff and philosophers like Kant (I don’t study any direct philosophy and haven’t looked into, as I would rather retain my own, original view. Indirectly, you can say I will, as philosophy infuses most things in life, and typology is as such)..


Naranjo changed definitions… And made a pathological mostly form of enneagram..


RH changed definitions, most notably I would say in types 2 and 6.. Their 2 is more of a socionics ese, and naranjo’s 2, an SEE/EIE (not complaining they’re different, they just specifically capture different variations of 2, rather than altogether changing the concept completely).. I forgot say, this would be a modern view of socionics..


Enneagrammer: completely changed Riso and Hudson’s attachment definition and the instincts being aligned more with animal drives..


Cognitive functions and Jung:


Jung: invented typology as is known in functions..


Isabel Meyers and Katherine Cook Briggs (mbti): redefined some function definitions, and made a different 4 stack


John Beebe: expanded to 8 model, which I would say is a vast improvement, and his system is easily the best one… One of only cases that actually improved, other than maybe Maitri with enneagram, but I am only looking into her now..


Vultology: bastardized typology and made a bunch of Juan’s Si lead sensory subjective impressions in a Ti loop systemization… Some of it is probably an accuracy, but others are conflated with other things..


OPS: a very watered down system (very Te result type in socio), that also proposes loops, but then animal stacking..


Socionics:


Augusta Aushura: founder of socionics, defined things mostly with the mental and vital rings, and largely emphasized ego blocks..


Model G: viktor Gulenko refined typology in a very weird way, with function placements not even much making sense (like the ignoring function being 1D, the suggestive 3D, which goes against basic ego block construct)..


WSS: did away with mental and vital with classic aushura and empathized values.. It is more of the food one eats and internalizes, rather than the digestion of one’s mind and its process..


Model L: it is improving things as well, I suppose, but basically redefines charges, and expands dimensionality of functions, with added ones of each Pe, Pi, Ji, or Je lean in its inherent area, and its opposite (so like, one can have 3D Ti-N, and 2D Ti-S).


———


People will always reinvent and change things. It is apart of evolution. Religions make anew forms, human-made laws change, opinions sometimes change.. It’s a dynamic process.. But, this doesn’t mean that all change is a good thing.


What is natural and not made of human construct is always going to be more accurate, for the most part.


How some types are defined now and today, are bound to change and invent in new forms as well.. But if these definitions don’t really improve in much or clarify a deeper portrait of things, it’s mostly worthless to even bother with.


And this of course doesn’t even just go with typology, but for pretty much anything.. As like the earth itself, things orbit a course..


The laws that are today in society will change one day, for better and for worse and it will repeat, until there is no longer an earthly need. Health changes for better and for worse…


Even astrology was put as to different forms; Vedic, Draconic, tropical..


People invent new things, which isn’t bad itself.. But people aren’t always able to take the best parts of things and find what is valid in each and is not as much so..


One day, a type like 4 can be equivocal to a synthesis of 6, 9 and 1… One day, a criminal of today, can be viewed a saint in another time… One day, nothing will matter and it will be the end of this reality, and new things that aren’t yet known of, will matter.


What doesn’t ever change is that potentiality that was always put into place.


Pretty much most else is an illusion through time, and only the realization of what will be immortal in oneself and in others and in life forms that tie into essence, will ever really survive even death, when it is put into concept and not even life and neutralizes.


You see, through time, things die. Through conceptual birth, things die and rebirth.. They forget and die for time, and come back into life in forces that realize them, as in minds they internalize, and generate movement and life, once more..


Existence is itself a concept, of course, and physical life forms will also fit this pattern.. And the concepts within a person have both dynamic and static means within… For it is what even allows evolution to ensue, to reach an optimization of an essence… If it was never changing, then no development would exist.


To me, a lot of these systemic changes are evident of stages where an individual psyche was at a moment of time in its creation.. And because understanding isn’t this static thing, it may not even be the same anymore, in the future.. How someone designed a system, belief, or whatever, may very well have by the end of a person’s life or study of something, radically redefined..


