Adventures in Dating

[Bethanyclaire]

I think that dating is complicated, and a lot of who you end up with comes down to the game of who is around-and-mostly-suitable when you both are actually looking.

yeah I mean if I went to a club this weekend and a hot SEI/ILI/LSI/IEI/ SLE/SLI/ ILE/ IEI hit on me (maybe about the IEI) and they seemed the right type of 'hot'..as in they seemed nice rather than just sexy (or omg you're my soul mate! red flag lol)..then I'd be up for dating any of them. (lol) In a few years time I'd probably include other types too lol.

I matched with cute semi-dual a while ago but I ended up getting distracted by someone else and we stopped talking. Perhaps if we had gone on a date and liked each other, we may have ended up dating. He wasn't exactly my type but he looked safe. Anyway, I bring the SEE up because I wanted to say that it's probably easier for a semi-dual relationship to get started and stay together. If they have problems early on it might feel like it's worth working on- the positive feelings might be enough to keep you interested. But if duality doesn't feel right at first , people might get scared off. Because it takes longer to feel the postive effects. I'm not mentioning this btw to say that people should give duals a chance..I mean to say that with a dual, the feeling of hesitancy to try it out could be more confusing than with a semi-dual or another type and it will just slow things down too much and feel like too much effort to explore.

I haven't had a relationship so what do I know. But I do have a catalogue in my mind of all the men I've met who seemed like long-term material. There are quite a few duals who have expressed interest in me and I think a few of them were 'suitable' for me, and one stands out as the best. A couple of them appear to travel a lot..not sure that's the life I would have wanted so maybe not right for me even if 'it could have been', based on chemistry alone. As for semi-duals I think I've met a couple who seemed like definite long term material...maybe one who was a maybe..ok I'm getting lost on what my point is..I think you can learn to figure out if someone has good potential as a partner for you- based on instincts you develop or realising what qualities you need in a person. But with duality it might be harder to spot it than with other types. I think it can be hard to spot with kindred types also :/ and maybe that's why Gulenko doesn't recommend kindred pairs lol.

and just as I write this...an SLE I've spoken to several times before online has re 'liked' me. We have spoken on the phone and after that I was like...no...something not right about this match. His face is fine, maybe a bit too 'naughty' looking. Anyway, I doubt I'll be talking to him again, because...there was already too much tension and I don't feel like I could make sensible decisions about him if I were to date him.

edit: I can appreciate things might be different for us because of our respective ages..however I am above 30 so not thaat young.

[Tallmo]

I am going on lots of blind dates now. Mostly through Tinder. I am getting used to this more and more, it has taken awhile for me to warm up to this dating thing after my long break.

So I matched with this woman who looked ok, and she said she likes poetry and writes novels as a hobby. Sounds interesting to me, maybe something to talk about. She was silent for some days but then replied and started flirting with me like hell. "You seem nice, wanna meet?". smiley, smiley, smiley. "Wanna come to my place, I'll make some ice tea" smiley, smiley... She really turned up the heat, so we set a date for today. I really appreciated her (maybe abnormal) flirting. I was aware that she might be slightly eccentric, because women don't normally flirt like this right away, but I am made of flesh and blood and I don't feel like resisting this kind of invitation.

Then today while I was at work she texted me and said she was looking forward to our date. More smileys. Then in the afternoon she suddenly wrote "I feel depressed, people just come and go in my life". So now I was sure this was an eccentric case, but what the hell, I am committed to dating now, so let's see what happens. I was hoping for some intimacy, to be honest.

When we met I immediately understood what was going on. She seemed completely spaced out, depressed and robotic. She almost didn't greet me, then showed me were to sit in her garden, poured me some ice tea and we sat down. My verdict: A very introverted, possibly pathologically depressed ILI. Her eyes seemed weird, she had a spaced-out stare. Very soon she started talking about previous dates. One man had been arrogant to her, some other dates had offered her drugs. She said she didn't understand why people didn't like her, or why she didn't have any friends. She said she was unemployed, had been working in the post office for awhile. She didn't like summer, things feel stagnated.

We then went on a walk and we had very little to talk about. I told her something about myself, and I talked about the environment, because I like this part of town were she lives.

I feel bad for her. She definitely wasn't as stupid as she looked like. At one point she even smiled at something I said. But she is a person who is regressing into introversion and stagnation, and possibly something even worse. Probably been happening for a long time.

Before meeting her I thought to myself: "Let's see where this goes, I have no idea". And that was true even more than I could imagine. No warmth, no flirting, almost no soul. So I had completely wrong expectations.

[crazymaisy]

Super-Ego @Tallmo ... I feel bad for y'all. I'm ILI and my Dad was SEI. Find that girl a good SLE or SEE. I know, I know, not up to you.

[Tallmo]

Super-Ego @Tallmo ... I feel bad for y'all. I'm ILI and my Dad was SEI. Find that girl a good SLE or SEE. I know, I know, not up to you.

Yes, although her general mental state kindof overshadowed her type. And the surprising difference between her online persona and real self.

I need these experiences so I do t feel bad personally.

[End]

@End, I have mixed feelings about commitment.

