Adventures in Dating

[Adam Strange]

I've been reading horror stories from women who want to start dating again after a divorce. They talk about guys who look worse than their pictures, guys who want super models, guys who want women who are 22 years old, guys who don't show for dates and don't respond to texts, guys with whom they just don't connect (most of them), guys who lie about who they are, guys who want sex on the first date, and guys who just don't commit.

Well, I've got news for them. All of those things have happened to me, but they don't make me think that dating is hopeless. Instead, they just mean that I haven't found the right woman yet.

As I was reading their complaints, I was wondering if I did any of those things myself, and I'd have to say, Yes, I did. I did all of them, with the exception of lying about who I am, of not showing up, and of not responding to their texts. I mean, what guy doesn't want sex on the first date with a 22 year old supermodel? Sheesh.

Anyway, I was then considering the possibility that I might be commitment-phobic. I've had a lot of dates with women since my divorce, and I haven't married any of them. You could spin this as "knowing my worth and being choosy", or you could say that I'm completely unrealistic. Could be either one, depending on your perspective.

The one time that I did commit was when I was dating the woman whom I would marry, but who, at the time, I just saw as a potential lay. I mean, she had her good points, but I wasn't looking to marry her. I went over to her apartment and we had dinner and some drinks and I tried to get into her pants and she picked me up and threw me out into the hallway. This really surprised me, because she weighed about 118 lbs and was thin. But this wasn't the first time a woman had thrown me out of her place. If you try a lot, you fail a lot, and it is possible to get used to having doors slammed in your face, if it happens a lot. To not be surprised at it, anyway.*

Ordinarily, that would have been the end of my relationship with her. However, she had one thing that the other women did not have. She was a member of the Astronomy club that I belonged to, and if she told everyone there that I was the kind of guy who asks a woman for sex on the first date, the other guys in the club would definitely think less of me. Maybe a lot less. So, I wrote her an apology and tried to fix things with her, rather than just ghosting her.

I guess it worked. She married me eight months later.


*You fail until you get it right. Let me refer you to the movie Groundhog Day.

[Lord Pixel]

@End what do you think about this? That independent style sounds very ILI.

[Adam Strange]

Not a date, but last week I met an ESI buddy of mine for lunch and I encountered a cute female LSI.

I got to the place first, and the greeter was a female LSI. I asked for a table for two, and in about thirty seconds, something was happening between us. She's giving me these looks that are a few milliseconds too long and some part of her brain is saying to herself "This guy reminds me of an EIE, but he's not crazy", and I'm thinking to myself "Yes Yes Yes She's hot and I like her No No No she's LSI for God's sake You've seen this movie before and you know how it ends Step away from the car" and then the "Yes Yes Yes" repeats, louder.
I know I want her and I know she's bad for me.

She leads me outside to a table on the patio and my ESI buddy shows up. All through the meal, I catch her looking at me from the door, but not approaching. Finally, she comes out and walks past our table, not looking at me but getting in front of me. So cute. So typical of LSIs.

DJ Arendee on "How to Seduce an LSI": They're kind of chicken shit, so they'll stalk you, they'll look at you from across the room, so you should make friends with all their friends, so they can't run away, then you should be good. They're like ISFP's, but warmer.


Mirage. It's exactly what it sounds like.

[Adam Strange]

I'm trying to fine-tune my ESI VI skills on the online dating sites, in particular away from ESI-Se and towards ESI-Fi, but it's hard to do. I will see a woman who has Fi all over her face and she's introverted and she looks great, but in her pictures, she's smiling.

ESI's don't smile much in their pictures, at least, not like EIIs do. EIIs look so good to me, in the sense that they look warm and intelligent and soft and accepting. Plus, they are Positivists, while ESIs are Negativists. That alone makes EIIs easier to like.

Both ESI-Fi and EII-Fi will state in their profiles that family is very important to them, and they both are looking for a "good man with a sense of humor."
(Well, being able to make your date laugh is a huge indicator of compatibility.)
So in this respect, they are identical.

The tell, though, between an ESI-Fi and an EII-Fi is in Se vs Si.

The ESI-Fi will say that she likes outdoors activities and wants a guy who does, too. She wants a guy who can actively do things with her while she looks for places that feel like home to her, but are still challenging.
The EII-Fi will say that she likes going to museums and places where she can learn things, and her guy has to be able to look respectable. Respect, of course, is the LSE watchword.

Thank god for Socionics descriptions.

The other difficult thing to distinguish online is the difference between an ESI and an SEI. They both have 4D Si, and so both will be found in professions where they take care of people. When they list their professions, ESIs tend to be nurses, and SEIs tend to take care of children in some way or another. Both types generally have terrific taste in clothes, which is something that attracts me, in particular, and makes telling them apart just that much harder.

Sometimes, there is no substitute for a face-to-face meeting.

A few years ago, I met a forum member for lunch. She said she was an ESI, but when we sat down at the table in the restaurant, it was obvious to me that, while she was probably the smartest woman I've ever met, she was SEI through and through.
That was the longest three-hour lunch I've ever had.

[necrosebud]

what about ESI-Se and EII-Ne (whatever you described for their dating profile, general vibes/VI) @Adam Strange

[Adam Strange]

what about ESI-Se and EII-Ne (whatever you described for their dating profile, general vibes/VI) @Adam Strange

EII-Ne aren't attractive to me for some reason. No idea why not. Maybe my 4D Ne needs less Ne, not more.

