Leaked draft says that Supreme Court has voted to overturn Roe v Wade

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I'm proud of my mom, she's usually middle of the road and hates talking about politics cuz she doesn't want to piss off Repulicunts even tho she naturally disagrees with them. But she is out there fighting for her own rights. We both a had good conversation about how women shouldn't be forced to love their rape babies. ((literally RE-RAPING them ugh)) It's like a dumb simple breeder mentality that a kid is always a good thing. I guess I'm a typical gay demon as I just eat kids for my own pleasure. ((I'm kidding ofc)) - like obviously, too far in the other direction wouldn't be good either but its too simple and dumb. REALISTICALLY- having a kid takes a lot of resources and energy in the world even tho they are cute and innocent, it DOES take a village to raise a child, but the village is often too naturally selfish and unwilling and u have to be in the right frame of mind to have a kid- instead of OOH I'M SO MUCH BETTER THAN U CUZ MY SEX MADE A KID AND URS DIDN'T. HAHAHAHA!' It's so childish and revolting. And u wonder why I hate most straight people???

spoiled and rich republicunts might not see this cuz they can't have true empathy for somebody and don't realize that having a kid isn't always the best idea, because they come from Sterile Vagina like Candace Cameron homes where nothing bad ((or interesting)) ever happens, so naturally it can't happen to anybody else, right? ((*I* was never raped so I guess then it never happens honh honh - /carelessly drinks a martini)) - and btw the passage in the Bible 'to be fruitful and multiply' WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT HETEROSEXUAL COPULATION- it was talking about growing crops and having Holy gay male sex to make the crops taste good. Remember that reproduction without care for the consequences is how CANCER itself operates. Pro-Life Republicunts are literal CANCER. Pro-choice doesn't mean pro-death, just that many times the most moral thing to do is to not bring a person in the world that is a drain on the resources.

[Poptart]

Did Democrats do anything to protect abortion by an actual law any time they've had a majority since Roe? No. They've had much more important priorities, like giving $40 billion to Ukraine so more Ukrainians would die in an unwinnable war, and singing God Bless America after the SCOTUS ruling.

Senate breakdown:
- 50 democrats
- 50 republicans
- 1 Kamala Harris tiebreaker

The senate attempted to pass abortion rights legislation earlier this year, but Joe Manchin is a pro-life democrat, and he voted against the bill. The final tally was 51-49.

Democrats could have acted (and maybe should have?) from the start of Biden’s term. Senators have fixed stances on abortion, so I’m not sure that the results of an earlier vote would have been any different. It’s possible that the Democrats were waiting for an opportune moment (one with max political pressure on Manchin) to vote on the bill.

As for anytime before that—any conservative majority Regan or later would have repealed a Roe law. And let’s be honest, an abortion rights law during the early Obama years would have been a political suicide mission for democrats, who were scrambling to pass Obamacare during this time. I think you were pretty young, so I’m not sure if you remember, but Obamacare mandated insurance companies to cover birth control for women. There was a huge backlash from conservatives, and religious organizations felt especially oppressed by the mandate lol.

I think the senate still has a shot at passing legislation if democrats manage to get buy-in from Lisa Murkowski or Susan Collins (pro-choice republicans). I dunno, maybe I’m just feeling pessimistic because I’m not holding my breath for a compromise and sort of expect that the Supreme Court would say it’s unconstitutional anyway.

[FreelancePoliceman]

Senate breakdown:
- 50 democrats
- 50 republicans
- 1 Kamala Harris tiebreaker

The senate attempted to pass abortion rights legislation earlier this year, but Joe Manchin is a pro-life democrat, and he voted against the bill. The final tally was 51-49.

Democrats could have acted (and maybe should have?) from the start of Biden’s term. Senators have fixed stances on abortion, so I’m not sure that the results of an earlier vote would have been any different. It’s possible that the Democrats were waiting for an opportune moment (one with max political pressure on Manchin) to vote on the bill.

As for anytime before that—any conservative majority Regan or later would have repealed a Roe law. And let’s be honest, an abortion rights law during the early Obama years would have been a political suicide mission for democrats, who were scrambling to pass Obamacare during this time. I think you were pretty young, so I’m not sure if you remember, but Obamacare mandated insurance companies to cover birth control for women. There was a huge backlash from conservatives, and religious organizations felt especially oppressed by the mandate lol.

I think the senate still has a shot at passing legislation if democrats manage to get buy-in from Lisa Murkowski or Susan Collins (pro-choice republicans). I dunno, maybe I’m just feeling pessimistic because I’m not holding my breath for a compromise and sort of expect that the Supreme Court would say it’s unconstitutional anyway.

Have you ever noticed how the Democrats are always exactly 1-2 senators short of passing any progressive legislation? If the Senate were 100% Democrats, 51 of them would vote against raising the minimum wage. There is always an excuse why they never do anything they claim they want to do. Yeah, with 49 senators I'm sure there's literally nothing they could do to reach a compromise over abortion, raise minimum wage, address skyrocketing housing costs, defang insurance companies (instead the ACA was just an enormous handout to them), and it's always supposedly because of Republicans + whatever number of conservative Democrats is needed to make sure this never happens. But when it's Ukraine or Israel or Saudi Arabia, sure lol, no questions asked, no cost is too great. It's only the people Democrats ostensibly represent they're unable to do anything for.

[sudo]

I guess I'm a typical gay demon

Not really, but they have a pretty tight grip on you, I'd say.

OOH I'M SO MUCH BETTER THAN U CUZ MY SEX MADE A KID AND URS DIDN'T

Yeah.

And u wonder why I hate most straight people

Not really.

it was talking about growing crops and having Holy gay male sex to make the crops taste good

In a more civilized age, you would have had your tongue cut out for spewing such blasphemous filth.

Pro-Life Republicunts are literal CANCER

No, I'm figurative cancer. Words have meanings.

the most moral thing to do is to not bring a person in the world

Regrettably, by the time abortion becomes an option, that ship has already sailed. Perhaps if you decide that having a child is not for you, a monastic life is more your speed? That would satisfy both conditions of being moral and preventing childbirth. At least donate to orphanages and abstain from sex, which you're at least already doing half of.