The most important thing of any typology, is to capture the things within a person that never change, and this would be someone’s inherent potentiality of how overtime, they can evolve, relative to their inherited temperament with outer influences receiving this, and working in a constant marriage of birthing forward, a new person each day in some new way.. Rarely, it for some may be the psyche that does, and for more transient minds that are disconnected, it can frequent..


How healthy a person is.. What behaviors a person can have and this sort.. aren’t fixed, at all. It’s only the potentiality that within one’s inherent ed psyche, could have gone this way… And this is really the thing that has to avert upon, that isn’t enough.


I mean, in a literal way of saying it’s fixed, it would be in the sense all behaviors a person “can” have are there present in the energy form of the mind.. But what I mean is which behavior shows from this potential isn’t fixed.


A better word perhaps is “show”.


People mistake a surface for one’s own core.. And this is only one potential that is showing, that a person can become through time in health level, relative to their internal and external stimulus…


Rather than look at the most important parts of a typology or anything, but that I am not talking about in this now, people rely on some arbitrarily defined thing, to characterize the very intra of a person, the soul and how this person is, with its set ways that it can be… This is why things in my opinion, don’t understand very well by most people, and it leads to a lot of bias.. Most people don’t even seem very well aware of their own intra and its highest expression of possibility..

[Braingel]

Evolution of an ego form, a physical form, I would say, and its mental and emotional self mistaking itself in this for most people.. Is to survive conditions for the most part.. Someone’s survival mechanism, in a person operating from this place, which.. Would be most inventors of typology, would be seeing things myopically from this perspective of their illusion.. This isn’t the evolution of a soul, or necesssrily of an intra psyche… It may not even depict the intra lives beyond itself and what it knows.. Leading for them to not even create the possibility that another person is in their own essence..

[Braingel]

A good question that oneself should ask, when having made anything in typology, is, “Is how I am trying to survive influencing how I see types?” Is there some bias that distorts a view that maybe, one doesn’t want see accurately for the ego bias it roots within, and is spotted.. After all, something like the enneagram tic types are cognitive distortions. A type may be better overall seeing things broader, like Ne… But different functions perceive realities in a different way, and using all functions would give the best means of a system.. Because then, a function one doesn’t inherently understand well on their own, may be covered by a different outlook stronger in it better.

[Braingel]

You don't have to believe in enneagram, love languages, socionics, etc. just because you believe in ESP and went to a clairvoyant circle. You don't have to give a chance to every single type of fringe idea just to believe in some. Do you have to believe the Earth is flat to believe in ESP? No you don't. Scientists are debating lots of ideas between themselves all the time and lots of the ESP stuff is published in mainstream journals like Nature, while the flat Earth theory is decidedly not, and the five love languages, enneagram, socionics, etc. are also not.

I don't think it's ever good to look at what society does and be like "I'll just do everything the opposite way!" For one that's a good way to become literally a Nazi... or a tankie. Oh, wait, I'm on 16t. All Internet forums are awful, and at this point I think every last one of them is cursed. I've been on multiple forums that shut down, but only last night have I really thought about why there's a reason they keep repeatedly shutting down, even though things that seem very superficially similar like chatrooms and social media do not.

Hm, I feel that you are saying this broadly, but this isn’t personally my focus on things, trying an idea for a sake, or to do everything the exact opposite (even though I do not wish to live a very ordinary life).. I am attracted to things that instill of depth… And that I can play with pattern recognition.. But I realize that most typology is illusory, as I’d written last night in my own realizations. The only thing that is there in essence, is the inherent potentiality a person was at birth, set to have.. Most typologies can’t even capture this, I believe probably, because it’s something too abstract for most people to fathom.

[Braingel]

"Psychologists just medicate a person to make them functional members of society, and it give what actually is needed to fully process what has happened, and look at the way the individual needs for their own self to heal, which isn’t ubiquitous to psyches.. There is no soul in modern psychology."

Most psychologists don't prescribe medications though
if you mean psychiatrists, from what I understand, they may not have all that much training in research/statistics (relevant to evidence based treatments for example)

What I had meant is that most psychologists just refer someone to a psychiatrist and endorse medication. I haven’t really seen very many psychologists who are open to ways that are of the individual.