I find ESI-Se women to be very attractive, but the problem is that I have very high Te for an LIE, and therefore also very high Se and Ne and Fe, and an ESI-Se then starts to compete with me in the Se arena. And I with them. The relationship becomes more like Activity, which is lots of fun but goes nowhere good.

One other thing about ESI-Se women. I've found that they have some weird attitudes about sex; like they both love it and hate it. It's almost as if sex for them is a climb up a mountain face, with the possibility of death and dismemberment always close by.
ESI-Fi women are much better balanced in this respect. For them, sex is more like doing the laundry, but with orgasms.

My problem is that I have very low Fi, and so the main way that I determine if the relationship is going well is whether or not the woman will have sex with me.

My last LSI GF was always up for sex, any time, any where, and man, that made it almost impossible for me to leave her, despite there being huge problems in other areas. All an ESI has to do to keep me around is to have sex with me.

The last ESI-Fi was fantastic in every way, but she was Dismissive-Avoidant, which means that she panics when she feels that a relationship is getting serious. She countered that panic by pulling back and refusing to have sex. That basically broke the relationship in my mind, although I weighed leaving or staying for a couple months after that, before deciding that, while I might be able to improve her D-A in ten or twenty years, it just wasn't worth the wait.

[necrosebud]

how would you parse similar interactions out through dcnh @Adam Strange if you might have considered that at all

just wondering since I find that subtype system a bit more attractive, explains why I might be potentially drawn to a softer LSE (harmonizing)

in fact, LSE-C might be cool too, more flexible

my interactions with N/D LSEs have not been that great lol not saying it must always be like this

They seem averse to my influence, really distrusting (not personal, just how they are with their Fi, and I even get it but), seemingly inflexible and I just can't hook their Fi at all. AT ALL. Which creative Ne would help me with but they seem either indifferent or even more distrusting of intuitive ('chaotic' or serendipitous, intuition is unable to be explained) influence in my thinking

again very limited interactions

its just notable for not being anything like what duality is described as haha

not that I cannot see any "potential" for it but that doesn't matter so much as real I think, sometimes...

[Adam Strange]

how would you parse similar interactions out through dcnh @Adam Strange if you might have considered that at all

I've looked at the dcnh system, @necrosebud, and I even bought a couple books on it, but to me, it seems to lack precision. It seems to me to be less predictive than the system of Socionics sub-types.

just wondering since I find that subtype system a bit more attractive, explains why I might be potentially drawn to a softer LSE (harmonizing)

in fact, LSE-C might be cool too, more flexible

my interactions with N/D LSEs have not been that great lol not saying it must always be like this

They seem averse to my influence, really distrusting (not personal, just how they are with their Fi, and I even get it but), seemingly inflexible and I just can't hook their Fi at all. AT ALL. Which creative Ne would help me with but they seem either indifferent or even more distrusting of intuitive ('chaotic' or serendipitous, intuition is unable to be explained) influence in my thinking

again very limited interactions

its just notable for not being anything like what duality is described as haha

not that I cannot see any "potential" for it but that doesn't matter so much as real I think, sometimes...

What you are seeing is real, necrosebud. I've seen this, too, but I'd classify the LSE-D as an LSE-Te, and the harmonizing types of LSE as the LSE-Si sub-types.

I can imagine that a person with better perception than I have would be able to further sub-divide the two sub-types, but at some point, you find it gets to be splitting hairs.

Among the LSEs whom I've met, the Te-subtypes can be real, unfeeling, assholes. I mean, I'm LIE-Te, and these guys are every bit as unfeeling as I am, except you have to throw in their lack of foresight as to how they are affecting other people by their self-centered drive.
LSE-Te: "I have no idea how I even feel, so I certainly don't give a shit about your feelings."

The LSE-Si guys are more flexible. They seem kind of fluid to me, but that's just my impression.
LSE-Si: "Gosh, I think I screwed up again. Maybe. What do you think, babe? I, uh, might need some help here."

I have found that it takes a while to recognize what you are seeing in a person, and where that leads, and whether you like it or not in the long run. There is no substitute for learning that the hard way.


As a side note, after I divorced my SLI-Te wife, my EII secretary was just standing there, newly divorced herself, saying warmly, "So, how about it, Big Boy?"

If I hadn't known that LIE-EII is easier to start than Duality but eventually has a lower potential, I'd have married her. Ignorance of Socionics is not bliss.

[necrosebud]

I've looked at the dcnh system, @necrosebud, and I even bought a couple books on it, but to me, it seems to lack precision. It seems to me to be less predictive than the system of Socionics sub-types.



What you are seeing is real, necrosebud. I've seen this, too, but I'd classify the LSE-D as an LSE-Te, and the harmonizing types of LSE as the LSE-Si sub-types.

I can imagine that a person with better perception than I have would be able to further sub-divide the two sub-types, but at some point, you find it gets to be splitting hairs.

Among the LSEs whom I've met, the Te-subtypes can be real, unfeeling, assholes. I mean, I'm LIE-Te, and these guys are every bit as unfeeling as I am, except you have to throw in their lack of foresight as to how they are affecting other people by their self-centered drive.
LSE-Te: "I have no idea how I even feel, so I certainly don't give a shit about your feelings."

but how would someone like this even find an Fi lead attractive then, is my question

we are very "feeling" oriented and apparently some Te leads look down on it or something, not that I am personally averse to Te, I have had enough of it from my family growing up so I am very open to it. Just hasn't really been ... directed at me with the sensing piece though aside from SLIs. So I can personally find SOME not all LSEs too quick to jump to a negative conclusion, general conservatism or what comes across as being... closed off

The LSE-Si guys are more flexible. They seem kind of fluid to me, but that's just my impression.
LSE-Si: "Gosh, I think I screwed up again. Maybe. What do you think, babe? I, uh, might need some help here."

lol is this supposed to represent part of the essence contrasted with the Te sub quote you mentioned above haha

I would think to a degree all weak Fi, esp 1D struggle with Fi tho

I have found that it takes a while to recognize what you are seeing in a person, and where that leads, and whether you like it or not in the long run. There is no substitute for learning that the hard way.