As a side note, I urge you to stop being the way that you are. The optimist in me likes to think that there's something to be gained from hearing every possible point of view, but after lurking for a few months, I haven't really been better off for reading any of your posts. You seem to be someone who is deeply troubled, who curses the world, but by wrapping it up in hyperbole and emotional display you can pass it off as just being eccentric or goofy. Either way, it sucks, and ranges from annoying to embarrassing to read.

[Poptart]

Have you ever noticed how the Democrats are always exactly 1-2 senators short of passing any progressive legislation? If the Senate were 100% Democrats, 51 of them would vote against raising the minimum wage. There is always an excuse why they never do anything they claim they want to do. Yeah, with 49 senators I'm sure there's literally nothing they could do to reach a compromise over abortion, raise minimum wage, address skyrocketing housing costs, defang insurance companies (instead the ACA was just an enormous handout to them), and it's always supposedly because of Republicans + whatever number of conservative Democrats is needed to make sure this never happens. But when it's Ukraine or Israel or Saudi Arabia, sure lol, no questions asked, no cost is too great. It's only for the people Democrats ostensibly represent they're unable to do anything for.

I forgot about the filibuster, so they actually needed 60 to pass, not 50. They could get rid of the filibuster with 50 votes and then pass the bill with 50 votes, but believe it or not, they’re 2 votes shy of removing the filibuster lol (:

And yes, I’ve noticed that democrats are always 1-2 votes short. Literally there’s a tie in the senate (50 R, 50 D), so of course it only takes 1 rogue democrat to destroy a majority vote.

So I just looked up a minimum wage map—thanks for that wake up call. How on earth does Texas still have a min. wage of $7.25?! Wtf that’s not even close to a livable wage!! And all of these other states in the South and Midwest are still at $7.25/hr. It actually looks quite a bit like the abortion ban map. States that refuse to raise their minimum wage happen to be the same states banning abortion. I hope congress acts to raise the minimum wage soon, especially with prices being so high now. People in these areas must know that states pass minimum wage legislation, so how do governors get away with this?

[End]

Babies also have no say in the matter if they are born without brains or live a stunted life because of their parents

Ok now this one's a bit personal so forgive my tone here because, well, fuck you. For some reason my mother told me her natal physician recommended her and dad to abort me. She said no (and dad accepted that decision) and thus I now exist to text angrily at you now. They told her I'd be a down-syndrome genetic defect riddled Frankenstein hot mess of a baby and thus it'd be better if she just killed me in her womb to spare everyone the heartache/trouble.

Well, how accurate was that forecast pray tell? I'm not the reincarnation of Brad Pitt in his prime but I am objectively less ugly than 80 percent of the males I see day to day and fucking hell being IQ 130+ is isolating as hell let me tell you.

Also, I'll point out that if the baby literally had no brain they'd fail to be a viable lifeform. Even insects have brains. Perhaps only a cell or two but brains they have. Stunted lives is also not a good excuse to literally murder them in the fucking womb of all things.

Yeah, using my own arguments, you can argue that children who are guaranteed to have major attachment issues may, possibly, be somehow morally murdered given the frighteningly disproportionate chances of them becoming serial killers, rapists, (insert most terrible person you can imagine ever), etc...

Still doesn't change the fact that you/they cannot and did not choose the how and why you now exist as a human being.

[ouronis]

Ok now this one's a bit personal so forgive my tone here because, well, fuck you. For some reason my mother told me her natal physician recommended her and dad to abort me. She said no (and dad accepted that decision) and thus I now exist to text angrily at you now. They told her I'd be a down-syndrome genetic defect riddled Frankenstein hot mess of a baby and thus it'd be better if she just killed me in her womb to spare everyone the heartache/trouble.

Well, how accurate was that forecast pray tell? I'm not the reincarnation of Brad Pitt in his prime but I am objectively less ugly than 80 percent of the males I see day to day and fucking hell being IQ 130+ is isolating as hell let me tell you.

Also, I'll point out that if the baby literally had no brain they'd fail to be a viable lifeform. Even insects have brains. Perhaps only a cell or two but brains they have. Stunted lives is also not a good excuse to literally murder them in the fucking womb of all things.

Yeah, using my own arguments, you can argue that children who are guaranteed to have major attachment issues may, possibly, be somehow morally murdered given the frighteningly disproportionate chances of them becoming serial killers, rapists, (insert most terrible person you can imagine ever), etc...

Still doesn't change the fact that you/they cannot and did not choose the how and why you now exist as a human being.

They can choose, and they have been for 50 years. Should we start collecting every wayside sperm that doesn't make it to the egg so all of them can live?

[ouronis]

Did Democrats do anything to protect abortion by an actual law any time they've had a majority since Roe? No. They've had much more important priorities, like giving $40 billion to Ukraine so more Ukrainians would die in an unwinnable war, and singing God Bless America after the SCOTUS ruling.

So just remember how important it is to vote in November guys. It's super important that we only elect the people who do nothing for their base.

We know all the politicians are satanists, but that doesn't mean you vote for Republicans.

[Poptart]

They can choose, and they have been for 50 years. Should we start collecting every wayside sperm that doesn't make it to the egg so all of them can live?

A truly innocent sperm will conquer his egg, penetrate it into submission, and emerge fully fertilized and victorious.

[chriscorey]

A truly innocent sperm will conquer his egg, penetrate it into submission, and emerge fully fertilized and victorious.

Sperm are creepy. They may not have brains but they definetly have an agenda.

[leckysupport]

This ruling sort of flies in the fact of the leftist position that there is a persistent neoliberal hegemony.

[FreelancePoliceman]

We know all the politicians are satanists, but that doesn't mean you vote for Republicans.

Hey, if you're a nutjob, they'll at least throw you a bone sometimes.