Clinical psychology is averted on universal principles. And those exist, and things need know as a pattern, but when treating a person in their intra world.. You can’t just one size what works or how this person feels…

[Braingel]

You don't have to believe in enneagram, love languages, socionics, etc. just because you believe in ESP and went to a clairvoyant circle. You don't have to give a chance to every single type of fringe idea just to believe in some. Do you have to believe the Earth is flat to believe in ESP? No you don't. Scientists are debating lots of ideas between themselves all the time and lots of the ESP stuff is published in mainstream journals like Nature, while the flat Earth theory is decidedly not, and the five love languages, enneagram, socionics, etc. are also not.

I don't think it's ever good to look at what society does and be like "I'll just do everything the opposite way!" For one that's a good way to become literally a Nazi... or a tankie. Oh, wait, I'm on 16t. All Internet forums are awful, and at this point I think every last one of them is cursed. I've been on multiple forums that shut down, but only last night have I really thought about why there's a reason they keep repeatedly shutting down, even though things that seem very superficially similar like chatrooms and social media do not.

I just naturally do “opposite” things aside from not wanting an ordinary life, because I am autistic (diagnosed). So of course what I focus on is going to naturally oppose typicality.

[Braingel]

You don't have to believe in enneagram, love languages, socionics, etc. just because you believe in ESP and went to a clairvoyant circle. You don't have to give a chance to every single type of fringe idea just to believe in some. Do you have to believe the Earth is flat to believe in ESP? No you don't. Scientists are debating lots of ideas between themselves all the time and lots of the ESP stuff is published in mainstream journals like Nature, while the flat Earth theory is decidedly not, and the five love languages, enneagram, socionics, etc. are also not.

I don't think it's ever good to look at what society does and be like "I'll just do everything the opposite way!" For one that's a good way to become literally a Nazi... or a tankie. Oh, wait, I'm on 16t. All Internet forums are awful, and at this point I think every last one of them is cursed. I've been on multiple forums that shut down, but only last night have I really thought about why there's a reason they keep repeatedly shutting down, even though things that seem very superficially similar like chatrooms and social media do not.

I just naturally do “opposite” things aside from not wanting an ordinary life, because I am autistic (diagnosed). So of course what I focus on is going to naturally oppose typicality. I am far from being close to a typical pattern of a person, no pattern is exact, but I am way, way beyond any commonality of it. To ask me to be, is to not read who and how I am in correct. I wasn’t made for the patterns of the world, most of them, and must sail my own route.

A lot of enneagram is corporate, mostly because of its modern manipulations that take focus of of transformative means.. But this doesn’t make it overall, it’s easily the typology that is most concerned on essence and its potentiality for healthy or unhealthy presentations.

Most societal egos just aren’t ready to focus on emotions in this way, out of a bias oof where their own ego is, and anchor it to server the flow of society, even when it is dysfunctional.

And no, not everyone becomes a Nazi from this, that would be the negative potentiality.. Things are there with potential for both ways.. Perhaps yourself and your own experiences and potential traumas bias you in distrusting.. Deviation and of things I have said that maybe resonated wrongly than how I mean them from my own perspective, or of course, I could just word things in a way that the collective maybe doesn’t grasp as how I would mean them. Because it seems there is a skepticism of things, and this likely stems from an ego bias, it’s often an enneagram 6 one, but I will not bother much with this, given you don’t seem as open to enneagram..

[Braingel]

"Psychologists just medicate a person to make them functional members of society, and it give what actually is needed to fully process what has happened, and look at the way the individual needs for their own self to heal, which isn’t ubiquitous to psyches.. There is no soul in modern psychology."

Most psychologists don't prescribe medications though
if you mean psychiatrists, from what I understand, they may not have all that much training in research/statistics (relevant to evidence based treatments for example)

For instance, a person is “treatment resistant” in most areas of psychology, not merely psychiatry, if they don’t choose meds as their way.

I can’t tell you how many psychologists viewed me as this in youth facilities.. For not wanting medication, and preferring holistic routes.