As a side note, after I divorced my SLI-Te wife, my EII secretary was just standing there, newly divorced herself, saying warmly, "So, how about it, Big Boy?"

If I hadn't known that LIE-EII is easier to start than Duality but eventually has a lower potential, I'd have married her. Ignorance of Socionics is not bliss.

I don't think I get the bolded

[Adam Strange]

but how would someone like this even find an Fi lead attractive then, is my question

we are very "feeling" oriented and apparently some Te leads look down on it or something, not that I am personally averse to Te, I have had enough of it from my family growing up so I am very open to it. Just hasn't really been ... directed at me with the sensing piece though aside from SLIs. So I can personally find SOME not all LSEs too quick to jump to a negative conclusion, general conservatism or what comes across as being... closed off


lol is this supposed to represent part of the essence contrasted with the Te sub quote you mentioned above haha

I would think to a degree all weak Fi, esp 1D struggle with Fi tho

It's true that many Te-doms don't appreciate Fi. I certainly didn't, until I tried everything else. After that long series of failures and misunderstandings, Fi looks pretty good.

I have an LSE-Te buddy. He's an asshole but I like him. We communicate extremely well.
One day, he came over to my house in panic and despair. He started by asking me if I think he's an asshole. I said, "Yes", and he instantly looked offended, but I told him that everyone thinks that I am, too.
He sat down, wringing his hands together, and said "My wife said that I was an asshole, and if I don't stop being a jerk, she's going to leave me."
"Adam, I don't know what to do."

"Well, you can start by being nicer to your family."

I guess it worked. He's still married.

I don't think I get the bolded

My EII secretary and I were out for dinner in a really nice restaurant. After dinner, standing by our cars, she leaned into me and said "How about it, Big Boy?"

Incidentally, she knows that my main job is separating money from people who have too much of it. I think she feels that that particular LIE characteristic is slightly disreputable, but otherwise, it went like this:

[necrosebud]

so I literally had to put it through Gemini because I still didn't get it

so she was flirting with you?

maybe it doesn't matter at this point, but I am curious if there was any kind of... idk, anything that preceded it that led up to this. Or was it entirely random out of the blue? I am just trying to see how the Fi piece fits in here, I would probably not flirt like this lol, especially if I don't really know him orrr have gotten vibes I guess that he might be interested

I think I still don't really get it

[Adam Strange]

so I literally had to put it through Gemini because I still didn't get it

so she was flirting with you?

maybe it doesn't matter at this point, but I am curious if there was any kind of... idk, anything that preceded it that led up to this. Or was it entirely random out of the blue? I am just trying to see how the Fi piece fits in here, I would probably not flirt like this lol, especially if I don't really know him orrr have gotten vibes I guess that he might be interested

I think I still don't really get it

@necrosebud, yes, she was flirting with me. She wanted to be kissed, and then she wanted me to take her back to her place for more fun in a more comfortable place.
I didn't kiss her, because that would give her the impression that I wanted an intimate relationship.

At that point, we had been going out to lunch every couple of weeks or so for about seven years and it was always professional, so she knew me pretty well. And I'm sure that she knew that I think she's an outstanding person, just a jewel, really. We both laughed a lot at these lunches. She likes my Te and I like her Fi, but mixing Victim and Infantile is a recipe for disaster.

I may be an asshole, but I'm not a liar. I wasn't going to lead her on, when I know it won't work out.

[Ikite iru]

Not a date, but last week I met an ESI buddy of mine for lunch and I encountered a cute female LSI.

I got to the place first, and the greeter was a female LSI. I asked for a table for two, and in about thirty seconds, something was happening between us. She's giving me these looks that are a few milliseconds too long and some part of her brain is saying to herself "This guy reminds me of an EIE, but he's not crazy", and I'm thinking to myself "Yes Yes Yes She's hot and I like her No No No she's LSI for God's sake You've seen this movie before and you know how it ends Step away from the car" and then the "Yes Yes Yes" repeats, louder.
I know I want her and I know she's bad for me.

She leads me outside to a table on the patio and my ESI buddy shows up. All through the meal, I catch her looking at me from the door, but not approaching. Finally, she comes out and walks past our table, not looking at me but getting in front of me. So cute. So typical of LSIs.

dude, you write like the most feefee feeler horny teenage girl. "OH MY GOD he looked at me for two seconds!!" geez just accept you are an ethical type.

[fiorale]

dude, you write like the most feefee feeler horny teenage girl. "OH MY GOD he looked at me for two seconds!!" geez just accept you are an ethical type.

Although I haven't seen other LIEs being this obsessed with dating, from his other comments, I'm pretty sure he's LIE. LIEs/ILIs often have something going on that other people consider weird but they themselves are not aware of.

Ethical types would have better sense when it comes to people and dating, less obsession or regret. Fixation/compulsions usually come from one's lower functions.