[Poptart]

Well, how accurate was that forecast pray tell? I'm not the reincarnation of Brad Pitt in his prime but I am objectively less ugly than 80 percent of the males I see day to day and fucking hell being IQ 130+ is isolating as hell let me tell you.

pics or shens

[End]

spoiled and rich republicunts might not see this cuz they can't have true empathy for somebody and don't realize that having a kid isn't always the best idea, because they come from Sterile Vagina like Candace Cameron homes where nothing bad ((or interesting)) ever happens, so naturally it can't happen to anybody else, right? ((*I* was never raped so I guess then it never happens honh honh - /carelessly drinks a martini)) - and btw the passage in the Bible 'to be fruitful and multiply' WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT HETEROSEXUAL COPULATION- it was talking about growing crops and having Holy gay male sex to make the crops taste good. Remember that reproduction without care for the consequences is how CANCER itself operates. Pro-Life Republicunts are literal CANCER. Pro-choice doesn't mean pro-death, just that many times the most moral thing to do is to not bring a person in the world that is a drain on the resources.

Oh boy, just got around to reading this thread in earnest and this... well I can't find a way to put this nicely so PolR it is. This hot mess of blatant projection and/or malicious misunderstandings is something only a Death Cultist could come up with.

I've often said it is likely a literal grace from God that I simply cannot get "the demonic perspective" on a visceral level. From a cold, academic aspect I can and do get it. They hate God. Children (especially the unborn) are innocent. God loves and values innocence. Destroying innocence angers and thus "hurts" God. Ergo, to hurt God as much as you can (i.e. to get the most efficiency out of any given action on this front) kill and corrupt the innocent. Killing a random adult is banal. Killing a random child is so much better from the perspective of the demonic.

Flawless logic, but as I also often say, things "on paper" are vastly different from things "in practice". Yeah, if you want to rebel against/hurt God that's how you do it. Kill kids instead of adults. Then there's the actual doing of that shit and feeling good about doing so as you do it.

To draw what is, from my own perspective, a literal equivalence. Could you feel good about pulping the head of some random infant? Stomp on a baby's head really good and hard. Make sure it died a quick though gruesome death? If you could choose between pulping the random adult's head over the infant's head which would you choose? Because if you are pro-choice and honest about it you'd pulp the infant's head to remain logically/ideologically consistent.

Feeling morally superior to the pro-lifers yet? That an "objective good" in your eyes? That is what most abortions amount to I'd have you note. Hell, assuming I'm right about this one and you're a card-carrying Death Cultist I'll give you a quip my own personal trainer gave me.

He's got a ton of "Black" male friends and he (and his friends) were very glad about this. Why? Well, as his friend put it:

"Black women always ask me 'Where are all the good men at?' I tell em' 'On the floors of Planned Parenthoods all across America.'"

His friend is, tragically, not wrong. Half of black babies get aborted. 60 million+ of all types since Roe v. Wade of ALL kinds. Imagine how much more progress (in any direction you'd so choose) could have been made if over 60 million+ dice got the chance to get rolled. Yeah, maybe another funny mustache man or two would have happened. But if we got another Tesla, Paul, Tolstoy, Tolkien, Ferrer, Sheen, etc it would have more than made up for it.

All the other examples I mentioned would have, funnily enough, probably done something to ensure the potential funny mustache man became a great artist over a great demagogue...

[End]

We know all the politicians are satanists, but that doesn't mean you vote for Republicans.

Correction: The people who actually make the decisions that politicians ultimately enact are satanists. They are but mere Policy Enforcers, not makers or distributors.

Gotta tap the sign again on this one for those who don't already know:



That the makers and distributors are mad about this only underscores how good ​this decision is for us mere subjects. Demons mad. Good!

[Poptart]

Oh boy, just got around to reading this thread in earnest and this... well I can't find a way to put this nicely so PolR it is. This hot mess of blatant projection and/or malicious misunderstandings is something only a Death Cultist could come up with.

I've often said it is likely a literal grace from God that I simply cannot get "the demonic perspective" on a visceral level. From a cold, academic aspect I can and do get it. They hate God. Children (especially the unborn) are innocent. God loves and values innocence. Destroying innocence angers and thus "hurts" God. Ergo, to hurt God as much as you can (i.e. to get the most efficiency out of any given action on this front) kill and corrupt the innocent. Killing a random adult is banal. Killing a random child is so much better from the perspective of the demonic.

Flawless logic, but as I also often say, things "on paper" are vastly different from things "in practice". Yeah, if you want to rebel against/hurt God that's how you do it. Kill kids instead of adults. Then there's the actual doing of that shit and feeling good about doing so as you do it.

To draw what is, from my own perspective, a literal equivalence. Could you feel good about pulping the head of some random infant? Stomp on a baby's head really good and hard. Make sure it died a quick though gruesome death? If you could choose between pulping the random adult's head over the infant's head which would you choose? Because if you are pro-choice and honest about it you'd pulp the infant's head to remain logically/ideologically consistent.

That is not the grace of god. That is an inability or unwillingness to understand the feelings and experiences of others. The only perspective you can see is your own. You have an apparent lack of empathy and a total disregard for human life outside the womb. You 'love' the unborn because they aren't here. You don't have to deal with them, see them, or listen to them.

You like the idea of playing god--deciding who gets to live and die--and you see no problem with sentencing an innocent person to death:

Or as H.L. Mencken put it: "Democracy is the theory that the people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard". He is also, funnily enough, popularly thought of as an ILI (his ardent and damn near fanatical admiration of Nietzche speaks to this fact as well).

I do (personally) absolutely adore his "utopian flight" of how any and all political office holders who just so happen to get assassinated likely have it coming and we should all welcome such a world. The assassin in this "utopia" is tried not on the grounds of whether or not they personally actually killed the fucker but, rather, whether the fucker they allegedly terminated deserved it!

That is, it is not "malum in se" to kill a politician. The real question is, instead, whether or not that given politician had it coming. If they did the assassin not only walks but gets a heartfelt pat on the back. If not the assassin gets unceremoniously killed for being the equivalent of a dumbass wokie.