[Braingel]

Enneagram is probably just corporate stuff but that's probably true of some people. Personally, I don't want to talk about problems, I want to solve problems so I don't have problems, and other people being the same is good with me. But, love languages and apology languages are possibly also just a way to mask problems. Misery loves company and all that. Regarding the apology languages, the last thing I want is for someone to just say sorry and keep screwing up. In fact, if they actually fix the problem I don't care if they say sorry at all. Sometimes sorry is more like an excuse.

It isn’t personally why I got into typology, but in all honest, typology has been very helpful for some of my autism social deficits, because I lack theory of mind. You may not know what this term is.. I do feel that a lot of typology is mostly made for autistic or highly traumatized people.. Probably most of them, but the enneagram..

It has made me understand people outside of my self, that I would’ve had a very hard time realizing, unless I had repeated trial and error experience, and I am far too introverted to subject to that much social interaction, that I would take me to get to that point..

[Braingel]

I just naturally do “opposite” things aside from not wanting an ordinary life, because I am autistic (diagnosed). So of course what I focus on is going to naturally oppose typicality. I am far from being close to a typical pattern of a person, no pattern is exact, but I am way, way beyond any commonality of it. To ask me to be, is to not read who and how I am in correct. I wasn’t made for the patterns of the world, most of them, and must sail my own route.

A lot of enneagram is corporate, mostly because of its modern manipulations that take focus of of transformative means.. But this doesn’t make it overall, it’s easily the typology that is most concerned on essence and its potentiality for healthy or unhealthy presentations.

Most societal egos just aren’t ready to focus on emotions in this way, out of a bias oof where their own ego is, and anchor it to server the flow of society, even when it is dysfunctional.

And no, not everyone becomes a Nazi from this, that would be the negative potentiality.. Things are there with potential for both ways.. Perhaps yourself and your own experiences and potential traumas bias you in distrusting.. Deviation and of things I have said that maybe resonated wrongly than how I mean them from my own perspective, or of course, I could just word things in a way that the collective maybe doesn’t grasp as how I would mean them. Because it seems there is a skepticism of things, and this likely stems from an ego bias, it’s often an enneagram 6 one, but I will not bother much with this, given you don’t seem as open to enneagram..

“Corporate” enneagram is basically

Katherine Fauvre
Beatrice Chestnut
Empathy Architects..

That's pretty much it. Dr. David Daniel’s and Enneagrammer wouldn’t be corporate, but wouldn’t be as in naturally a flow of spiritual growth.. Unless used well.

[Braingel]

Like even going on about the potentiality I talked about.. I find it so, so bizarre anyone can possibly try classify me as an extrovert. My issue is actually the reverse, where I’m too aware of my own self, MY internal processes, my own heart and head, that it causes interpersonal issues for myself. This is also partially on autism as well. Autism gets its name from the prefix “autos”. It’s being too stuck in oneself, and this is why I’ve said it’s rather odd for a person with true autism, and not merely traits, to be found as an extrovert…

When I am stressed, I certainly become more extroverted. I believe this is normal due to my disintegration point lines and my shadow… But to classify me as an extrovert, merely because my output is high, and because I can write a lot, or I can under stress be more objectively (outwardly) focused.. This doesn’t make any sort of sense, really. It’s more that the potentiality I see, of my inherent introversion, goes pathologically outward in still a VERY introverted way, where all my interpersonal communications are still intra, communicating things about my own inner life, my own views, my own insights, and pretty much ignoring almost everything in the outside, objective sphere, even when I put myself in it and write all about my own internally, unless the external things seep into my internal and affect me and then I write through *my* own self about them.

[Braingel]

Fe/E = Dynamic Emotional Processes. Ni/T = Deals with the evolution of a scenario over time. EIE = Emotional Inspiration (spurs people towards potential greatness of character); IEI = Timing of Relationships (advises when or when not to have relationships).

You'd probably be EIE-HC in Model G.

The thing is, there are a ton of issues with me being an EIE. I don’t fit Si brake or ignored Fi, at all. Nor do I rationality. I am actually quite gifted with relationships, even my boyfriend and online friends would agree with this.. I also don’t fit an EJ, beyond my “writing a lot” and people can probably misperceive my tone online, because they aren’t seeing it happen from a video.. Assume that I’m bossy and commanding.. And want be an authority.. And I also fit a lot of result type. Only thing of process is that I can be very detailed in when I communicate things about my own self, but I suck with details just about everywhere else. And even dislike details..