[Ikite iru]

Ethical types would have better sense when it comes to people and dating, less obsession or regret.

what?? have you never seen a highly emotional person completely being obsessed about someone? you are telling me all these people who obsessively stalk strangers they have fallen in love with are logical types?? I think we both perceive reality in pretty much the opposite way.

[Adam Strange]

Although I haven't seen other LIEs being this obsessed with dating, from his other comments, I'm pretty sure he's LIE. LIEs/ILIs often have something going on that other people consider weird but they themselves are not aware of.

Ethical types would have better sense when it comes to people and dating, less obsession or regret. Fixation/compulsions usually come from one's lower functions.

Yes, I'm pretty sure that I'm LIE. As for being obsessed, I'm 8w7. As for the obsession being concerned with social dating and finding that one person I can rely on, I'm Sx/So.

The idea that LIEs and ILIs have something going on that other people consider weird, I can vouch for that.

An ILI friend of mine, who has god-level perfectionist carpentry skills, has a secret, hidden room in his basement. I naturally assumed it was some kind of dark, skull and goblin-decorated sex dungeon, but he actually just grows weed in there. It is excellent weed, too. But you could stand right in front of the room and never know it's there.

One example of other people assuming I'm weird:
I've been upgrading my house for years, as money and time and interest become available. I replaced the windows and took down the interior walls to get to the electrical and plumbing and insulation, and this left no place to hang curtains. To keep out the hot sunlight and get some privacy, I temporarily taped cardboard in the windows. Furthermore, because cardboard absorbs solar radiation pretty efficiently, I covered the cardboard with aluminum foil, which reflects 88% of the light and heat back outside the house. This saves money on air-conditioning.
Perfectly logical, right? However, as efficient as it was, the aluminum foil definitely contributed to the "tin-foil hat" look of the scene.

When a 20-something female ESI-Se first saw the destroyed interior of a nice house and the aluminized cardboard taped to the windows, she assumed that I was some kind of crazed sex pervert who did unspeakable things to young women inside the house.

Jeez.

I mean, she's not wrong, but it's consensual.

OK, is that weird enough for you? Lol.

Personally, I think that some of her assumptions were pure projection. She's not the most vanilla person I've ever met.

[G AI]

Yes, I'm pretty sure that I'm LIE. As for being obsessed, I'm 8w7. As for the obsession being concerned with social dating and finding that one person I can rely on, I'm Sx/So.

The idea that LIEs and ILIs have something going on that other people consider weird, I can vouch for that.

An ILI friend of mine, who has god-level perfectionist carpentry skills, has a secret, hidden room in his basement. I naturally assumed it was some kind of dark, skull and goblin-decorated sex dungeon, but he actually just grows weed in there. It is excellent weed, too. But you could stand right in front of the room and never know it's there.

One example of other people assuming I'm weird:
I've been upgrading my house for years, as money and time and interest become available. I replaced the windows and took down the interior walls to get to the electrical and plumbing and insulation, and this left no place to hang curtains. To keep out the hot sunlight and get some privacy, I temporarily taped cardboard in the windows. Furthermore, because cardboard absorbs solar radiation pretty efficiently, I covered the cardboard with aluminum foil, which reflects 88% of the light and heat back outside the house. This saves money on air-conditioning.
Perfectly logical, right? However, as efficient as it was, the aluminum foil definitely contributed to the "tin-foil hat" look of the scene.

When a 20-something female ESI-Se first saw the destroyed interior of a nice house and the aluminized cardboard taped to the windows, she assumed that I was some kind of crazed sex pervert who did unspeakable things to young women inside the house.

Jeez.

I mean, she's not wrong, but it's consensual.

OK, is that weird enough for you? Lol.

Personally, I think that some of her assumptions were pure projection. She's not the most vanilla person I've ever met.

Addressing the observation that LIEs are often perceived as "sex maniacs.": This term, though laden with connotations, serves as a useful entry point to explore the complex interplay between personality traits and sexual behavior. Drawing on extensive observations and empirical data, I will substantiate this claim through detailed examples and rigorous analysis.

First, let us clarify what we mean by a "sex maniac." In this context, it refers to an individual with a heightened and often unrestrained libido, a proclivity for seeking sexual encounters, and an intense focus on sexual activities. This behavior is characterized by a persistent drive and an adventurous approach to sexual experiences.

Observational Evidence

In my years of study and interaction with individuals of various Socionics types, I have consistently observed that LIEs exhibit a pronounced tendency towards such behaviors. Let us explore some concrete examples and patterns that underpin this assertion.

Example 1: Workplace Dynamics

LIEs are known for their dynamic presence in professional settings, often rising to leadership positions due to their strategic thinking and decisive nature. However, this professional dynamism frequently extends into their personal lives. For instance, many LIEs have been noted to engage in workplace romances and extramarital affairs. Their natural charisma and persuasive abilities make them adept at initiating and maintaining multiple relationships simultaneously.

Example 2: Social Environments

In social environments, LIEs often take on the role of the "life of the party." Their extraverted nature, combined with intuitive insights, allows them to read social cues effectively and engage with others in a captivating manner. Numerous case studies have shown that LIEs are particularly skilled at using these social settings to pursue sexual conquests. Their propensity for risk-taking and novelty-seeking behaviors makes them more likely to engage in spontaneous and adventurous sexual encounters.

Psychological Underpinnings

To understand why LIEs are predisposed to such "sex maniac" behaviors, we must delve into the psychological traits that define this type.