You think of women in dehumanizing terms.

The thunder cunt is now so submissive and breedable it'll make your head spin if you are ignorant of what I've come to learn.

When it's a truly moral issue your "rights" mean jack shit. I had to rebuke my own mother on this front. Rape victims ought to be able to abort the baby she said! I had to remind her that nobody gets to pick their family. None of us got to choose the how and why we got conceived in all meaningful respects. Even if the baby was conceived during a rape that baby had no say in that matter. The unborn are truly and undeniably innocent on any and all logically conceivable counts. Give that child up for adoption if you think that's the best course of action, but for the love of God respect their innocence and at least allow them some chance to live a good and healthy life...

If a teenage girl is raped by a male relative and becomes pregnant, then how is she not innocent? She must sacrifice herself and her future because life means nothing to you once its actually here. Also, you would benefit from trying to see your mom's perspective here.

[End]

That is not the grace of god. That is an inability or unwillingness to understand the feelings and experiences of others. The only perspective you can see is your own. You have an apparent lack of empathy and a total disregard for human life outside the womb. You 'love' the unborn because they aren't here. You don't have to deal with them, see them, or listen to them.

I was referring to the demonic perspective. Those angels who know who God is, have been in his direct presence, and then choose to oppose him anyway. It's incomprehensible to me on the visceral level why one would oppose what they know to be an omnibenevolent being.

You like the idea of playing god--deciding who gets to live and die--and you see no problem with sentencing an innocent person to death:

It is exactly because I don't want innocents to die that I am pro-life. Children don't get to choose the circumstances of their conception. They do deserve the chance to live. Further discussion on this is unlikely to bear any fruit. You have your stance and I have mine. Both of us regard the other's stance in the worst moral terms. This is essentially a religious "debate" and once one has made up their mind on that front no amount of "reason" will convince the other side.

You'll have to reach a "crisis of faith" moment before you'll listen sadly. Those are harrowing and hard to induce. Hell, look into the circumstances regarding the author John C. Wright and why he renounced his atheism and converted to Catholicism. There are prayers God will answer if done with an earnest heart and in good faith. Careful though, the divine sense of humor is a hell of a thing.

Interesting thought experiment. What do you think it'd take to cause me to suffer a true crisis of faith? This may be a rather relevant data point. I'm currently juggling several models that so far feed into each other so far as I can tell. You may be able to cause a rather sever hiccup in my overall system if you name something I've glaringly failed to account for...

You think of women in dehumanizing terms.

I could have worded that one better but I stand by the general point. As a male, if you want to fix your relationship with a woman who has kids, first fix your relationship with her kids. They are her kids no doubt and (if she's not utterly fucked in the head) she values their happiness and safety over all other considerations. Make them happy and safe and you become what amounts to the ideal partner.

At least, that's what her brain will be telling her. Once you've done that she'll allow herself (again, if she's not fucked in the head) to get emotionally intimate with you. Emotional intimacy is the cornerstone of the female sex drive. IF she's not desiring sex it's probably because she doesn't feel like you're being intimate with/emotionally bonding to her.

If a teenage girl is raped by a male relative and becomes pregnant, then how is she not innocent? She must sacrifice herself and her future because life means nothing to you once its actually here. Also, you would benefit from trying to see your mom's perspective here.

Again, the unborn baby is innocent. The relative is not and ought to be persecuted to the full extent of the law (rapists, especially ones of that type, don't last long in the general population of U.S. State prisons if you catch my drift). Further, she need not sacrifice herself or her future. If she truly does not want to raise the kid it can and should be put up for adoption. Plenty of loving families out there who would like to be great parents for it.

Also, my mom's perspective was that even so I was her baby and she thought the doc was incorrect in his dire prognosis and thus decided to carry me to term. She turned out to be 100 percent correct BTW. I would also point out that Ad Hominem attacks weaken your arguments from a philosophical standpoint. They were also rather poorly done rhetorically. You won't be convincing anyone outside your own choir that I'm a sociopathic misogynistic monster with those. Step up your game!

[Minde]

You know what I would really like to see? Rapists get punished. Like castrated punished. If a woman (or child!) gets an abortion, get DNA samples from the baby, match it to the dad, and make sure he never reproduces again. "I'm sorry, you don't want to lose that? You shouldn't have stuck it where it wasn't wanted." "You didn't want to be responsible for the life of someone else? You should have thought about that before you had sex. After all, sex (between heteros...) makes babies."

I bet if we made men more responsible, put the weight of the consequences on them, the need and desire for abortions would plummet. Rape might drop off, too.


Are the reproductive abilities of a self-selecting group of men more important than babies' lives?!

[End]

You know what I would really like to see? Rapists get punished. Like castrated punished. If a woman (or child!) gets an abortion, get DNA samples from the baby, match it to the dad, and make sure he never reproduces again. "I'm sorry, you don't want to lose that? You shouldn't have stuck it where it wasn't wanted." "You didn't want to be responsible for the life of someone else? You should have thought about that before you had sex. After all, sex (between heteros...) makes babies."

I bet if we made men more responsible, put the weight of the consequences on them, the need and desire for abortions would plummet. Rape might drop off, too.


Are the reproductive abilities of a self-selecting group of men more important than babies' lives?!

I'm more of the opinion that the rapist gets one last chance. Repent of thy sin (in the truest sense of the term) and rape no more, or die. Killing the unrepentant sinner (who is only going to continue sinning and won't ever stop) is actually a mercy you're doling out to them. Those that boil in hell for all eternity in oil can at least be glad someone ended them before their sins piled up even more and landed them boiling in the most vile and foul excrement imaginable instead.

This is a critical part of Christianity that most (even many Christians) don't seem to really understand. God is Love. God is Mercy. God is Truth. God is Justice. People tend to forget about that last one even though it's why Christ had to undergo his passion in the first place.