My biggest weakness is a lack of being organized (which I don’t mind myself, but it annoys others and does sometimes work not in my favor, but I need a bit of chaos and prefer not being organized), and me being too inwardly focused of my own self, and impractical.. As well as inaction and inability to commit and upkeep.. I don’t have issues in relaxing, or with forming and keeping relationships or not knowing when a time for a relation is..

[Braingel]

Fe/E = Dynamic Emotional Processes. Ni/T = Deals with the evolution of a scenario over time. EIE = Emotional Inspiration (spurs people towards potential greatness of character); IEI = Timing of Relationships (advises when or when not to have relationships).

You'd probably be EIE-HC in Model G.

The ITR patterns of an EIE also do not fit with myself, either.. As far as cognitive style, I fit both vortical synergetic and dialectical algorithmic.. My poems and stories I’ve written since middle school would definitely fit VS better..

[Braingel]

Fe/E = Dynamic Emotional Processes. Ni/T = Deals with the evolution of a scenario over time. EIE = Emotional Inspiration (spurs people towards potential greatness of character); IEI = Timing of Relationships (advises when or when not to have relationships).

You'd probably be EIE-HC in Model G.

I do the ladder a lot, and often help people out with this, it’s a regular ordeal for me, people even seek me for it https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...521a116ed4bda&


If I was a DA cog type, I would probably be an ILI over an EIE.. But it doesn’t work very well, for myself.

[Braingel]

The biggest argument someone can make for me being an ILI>IEI in G, is that I am depth-filled and fit a lot of right side.. But, I still do seek to simplify things ultimately, in many ways.. Inside maybe not as much, and I am a huge intra communicator, so it can throw off a person.. Other than Fe-, I don’t really fit the charges of a process type, very well..

I’ve to be blatantly honest and say there’s no 100% good type for me in model G.. I would actually type myself as a normalizer, it befits me of most. But yeah, iei is the best typing.. Me as an extrovert is kind of ridiculous.. And Si and Fi placements of an eie are pretty bad for myself, as is a Te role..

I just believe I am a very obtuse case, because I’m autistic (level 2 type), have complex ptsd badly, and I am a highly unusual enneagram type.. 4 core isn’t a very common type, a lot of typology wouldn’t capture it well in things as this.

[Braingel]

As far as process type.. ILi is the only reasonable typing for me in G.. But it fails at its Ni and Ti social mission, function charge majority not fitting but Fe- (probably bc I am a 4), and Te ego.

[Braingel]

In classical aushura, I am most likely an EII. It’s very weird for me to be an Fe ego in SCS, because the Fe is mental and something that is very consciously focused on, and I’m too consciously/mentally focused on my own feelings and distance to things.. In most modern socionics, I am an iei; WSS IEI, Talanov IEI (fit both Ni and Fe sub differently, but went Fe for how I can look pseudo eie ish, Filatova IEI).. Model G is the system that’s hardest to type in, but it’s either IEI-N, a very weird feeling ILI who has absent Te (which I find very unlikely), or an IEE.
@Metaphor had once typed me an eii a long time ago, and I was astounded, because I didn’t know anything about classical.. His typing has been by such, he and I recently had discussed.

[Braingel]

I know, EII sounds crazy for me, if you don’t actually know how classic aushura works. But I’m not at all conscious of my Fe and don’t seek to invoke reactions and emotional states in others consciously. Am very obvious to things outside of myself.

[Braingel]

My boyfriend had typed me as an eii, and I thought he was crazy, he is to be a pan jungian and to not limit it to classic.. But yeah, I thought metaphor was also way off.. Original socionics is way different..

[Braingel]

You can be different types in different systems simply because the originators of said implied systems have different perspectives that define things in ways that are relative to them.

Opinions via panjungianism are mostly misinformed; though there is overlap here and there.

Yeah, I know.. I am an EII classic, IEI most systems, and a G IEI/ILI/IEE (no type fits me good in G, I don’t really care for the model)..