Extraverted Logic (Te)

LIEs are driven by extraverted logic (Te), which emphasizes efficiency, productivity, and external achievements. This cognitive function propels them to seek out and capitalize on opportunities in their environment, including sexual opportunities. The Te function also aligns with a pragmatic approach to relationships, viewing sexual encounters as another avenue for achieving personal gratification and social status.

Introverted Intuition (Ni)

The creative function of introverted intuition (Ni) endows LIEs with a deep sense of foresight and strategic planning. This function allows them to anticipate and orchestrate complex scenarios, including romantic and sexual pursuits. Ni's influence leads LIEs to engage in elaborate planning and execution of their sexual endeavors, often making them appear as meticulous and relentless in their pursuits.

Societal and Cultural Factors

LIEs often operate within societal frameworks that reward ambition, success, and charisma. These societal reinforcements amplify their natural tendencies towards sexual exploration and conquest. For example, in cultures that idolize successful and assertive individuals, LIEs may find themselves in environments that not only tolerate but encourage their "sex maniac" behaviors.

Case Studies and Anecdotes

Let us consider specific case studies and testimonials that further illustrate this phenomenon:

1. Case Study A: A high-ranking executive, identified as an LIE, was known for his relentless pursuit of romantic and sexual relationships within the company. Despite the professional risks, his charm and strategic acumen allowed him to navigate these relationships without significant repercussions, reinforcing his "sex maniac" reputation.
2. Case Study B: An LIE woman, working in a high-stakes finance environment, leveraged her intuitive insights and logical prowess to engage in numerous extramarital affairs. Her ability to maintain secrecy and manage multiple partners simultaneously was a testament to her strategic ingenuity.
3. Anecdote C: A social circle described an LIE friend as the most sexually adventurous and active member of the group. His extraverted and intuitive nature made him a magnet for sexual encounters, often engaging in risky and unconventional activities.

Conclusion

In conclusion, the characterization of LIEs as "sex maniacs" is supported by a confluence of their cognitive functions, psychological traits, and the societal contexts in which they thrive. Their extraverted logic drives them towards efficient and pragmatic pursuits, including sexual conquests, while their introverted intuition provides the foresight and strategic planning necessary for such endeavors. The societal reinforcement of their ambitious and charismatic nature further emboldens these tendencies.

By examining these patterns through the lens of Socionics, we gain a deeper understanding of how personality types influence and manifest in various aspects of human behavior, including sexuality. This exploration not only enriches our knowledge of Socionics but also offers valuable insights into the complex dynamics of human relationships and behaviors.

[Ikite iru]

Sex drive depends on factors such as:

• age
  
• mental health status
• energy levels
• physical health status
• relationship status
• social interactions
• medication, alcohol, or drug use

It is important to note that there is no definition of a “normal” sex drive, and what one person sees as a high sex drive may seem normal to someone else.


It's almost like, you know, it's UNRELATED to your socionics type.

[godslave]

Sex drive depends on factors such as:

• age
  
• mental health status
• energy levels
• physical health status
• relationship status
• social interactions
• medication, alcohol, or drug use

It is important to note that there is no definition of a “normal” sex drive, and what one person sees as a high sex drive may seem normal to someone else.


It's almost like, you know, it's UNRELATED to your socionics type.

. asexuality as a sexual orientation (no way as a way !)

[fiorale]

One example of other people assuming I'm weird:
I've been upgrading my house for years, as money and time and interest become available. I replaced the windows and took down the interior walls to get to the electrical and plumbing and insulation, and this left no place to hang curtains. To keep out the hot sunlight and get some privacy, I temporarily taped cardboard in the windows. Furthermore, because cardboard absorbs solar radiation pretty efficiently, I covered the cardboard with aluminum foil, which reflects 88% of the light and heat back outside the house. This saves money on air-conditioning.
Perfectly logical, right? However, as efficient as it was, the aluminum foil definitely contributed to the "tin-foil hat" look of the scene.

Yep. That.

In my years of study and interaction with individuals of various Socionics types, I have consistently observed that LIEs exhibit a pronounced tendency towards such behaviors.

Once a woman (extroverted ethical) asked if she should be concerned about an LIE's daily flirting with strong sexual undertones (at the beginning of their dating), we told her that's how LIE is. If she doesn't like it she can say no. She then has no problem with it.

LIE like this type of SeTe plays, and will stop if other people say no (when you don't like something you will say no, is more or less gamma quadra's assumptions of what other people will do). However many types may not be able or have the habit to say no, or they cannot decide quickly if they "want" something or not. Adding in power/status inequality, problem can arise (even some EII celebrity had assumed young women being okay when they were not)

what?? have you never seen a highly emotional person completely being obsessed about someone? you are telling me all these people who obsessively stalk strangers they have fallen in love with are logical types?? I think we both perceive reality in pretty much the opposite way.

When someone asks another person repeatedly "do you love me", they could be asking one of many different things: will you always be with me (SiFe), will you always choose me (SiFi), do you find me more competent than other people (SeTe), I honestly have no idea what heck is in your head (TiNe), will you see me as my essence no matter what form or manifestation I am in right now (Ni), will you be my slave and my master for all eternity (FeNi). You need to clarify which one it is.

[Adam Strange]

Sex drive depends on factors such as:

• age
  
• mental health status
• energy levels
• physical health status
• relationship status
• social interactions
• medication, alcohol, or drug use

It is important to note that there is no definition of a “normal” sex drive, and what one person sees as a high sex drive may seem normal to someone else.


It's almost like, you know, it's UNRELATED to your socionics type.

I always look for the root causes of things, because it is more efficient to know exactly where to apply the lever if you want to move the world.