It's a high bar for a given individual to clear as death isn't something you can just undo if you fuck it up (and if you do you're guilty of the sin of murder and must repent of that yourself) but if you gave them a second chance, told them what would definitely happen if they did it again, and they do it again anyway, well, I don't know about you but my trigger finger just got extremely itchy.

Also, the systems that'd be required to make your utopian flight actually viable and enforceable are dystopian. At that point you got the "1984" panopticon of Big Brother with a searchable universal global DNA database to reinforce it to yet another nightmarish level Orwell didn't think of. A fun personal flight of fancy perhaps, but not a world any sane person would want to live in.

Also pro-life is r-selected and peasantish. The proud K-selected blond beasts of prey suffer only the finest spawn to live to maturity.

Quality shitpost, but we both know that's not how it actually works .

[CosmicGenis]

I'm more of the opinion that the rapist gets one last chance. Repent of thy sin (in the truest sense of the term) and rape no more, or die.

The rule of justice is this: there is no law against your first transgression. You're free to break any law you want the first time. Then it is the job of the justice system to ensure you don't get a second time.

[End]

The rule of justice is this: there is no law against your first transgression. You're free to break any law you want the first time. Then it is the job of the justice system to ensure you don't get a second time.

From the perspective of a finite being you are absolutely correct. From the perspective of the infinite you are not.

This is the thing I was getting at when I mentioned that it's not only OK but actually a heartfelt act of mercy to kill the unrepentant sinner. The etymology of Penitentiary/Prison reveals the deeply Christian character of the concept and where I'm coming from on this front.

In your system (please correct me if I'm misinterpreting), you just up and kill the criminal Judge Dredd style. The "guilty" sure as fuck don't get a second chance to commit a crime if they die as a result of the first. If they land/physically end up in an Iso-Cube for life it's a distinction without any real difference I'd say.

The Christian character is revealed in what is ostensibly hoped for in the ideal prison system. The criminal/sinner reforms, repents, and sins no more. No matter how horrific the sin, no matter how joyfully they engaged in that initial transgression, they can still repent and be saved from eternal damnation. God can and will forgive any sin if you truly repent. Many a saint is blatantly guilty of heinous sins. My favorite example is Saint Paul. Paul gleefully killed many a faithful Christain in his heyday. Yet after that experience on the road to Damascus many have argued Christianity never would have gotten off the ground long term without his efforts in the evangelization of the faith he once so ardently and effectively persecuted.

This is the key weakness and my primary objection to pretty much any left-wing ideology/position (Pro-Choice being one of them). They truly don't have a mechanism for forgiveness/repentance. At least, not one that doesn't end in the "assisted" suicide of the guilty and that's more a mechanism of praising the murderer of that individual over their ultimately infinitely inadequate attempts to repent of a "sin" that was no fault of their own.

Don't believe me on this? Look at what mainstream Social Media has to say about Clarence Thomas right now in the left-wing spheres of it. If I put "Ketanji Brown" in the place of "Clarence Thomas" and otherwise quoted their posts word for word I'd be in jail for hate crimes or worse within the hour.

Don't tell me I'm wrong. We all know I'm right about that. Hence why I won't dare do so even in obvious jest.

Basically, the true job of the ideal justice system is to help criminals realize how and why they fucked up and committed the crime and instill in them how they could, would, and will be much happier if they instead followed virtue over vice.

If we adopted your own absolute finite view of justice we'd all be dead. After all, it is not hyperbole to say that most everyone in a modern Western State is in fact guilty of committing 3 felonies a day. All felons must die by your view it seems so it follows that we all must die for BS reasons.

Again, I'm sorry if I'm misinterpreting your views but let's just say you wouldn't be the first to... not think it all the way through as it were.

[xerx]

Quality shitpost, but we both know that's not how it actually works .

It was a quality post, tho.

End, compared to a wanted child, a "rape baby" won't have very much investment from either parent (and likely none from his dad). No amount of Christianity is going to change that.

[adage]

It was a quality post, tho.

End, compared to a wanted child, a "rape baby" won't have very much investment from either parent (and likely none from his dad). No amount of Christianity is going to change that.

Still funny.
I know a women who was born out of a father raping his teen daughter and she was loved by her mother still, more than some wanted child I met.
Some people have an immense capacity to love, others none.
People don't always "want" kids for good reasons.
Life is an odd thing.

[End]

It was a quality post, tho.

End, compared to a wanted child, a "rape baby" won't have very much investment from either parent (and likely none from his dad). No amount of Christianity is going to change that.

You may be right, but I was and still am arguing for the right of that baby to be given the chance to live. I guess this is also rather personal from my end. My LSE mother did something most probably wouldn't have predicted. When told I ought to be aborted for very good and thorough reasons she defied an established authority and told them to fuck off at great potential cost. Because she did something that's so "out of character" I was born. Turns out said authority was completely wrong on all counts.

Instead of being a misshapen retarded mess of cells that could barely function without hospice I was instead a rather intelligent and severely pessimistic yet fully functional asshole. How many more stories like mine would have played out to the betterment of humanity if abortions weren't so ardently pushed upon the pregnant youths of our age? If we just pull a number out of our ass and say 1 percent well, what's one percent of 60+ Million in the United States alone? How many abortions happened in the whole of Europe? I may disdain the "old world" but at least their Abortion Laws made way more sense than the full and essentially unrestricted "right" Roe v. Wade made a reality in the States.

After 12 weeks most of the EU held a rather common sense view my LSI trainer pretty much spelled out for me. In his mind, if it takes you longer than 12 weeks to decide if you want the kid or not you're offensively stupid/evil. You ought to know by then. Late term abortions are utterly and undeniably sacrifices to Moloch in all but name and I'll dare you to tell me I'm mistaken on this one. Look up what that entails and yeah, no amount of anything will convince me that's not a crime against human decency, morality, and sanctity.

Satan loves them of course, but I do hold out hope that most of the people who bother to post on these forums can at least agree that that is not a thing that ought to be celebrated in any way. Let alone actually allowed in any sane and moral society...