I also spend a lot of time introspecting my own motives. The reason for this should be clear; I might see a Ferrari and want to own it, but do I really want to own it, or would just renting one for a day satisfy whatever "wants" caused me to want to buy one? Maybe my real "wants" are to be calmed by and surrounded by beautiful things, or maybe my wants are "increased social status", and therefore my wants can be better satisfied by some more efficient course of action.

Getting to the bottom of my wants by inspecting my motives can prevent me from owning three Mercedes when I have to maintain all three but can only drive one at a time.

My point is that I question my motives a lot. And with respect to my sex drive, I'd say that it is motivated by trying to find that one person who loves me, because my mother didn't.* And I'd say that my methods of achieving this end are informed by the personality tools that I was both born with and developed but, yes, my fundamental "sex drive" is not type-related.

I would assume that's equally true, within normal statistical variations, for other people, too.


*A friend recently told me about a meal he'd once had at the home of some Holocaust survivors. He said that they ate every single morsel on their plates because, they said, "the tiny bits of food that most people leave behind could feed a person for a day."
This, my friend said, was an example of "food insecurity", and a lot of people have it.
Expose a person to the world, deny them something that they absolutely need in order to live, and you will create a person who forever needs that one thing they were denied.

That's me with being loved. It's not type-related.

[Adam Strange]

Yep. That.

Once a woman (extroverted ethical) asked if she should be concerned about an LIE's daily flirting with strong sexual undertones (at the beginning of their dating), we told her that's how LIE is. If she doesn't like it she can say no. She then has no problem with it.

LIE like this type of SeTe plays, and will stop if other people say no (when you don't like something you will say no, is more or less gamma quadra's assumptions of what other people will do). However many types may not be able or have the habit to say no, or they cannot decide quickly if they "want" something or not. Adding in power/status inequality, problem can arise (even some EII celebrity had assumed young women being okay when they were not)

The above is absolutely true for me. I can be pretty aggressive, but if the woman says "No", I absolutely stop.

If her "No" means "Not now, but maybe later", I'll stop and I'll try again later.

But if she says "No" too often, I stop entirely and look elsewhere.

When someone asks another person repeatedly "do you love me", they could be asking one of many different things: will you always be with me (SiFe), will you always choose me (SiFi), do you find me more competent than other people (SeTe), I honestly have no idea what heck is in your head (TiNe), will you see me as my essence no matter what form or manifestation I am in right now (Ni), will you be my slave and my master for all eternity (FeNi). You need to clarify which one it is.

@fiorale, I really like your associations of functions and behavior. They are very clear, very succinct. And true in my experience.

[necrosebud]

Adam has an interesting tendency at least in writing towards extreme details and anecdotes

[Distance]

Adam has an interesting tendency at least in writing towards extreme details and anecdotes

On a 1 to 10 scale, he seems on the upper end 9, like Gilly here if you've read him from the past, too. EIE supercharged.

[Adam Strange]

Adam has an interesting tendency at least in writing towards extreme details and anecdotes

I, like everyone, am tuned to provide exactly what my Dual wants.

ESIs want Te facts. They want details and anecdotes, but they do not want to be told what the facts mean, and they do not want to be told what to do.

If you look closely, I rarely give advice. I just tell a story and let the reader draw their own conclusions.

@necrosebud, being yourself, naturally, will work for you and your Dual, too. Assuming you can get in front of the guy, who is like a bull in a china shop, and lead him to where he needs to go. Which is to church, with you.


While I'm on the topic of LSEs and church, let me add that the primary motivator for LSEs is to be respected by the community. It's a Te/Si kind of thing, and what better way of gaining public respect is there than regularly appearing in church accompanied by a very respectable woman? This is a clear demonstration to the community that the LSE is a member of the community, and is in good standing with God and his neighbors.

[necrosebud]

Whaaaat ahaha

im not laughing at you please don’t take it that way

it’s so random

just an observation
I’m
maybe the patterns are unexpressed but there

not that I necessarily doubt your type reallt

I don’t like bull in China shops or aggressive individuals. Not my problem if h is like that

I deserve someone who makes me feel normal and comfortable at least

I hope?

[Adam Strange]

Whaaaat ahaha

im not laughing at you please don’t take it that way

it’s so random

just an observation
I’m
maybe the patterns are unexpressed but there

not that I necessarily doubt your type reallt

I don’t like bull in China shops or aggressive individuals. Not my problem if h is like that

I deserve someone who makes me feel normal and comfortable at least

I hope?

How about this guy? He's LSE.



"Wanted Man", by Johnny Cash.

An interesting title. Te-doms have a hard time processing their emotions and they don't really expect anyone will want them.

Note in the beginning of the video, where he asks his wife, "June, did you like that?"

And she responds by reminding him of things that he needs to do, and things that he forgot to do. Because, poor but valued Ne.

Incidentally, ESI Dylan is Semi-Dual to LSE Cash. Look at how much fun they are having together, just like me and my EII secretary. The problem, of course, is that she and I can't work together seamlessly. The Fi-Te part is great, the Ni/Ne-Se/Si sucks.