[Poptart]

I'm more of the opinion that the rapist gets one last chance. Repent of thy sin (in the truest sense of the term) and rape no more, or die. Killing the unrepentant sinner (who is only going to continue sinning and won't ever stop) is actually a mercy you're doling out to them. Those that boil in hell for all eternity in oil can at least be glad someone ended them before their sins piled up even more and landed them boiling in the most vile and foul excrement imaginable instead.

If men get a free rape pass, then let’s give women the right to one abortion each*. Fair compromise.

*contingent upon repentance (for rape or abortion)

[xerx]

Republican activists and legislators want to pre-empt abortion-seekers from getting it out-of-state:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...n-state-lines/

[xerx]

Also, the systems that'd be required to make your utopian flight actually viable and enforceable are dystopian. At that point you got the "1984" panopticon of Big Brother with a searchable universal global DNA database to reinforce it to yet another nightmarish level Orwell didn't think of. A fun personal flight of fancy perhaps, but not a world any sane person would want to live in.

And what about the dystopianism inherent to taking away people's bodily autonomy? End, how do you feel about mask & vaccine mandates?

[Poptart]

Pregnant 10-year-old girl can’t get an abortion in her home state of Ohio-
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/...csp=apple-news

As if she isn’t traumatized enough, let’s force her through pregnancy, childbirth, and giving her baby away, too. She can keep going to school—I’m sure her classmates will understand. If not, she can always stay at home. Hopefully she has a parent or someone to watch her, since it’s probably not safe to leave a pregnant 10-year-old girl by herself every day.

[chriscorey]

Pregnant 10-year-old girl can’t get an abortion in her home state of Ohio-
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/...csp=apple-news

As if she isn’t traumatized enough, let’s force her through pregnancy, childbirth, and giving her baby away, too. She can keep going to school—I’m sure her classmates will understand. If not, she can always stay at home. Hopefully she has a parent or someone to watch her, since it’s probably not safe to leave a pregnant 10-year-old girl by herself every day.

It could kill her to give birth to that baby. There should be emergency surgery laws in place. Fucked up system...

[Poptart]

Btw @End, I’m not sure that killing a sinner is all that merciful because a sinner’s fate is essentially sealed once he dies. What about us slow learners who might need to make the same mistake more than once before we understand the true nature of our sin?

[End]

If men get a free rape pass, then let’s give women the right to one abortion each*. Fair compromise.

*contingent upon repentance (for rape or abortion)

Obvious counter you saw coming from a mile away: The rapist hasn't actually killed anyone (hopefully).

The woman who gets an abortion has. Well, to be more precise the person who performed the abortion has but she let them do it so she's complicit in that particular sin. She could have stopped them, and she didn't. The prayer of penance is quite clear on this one. "In what I have done, and what I have failed to do" is in there for good reason.

God will forgive even murderers however if they truly repent. Again, this is a key aspect of Christianity that the left critically lacks. There is no true concept of "redemption" or "forgiveness" in their ideology.

You'd think that'd be a major red flag for anyone with a modicum of sense and self-awareness but apparently not...

Republican activists and legislators want to pre-empt abortion-seekers from getting it out-of-state:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...n-state-lines/

I'm going to take my own side to task on this one. Yeah, that was going to be the obvious outcome of this decision and while we may not like it it's not our place to stop it by force. Instead, there should be a pro-life family planning center at the border doing all it can to convince the likely abortion seeking woman to reconsider.

Brute force ups the tensions at a time where they need to be reduced. Sadly (or thankfully depending on the context and which side you're on), sin makes you stupid and boy oh boy are we currently being ruled over by the most unrepentant sinners since the moments right before God said "fuck it" and hit the flood button.

He promised to never again flood the world. There are, however, more ways than one to do the same thing without the previous method. I'd ask most residents living in "blue" cities how to grow crops or even possibly construct a workable garden. Here in red "rural" or hell even "suburb" town that's easy to answer. In a place like New York or LA I'd honestly be surprised if they even thought to remove the plastic container from around the tomato plant before putting it into the ground. If they even thought to rent a roto-tiller and tilled it before digging in and transplanting it I'd actually start to get a little worried about how my side might lose somehow.

Thankfully for me, they tended to put a mere 2 inches of dirt over a bed of cardboard and not even bother with taking the plastic pot off. There's good reason I'm rather certain I'm on the winning side of Civil War 2 Electric Boogaloo.

And what about the dystopianism inherent to taking away people's bodily autonomy? End, how do you feel about mask & vaccine mandates?

Another obvious counter: What about the baby's body eh? You may not hold as I do that a mere "clump of cells" is a human but it is undeniable that it can and will become one if left alone to gestate within the womb and be born. Are Third Trimester abortions (where they basically suck the almost fully viable baby's brain out through a straw, systematically break the poor dead thing apart, and extract it piecemeal through the vagina) not infanticide in all but semantics? The fertilized embryo is a human in any logical sense of the term I'd care to argue for. That is all that matters from a moral standpoint in my eyes.

I'm also against mask and vaccine mandates because the former only really make a difference if we're talking N-95 masks being worn properly by the vast majority of the population (and I can argue how that "cure" is far worse than the disease it may well prevent). The truly destitute and poor couldn't hope to afford them if society got serious about that nor could the society hope to provide them unless we're talking what amounts to a theocracy everyone actually believed in root and branch that wasn't somehow corrupted by fallen human nature. As human nature is fallen, well, yeah. Won't work.

Neither will Vaccine mandates. This one however is actually hilariously easy to debunk on pure Darwinian grounds. If the vaccines are good and effective with zero negative side effects than this amounts to a major selection event. Those who get the vaccine will live long and prosper, have many children, and become the true ancestors of the next generation. Those who fail to do so will (or if they don't their offspring will) die of COVID-X and thus fail to reproduce.

I'm currently betting on a repeat of the British "Peppered Moth" event during the industrial revolution. Here's a brief summary:

Many a tree in Great Britain had white bark "peppered" with black dots. The average "peppered moth" was likewise. Mostly white with a bit of peppering. There was the literal "black sheep" of the species however. They were all black and thus stood out like a sore thumb against the otherwise mostly white bark. Life was good for the "normal" peppered moths (especially since the trait that made them "all black" was recessive).