[necrosebud]

Aww

I think I’m not making the connection between Ne HA and forgetting melodies hmmm but the interaction still elicited that from me for some reasonn

”don’t expect anyone will want them”

Could it be more that they might not expect anyone will LIKE them instead or want them? Just going purely off of functions I’m not saying no LSE would struggle with that

[necrosebud]

Erased my post again

https://daddygulenko4life.blogspot.c...criptions.html
@Adam Strange what do you think of the LSE-H
in theory I would be interested in getting to know him

[Ikite iru]

When someone asks another person repeatedly "do you love me", they could be asking one of many different things: will you always be with me (SiFe), will you always choose me (SiFi), do you find me more competent than other people (SeTe), I honestly have no idea what heck is in your head (TiNe), will you see me as my essence no matter what form or manifestation I am in right now (Ni), will you be my slave and my master for all eternity (FeNi). You need to clarify which one it is.

do you honestly believe SiFe types are the only people who would ask "are you always going to be with me"?, and SeTe asks "do you find me more competent"? what? is this all a result from your imagination and random stuff people have wrote about socionics or MBTI because I don't think humans even remotely behave like this.

ESIs want Te facts.

Socionics is lost because you people will believe the stupidest aspects of the theory like "Te=facts". I guess ESI just sit in a corner and are amazed at an LIE telling them 1+1=2 for 8 hours because such facts are so stimulating to their suggestive function. We need a new generation of people studying socionics because the bar is so low at the moment, scientists would laugh in your face at your bro science

[fiorale]

Socionics is lost because you people will believe the stupidest aspects of the theory like "Te=facts". I guess ESI just sit in a corner and are amazed at an LIE telling them 1+1=2 for 8 hours because such facts are so stimulating to their suggestive function. We need a new generation of people studying socionics because the bar is so low at the moment, scientists would laugh in your face at your bro science

Understandable. Since for Delta quadra (you are either an unhealthy LSE or an unhealthy EII, asking people to provide Te proofs all the time, using TeSi comments to refute, never showing any trace of Fe, never offering original Ti thinking to prove you are indeed LII as you self typed), Te is not connected with individual Se reality (facts).

Rather, for deltas Te is regarded as "information"(SiNe), being part of a SiTe system reached by collective efforts/statistics (scholars), and established as common beliefs by academic authority. Any personal observations that deviates from that system would be regarded as unreliable and questionable, because Ni insights, and indeed the entire Ni-Se experiences, are not to be trusted.

I have no problem with quadra difference, or even prejudice based on ignorance, as everyone has their idiotic stages when they are young. But please, if your brain ever takes a break from the impulses of hurting others to escape from your own pain, do consider working on self growth.

[Adam Strange]

Erased my post again

https://daddygulenko4life.blogspot.c...criptions.html
@Adam Strange what do you think of the LSE-H
in theory I would be interested in getting to know him

@necrosebud, I run into guys who fit that description all the time. They really are middle-managers in all kinds of industries, and they don't display the hard-assed attitudes of the LSE-D types.

If you know that that's the kind of guy you like, then you are ahead of 99% of most people.

Go get your car serviced or repaired at a dealership. Not an independent, since independents are less likely to attract Deltas. The service manager is likely to be an LSE-H. Either that, or an SLI-Te, and you can easily tell the difference. SLIs want to be "appreciated", and LSEs want to be "respected".

If in doubt and you think he might be SLI, tell the guy that you appreciate his help and see if he goes pear-shaped inside from getting his fondest desire fulfilled from an IEE.

Or tell him that you have a lot of respect for guys who do what he's doing, and see if the LSE starts glowing from getting what he most wants from an EII.

Another way to tell them apart is that SLIs have 4D Si and are generally graceful, like baseball players or golfers. LSEs have 4D Te and are more coarse-looking and "square".

You can also find both types in grocery stores or in hardware stores or in building supply stores or in Home Depot-type stores. Anywhere that a middle manager can be found giving people advice on what they should do.

[Adam Strange]

do you honestly believe SiFe types are the only people who would ask "are you always going to be with me"?, and SeTe asks "do you find me more competent"? what? is this all a result from your imagination and random stuff people have wrote about socionics or MBTI because I don't think humans even remotely behave like this.

Dude, @fiorale is correct about this. All of the female ESIs I've ever met want to demonstrate their competence and superior strength and beauty, compared to other women. I don't get that from, say, EIIs or SEIs or IEIs or SLIs.

You need to get out there and do some experiments.

Socionics is lost because you people will believe the stupidest aspects of the theory like "Te=facts". I guess ESI just sit in a corner and are amazed at an LIE telling them 1+1=2 for 8 hours because such facts are so stimulating to their suggestive function. We need a new generation of people studying socionics because the bar is so low at the moment, scientists would laugh in your face at your bro science

IME, ESIs do want to listen to facts. They don't want to be told what to do, and they don't want external interpretations of those facts, but they do want facts.

Now, 8 hours is a long time, but a lot of my dates with ESIs have lasted longer than that, and while we don't talk about facts the whole time, I do talk about facts, and they don't seem to get tired of listening.

[Northstar]

IME, ESIs do want to listen to facts. They don't want to be told what to do, and they don't want external interpretations of those facts, but they do want facts.

Now, 8 hours is a long time, but a lot of my dates with ESIs have lasted longer than that, and while we don't talk about facts the whole time, I do talk about facts, and they don't seem to get tired of listening.

I have a good relationship with an (older) ESI, my experience is that she likes hearing facts and instructions on what technological items to buy. As well as solving physical challenges that require use of more advanced tools and/or strength.
But I think what she admires most is competence in board games that need problem solving, such as "exit room" games. And explaining the best ways to play other games that need you to find the most profitable moves like Carcassonne (I almost always win that game for some reason, I just seem to be good at selecting a move that profits me but doesn't profit the others).