Then the industrial revolution hits and the smokestacks start pumping out offensive levels of soot turning all those trees fully black due to pollution. Well, who is laughing now? The "black" peppered moths that's who. This did eventually get reversed and the previous order was restored once the soot stopped being such a big problem but, well, this example is why I argue against any and all forms of "eugenics" as I'd define it.

The "vaccine" is the smokestacks. Those of us who didn't get them are the all-black peppered moths. Time will tell (I am confident) that I am right about this. Don't fret however. For the "doctor" who robbed you of your fertility will answer for their crimes against humanity once the likes of me achieve our fated victory .

[FreelancePoliceman]

@End would you say that infanticide is wrong for any other reason than that God forbade it?

[xerx]

Another obvious counter: What about the baby's body eh? You may not hold as I do that a mere "clump of cells" is a human but it is undeniable that it can and will become one if left alone to gestate within the womb and be born. Are Third Trimester abortions (where they basically suck the almost fully viable baby's brain out through a straw, systematically break the poor dead thing apart, and extract it piecemeal through the vagina) not infanticide in all but semantics? The fertilized embryo is a human in any logical sense of the term I'd care to argue for. That is all that matters from a moral standpoint in my eyes.

I'm also against mask and vaccine mandates because the former only really make a difference if we're talking N-95 masks being worn properly by the vast majority of the population (and I can argue how that "cure" is far worse than the disease it may well prevent). The truly destitute and poor couldn't hope to afford them if society got serious about that nor could the society hope to provide them unless we're talking what amounts to a theocracy everyone actually believed in root and branch that wasn't somehow corrupted by fallen human nature. As human nature is fallen, well, yeah. Won't work.

Pregnant women can die thanks to not having taken the vaccine, killing their fetus along with them, their fetus not having had any say so in the matter. Would you support vaccine mandates in that case, seeing as how the fetus deserves a chance to live, irrespective of the mother's bodily autonomy?

[End]

@End would you say that infanticide is wrong for any other reason than that God forbade it?

Yes! In case it wasn't obvious my position is that you literally cannot be more "innocent" than the freshly conceived/unborn. If you'd kill a truly innocent person merely because they may potentially inconvenience you somehow you're damn right I got a major issue here. If you'd argue that's a "moral" choice to be celebrated somehow (i.e. you'd truly celebrate a woman getting an abortion after having 100 percent consensual sex with her boyfriend) than you're among the truly lost full on Moloch worshiping Death Cultists.

I may value freedom almost obsessively (as most Gamma's/Americans do), but unlike libertines and rather insane ancaps (I'm a sane one of those BTW), the question is not freedom to do whatever I feel like doing. Rather, it is being free to do what is objectively and eternally good. The ultimate freedom is the freedom to actually be a saint.

Pregnant women can die thanks to not having taken the vaccine, killing their fetus along with them, their fetus not having had any say so in the matter. Would you support vaccine mandates in that case, seeing as how the fetus deserves a chance to live, irrespective of the mother's bodily autonomy?

Oh man you really aren't paying attention to the data the PTB are absolutely desperately hoping you fail to pay attention to. See, they've learned that "cover ups" are counter-productive in the age of the internet. It's why they let the meetings and speeches at the WEF hit youtube. Go watch a few of them. Claus Schwab is literally a fist shaking Bond Villian that in a sane and functional world would be targeted for assassination. Said assassin would likely be an American BTW. Such is our actually existent national character.

This is why they pulled out all the stops in murdering the pulps, westerns, and superhero comics. They succeeded, but at the cost they only are now beginning to realize. Pressure makes a diamond folks...

Or, to spell it out for you, the Vax is a sterilization agent (especially among women). It's a great tragedy that I learned about how right I was about things like attachment so late in this probably final iteration of the "great game" as it were.

Everyone(the Japanese most especially) knows what a true American looks like. Even when (or one could argue especially when) they're taking the piss out of us you simply cannot fail to see the affection there. Makes sense in the sense of a gamma relating to a beta. The "samurai" is an LSI/SLE while the "Cowboy" is a "LIE/ILI"

Kindred/beneficent relations seem to be the common theme in regards to us and them. Hell, in film you see how those genres literally fed off each other. Samurai films copied westerns and westerns copied samurai films. I need a bit more sleep to fully articulate this in more objective terms.

For now sleep on this chain of reasoning...

[FreelancePoliceman]

Yes! In case it wasn't obvious my position is that you literally cannot be more "innocent" than the freshly conceived/unborn. If you'd kill a truly innocent person merely because they may potentially inconvenience you somehow you're damn right I got a major issue here. If you'd argue that's a "moral" choice to be celebrated somehow (i.e. you'd truly celebrate a woman getting an abortion after having 100 percent consensual sex with her boyfriend) than you're among the truly lost full on Moloch worshiping Death Cultists.

I may value freedom almost obsessively (as most Gamma's/Americans do), but unlike libertines and rather insane ancaps (I'm a sane one of those BTW), the question is not freedom to do whatever I feel like doing. Rather, it is being free to do what is objectively and eternally good. The ultimate freedom is the freedom to actually be a saint.

So what I'm asking is, without a god, what the problem with murder in general is. When you kill an adult that obviously has political consequences. You have to worry about their friends and family taking vengeance, you've weakened your community and sown distrust; you have these sorts of problems to deal with, and maybe or maybe not you'll be able to do it. But with an infant, no one besides the parents is tied to them; no one else is going to personally care about the infant or come to avenge it. So if a couple decide to kill their child, who's too young to have developed social/political ties -- who's to tell them they're wrong?

[xerx]

Oh man you really aren't paying attention to the data the PTB are absolutely desperately hoping you fail to pay attention to. See, they've learned that "cover ups" are counter-productive in the age of the internet. It's why they let the meetings and speeches at the WEF hit youtube. Go watch a few of them. Claus Schwab is literally a fist shaking Bond Villian that in a sane and functional world would be targeted for assassination. Said assassin would likely be an American BTW. Such is our actually existent national character.