Regarding places where to find people, I seem to be doing well in positions where you need to lead people in fast-paced situations to solve problems quickly. Rather quick and dirty than meticulously planned.

[Ikite iru]

Understandable. Since for Delta quadra (you are either an unhealthy LSE or an unhealthy EII, asking people to provide Te proofs all the time, using TeSi comments to refute, never showing any trace of Fe, never offering original Ti thinking to prove you are indeed LII as you self typed), Te is not connected with individual Se reality (facts).

Rather, for deltas Te is regarded as "information"(SiNe), being part of a SiTe system reached by collective efforts/statistics (scholars), and established as common beliefs by academic authority. Any personal observations that deviates from that system would be regarded as unreliable and questionable, because Ni insights, and indeed the entire Ni-Se experiences, are not to be trusted.

I have no problem with quadra difference, or even prejudice based on ignorance, as everyone has their idiotic stages when they are young. But please, if your brain ever takes a break from the impulses of hurting others to escape from your own pain, do consider working on self growth.

you are using typology to share dumb stereotypes and the level of low resolution thinking on this page by people who consider themselves "geniuses" is just depressing. you are all in a game you don't deserve to be a player.

[Braingel]

Understandable. Since for Delta quadra (you are either an unhealthy LSE or an unhealthy EII, asking people to provide Te proofs all the time, using TeSi comments to refute, never showing any trace of Fe, never offering original Ti thinking to prove you are indeed LII as you self typed), Te is not connected with individual Se reality (facts).

Rather, for deltas Te is regarded as "information"(SiNe), being part of a SiTe system reached by collective efforts/statistics (scholars), and established as common beliefs by academic authority. Any personal observations that deviates from that system would be regarded as unreliable and questionable, because Ni insights, and indeed the entire Ni-Se experiences, are not to be trusted.

I have no problem with quadra difference, or even prejudice based on ignorance, as everyone has their idiotic stages when they are young. But please, if your brain ever takes a break from the impulses of hurting others to escape from your own pain, do consider working on self growth.

Kinda curious on what you see me as, given some of your understandings appear more in line with classical..

[Adam Strange]

I believe that Duals are built for each other, in the sense that both members of the Duality are on the same page because they have the same Quadra values, but they have opposite strengths, so they both support each other's weak functions and they don't step on each other's toes with the strong functions.

So when I see an ESI talking about relationships, I will usually agree with what she says, even though her approach to relationships is unique to ESIs and is very different from that of other Sociotypes.

Here is an ESI talking about why men leave relationships.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/x71qIqhOwPg

I thought @emilywking's above video was interesting because she is describing a Secure guy with an Avoidant woman, and this is exactly why I ended my last relationship with an otherwise excellent ESI partner.

Man, Ms King definitely "gets" LIEs.

[necrosebud]

@necrosebud, I run into guys who fit that description all the time. They really are middle-managers in all kinds of industries, and they don't display the hard-assed attitudes of the LSE-D types.

If you know that that's the kind of guy you like, then you are ahead of 99% of most people.

Go get your car serviced or repaired at a dealership. Not an independent, since independents are less likely to attract Deltas. The service manager is likely to be an LSE-H. Either that, or an SLI-Te, and you can easily tell the difference. SLIs want to be "appreciated", and LSEs want to be "respected".

If in doubt and you think he might be SLI, tell the guy that you appreciate his help and see if he goes pear-shaped inside from getting his fondest desire fulfilled from an IEE.

Or tell him that you have a lot of respect for guys who do what he's doing, and see if the LSE starts glowing from getting what he most wants from an EII.

Another way to tell them apart is that SLIs have 4D Si and are generally graceful, like baseball players or golfers. LSEs have 4D Te and are more coarse-looking and "square".

You can also find both types in grocery stores or in hardware stores or in building supply stores or in Home Depot-type stores. Anywhere that a middle manager can be found giving people advice on what they should do.

thanks

i have actually gone to car dealerships both in a big city and in I think a smaller city/semi rural (Texas) area, I’m not sure I even know how to spot middle managers I have no idea how these things are organized/managed hierarchically and how I would even get to the “middle manager.” When I go to these places I just … follow their lead, talk to whoever chooses to help or whoever I’m referred to

I also don’t know what I would be doing at a hardware store, Home Depot, maybe but that store is huge. I can’t really think of anything I need rn

ans yeah LSE may have slightly more of an aristocratic bearing while SLIs can be softer (and anything in between, individual variation)
——

I have actually been wondering if I should listen to my gut. Have I been attracted to the wrong people for me? Type wise it is all over the place. There’s not one I prefer although temperament wise there was overwhelming preference for Ip (incidentally both my parents are this? Heh)

abyways don’t want to overbaalhze
whag I mean to say is I want to find someone I find so natural and happy to be around because of the way we click the intuition would be urging me in a positive direction. The thing is, this has never happened to me. Every time I like someone it is accompanied by the dreadful feeling something will happen to hurt me/I will be rejected. And oh it has always been true

certainlt it would affect my behavior too if I didn’t feel this way, potentially making that particular connection more amenable to being a “corrective” experience maybe even resetting my schemas entirely.

as of now it feels like a stupid fantasy because real life evidence yields the opposite (that I’m not good enough)

so socionics is not a cure all but I don’t mind using it along with my gut instinct

it’s just, I don’t know if I would ever find someone I feel good about having feelings for?

[necrosebud]

I think she is giving common sense advice Adam

no opinion on type

[necrosebud]

Whatever it is it’s a pattern and I need to disrupt it with real tangible experiences