This is why they pulled out all the stops in murdering the pulps, westerns, and superhero comics. They succeeded, but at the cost they only are now beginning to realize. Pressure makes a diamond folks...

Or, to spell it out for you, the Vax is a sterilization agent (especially among women). It's a great tragedy that I learned about how right I was about things like attachment so late in this probably final iteration of the "great game" as it were.

Everyone(the Japanese most especially) knows what a true American looks like. Even when (or one could argue especially when) they're taking the piss out of us you simply cannot fail to see the affection there. Makes sense in the sense of a gamma relating to a beta. The "samurai" is an LSI/SLE while the "Cowboy" is a "LIE/ILI"

Kindred/beneficent relations seem to be the common theme in regards to us and them. Hell, in film you see how those genres literally fed off each other. Samurai films copied westerns and westerns copied samurai films. I need a bit more sleep to fully articulate this in more objective terms.

For now sleep on this chain of reasoning...

Why would the WEF want to sterilize women?

[Poptart]

Obvious counter you saw coming from a mile away: The rapist hasn't actually killed anyone (hopefully).

The woman who gets an abortion has. Well, to be more precise the person who performed the abortion has but she let them do it so she's complicit in that particular sin. She could have stopped them, and she didn't. The prayer of penance is quite clear on this one. "In what I have done, and what I have failed to do" is in there for good reason.

God will forgive even murderers however if they truly repent. Again, this is a key aspect of Christianity that the left critically lacks. There is no true concept of "redemption" or "forgiveness" in their ideology.

You'd think that'd be a major red flag for anyone with a modicum of sense and self-awareness but apparently not...

Homicide is the leading cause of death for pregnant women.

Yes, I did see it coming, I just disagree with your belief that abortion is equivalent to murder.

[End]

So what I'm asking is, without a god, what the problem with murder in general is. When you kill an adult that obviously has political consequences. You have to worry about their friends and family taking vengeance, you've weakened your community and sown distrust; you have these sorts of problems to deal with, and maybe or maybe not you'll be able to do it. But with an infant, no one besides the parents is tied to them; no one else is going to personally care about the infant or come to avenge it. So if a couple decide to kill their child, who's too young to have developed social/political ties -- who's to tell them they're wrong?

I didn't take you for a nihilist Freelance. For that's the kind of response I'd expect out of one. The given couple might think nothing of it, but you can bet your ass if I saw them do that even as an absolute foreigner/alient outsider with no context whatsoever. I'd (and you'd hopefully as well if you're being honest with yourself) wretch on the Collective Unconscious level.

It's just... wrong damnit! Like selling your own children into slavery or sacrificing them to some so-called deity for another pull in a gatcha game as it were (channeling maximum nihilist energy here on my part).

I mean fuck. This kind of shit is exactly why the "Cosmic Horror" genre got off the ground.

Why would the WEF want to sterilize women?

This is why the atheists and secular minded people simply can't compute what's going on in the world today. They real question you ought to be asking is why Demons would want to sterilize women. Rephrased in that context, the answer becomes "why wouldn't they?"

You may not believe in the Devil, but the Devil sure as shit believes in you...

Homicide is the leading cause of death for pregnant women.

Yes, I did see it coming, I just disagree with your belief that abortion is equivalent to murder.

There are graphic and accurate film depictions of how "third-trimester" abortions work. Tell me that's not murder.

Try to formulate a truly coherent argument as to how second-trimester abortions aren't distinctions without differences.

Maybe you could make an effective argument in the first-trimester where at the very beginning it really does look like a mere "clump of cells" as many have argued.

The problem then becomes the exact moment you'd say the "mere clump of cells" becomes a true and viable "human".

I handily avoid this problem by asserting the embryo is a viable human the instant it is fertilized. Trust me I've got a metric fuckton of "intermediate states" I can imagine and they're all BS in the ultimate and final analysis.

This is likely the result of a tension between and The applied vs. the theoretical (and likely why Alphas as a whole will eternally war against Gammas).

For me, it comes down to yet another distinction without an observable and objective difference. results mattering over theoreticals.

Fuck the latter. What matters is the former. Results in objective reality over all else. and considerations can collectively get fucked.

[Poptart]

There are graphic and accurate film depictions of how "third-trimester" abortions work. Tell me that's not murder.

Try to formulate a truly coherent argument as to how second-trimester abortions aren't distinctions without differences.

Maybe you could make an effective argument in the first-trimester where at the very beginning it really does look like a mere "clump of cells" as many have argued.

The problem then becomes the exact moment you'd say the "mere clump of cells" becomes a true and viable "human".

I handily avoid this problem by asserting the embryo is a viable human the instant it is fertilized. Trust me I've got a metric fuckton of "intermediate states" I can imagine and they're all BS in the ultimate and final analysis.

This is likely the result of a tension between and The applied vs. the theoretical (and likely why Alphas as a whole will eternally war against Gammas).

For me, it comes down to yet another distinction without an observable and objective difference. results mattering over theoreticals.

Fuck the latter. What matters is the former. Results in objective reality over all else. and considerations can collectively get fucked.

Hey, we might’ve stumbled upon some common ground here. If a pregnant woman asked her doctor for a third trimester abortion for no reason other than she just changed her mind, I wouldn’t be okay with it. In fact, I would be horrified. I’ve seen pictures and videos depicting late term abortion, and it’s deeply upsetting.

[xerx]

This is why the atheists and secular minded people simply can't compute what's going on in the world today. They real question you ought to be asking is why Demons would want to sterilize women. Rephrased in that context, the answer becomes "why wouldn't they?"

You may not believe in the Devil, but the Devil sure as shit believes in you...

But why would demons / Satan want to specifically sterilize women? Why is sterilization the only form of evil (as opposed to, say, having babies that are born with opioid addiction)?