Yes, I date a lot, but as far as I know, I only have one offspring.

As for committing to one woman, when I got married, I was sooooo happy that my Don Juan days were over. Of course, I viewed my Supervisor wife as being much superior to me, so I felt I won the jackpot and no other woman would be better, so why look?

I recently got a shock when one of the women I was dating (an ESI) started to get serious. She was trying to nail my feet to the floor and I realized that I wasn't ready for that.

Other women have wanted to marry me since my divorce, but they were never "possibles" in my mind. The ESI, on the other hand, was a "possible" in the Socionics sense, but a long shot in the social sense.
IDK, things just started to feel "too real" when I understood her intentions. I think I'm looking for an ESI who is better in every respect than I am, sort of like the way I felt about my Supervisor wife, but given Socionics ITRs, that might be an unrealistic expectation.

It doesn't help that my Fi sucks. Or that I'm dating people in the "over thirty" group, where most of the best people for relationships are already in one.

My own technically does as well but it's also the thing that tends to shine through. Everyone I've ever met in person tells me, despite my many shortcomings, that I'm a "good" person. That my "intentions" are so pure it almost hurts (in so many words). Hell, most all dogs, cats, even wildlife flock to me as if I was Saint Francis reincarnated. He's not even my Patron! (Mine is Agustine and his mother's story is well worth regarding).

As for the ESI trying to nail you to the floor I once again reiterate what I have said before. Challenge her to reveal her goals and ambitions to you. Hell, you can go first provided you do so earnestly and honestly. Tell her your heart's desire. Where would you like to see yourself 10 years hence? Does this vision of yours somehow dovetail with her own? Hell, can she let her guard down enough to even say "I've got this/asking for a friend..." trope that even she knows is so obvious a cover-up for her own perspectives and yet tries it anyway?

You can play with her a bit here but ultimately you must realize what you're hopefully dealing with. A broken woman who can potentially be repaired (with great effort) from your end. This is not to dissuade you from the task for if you undertake it and are correct in your assumptions you will forge an emotional bond of adamantine strength. Pressure makes a diamond after all.

She's going to shit test you just short of going nuclear. She can and will flirt with other men. Men who aren't rakish enough to exploit that situation effectively BTW but inflaming your insecurities was the goal there and if she failed to get you to get abusive somehow that's a point so well and thoroughly in your favor you may have just flat out won in ways that'd take me books to lay out effectively.

I will once more point out that Attachment>Duality and that if you're on the business end of "Princess Kaguya" Nuclear Shit Tests your best bet is to tell that haughty bitch to get bent and seek a paramour amongst the company of a common bar. Still not a good idea but far better than pining after that impossibly overrated "Can't Understand Normal Thinker" as it were .

[adage]

Adam expressed that he didn't view this woman as a "possible." Why should he have initiated a conversation with her about their hopes and dreams? Doing that would've been pointless—or even harmful if she had incorrectly perceived it as an indication that he was interested in a future with her. Since she wanted commitment but he saw no long-term potential in their relationship, it's for the best that he ended things when he realized, as opposed to misleading her and wasting her time.


I think it's pretty common sense that going into a relationship with the intent to "fix" them is a bad idea.


As far as I can tell, Adam provided one(1) piece of information about this woman and their relationship—that she wanted commitment and he wasn't ready to give it. Why are you assuming that she would've flirted with other guys in order to inflame his insecurities? Why assume that she's the kind of person to be unfaithful and purposefully hurt their partner? Do you make this assumption about all women who want to be in committed long-term relationships? That's incredibly unreasonable.


Are you aware that the way you talk about women consistently comes across as demeaning? You often refer to women in a way that dehumanizes them. (I believe I've seen you refer to them as "cunts" and "bitches" elsewhere.) And I think the wrongness of telling a woman to go to a bar and get bent should be self-evident. You have no right to tell a woman to do something sexually with her body. I understand that you weren't actually advising Adam to say that (or at least I hope so lmao), but why would you even say it at all, @End??

Reading this post, something poped into my head.

The way End is expecting women to be sounds like the worst stereotypes of SEEs.
Cheating, making jealous, sexual promiscuity, fickleness, using relationships with Fi creative to advance Se base's goal...
And less worst that they'll be taken by talks of the future and being seen as "hot babes".

Not saying it makes anything okay, just that I'm seeing a patern in the stuff he writes and how others react.

[nifl]

I'm seeing a patern in the stuff he writes and how others react.

His style and interests is most commonly seen among Beta NF, and the negative reactions from others generally center around his perceived rudeness and 'dehumanizing' attitude - this is how Fi valuing types perceive Fe valuing types, in general: as inadequate in relation to kindness and emotional compassion. Fi valuers are, for Fe valuers, inadequately emotionally responsive, too easily offended and too focused on how the individual may feel about a situation to see the importance of the collective emotional state. He is also too creative and too 'epic' in his view of the world to be considered Alpha SF, who also are more open to different views, much more focused on the here and now and who certainly don't have the spiritual imagination that he seems to possess. That he isn't a Te type, and especially not a Te introvert, should be clear from basic observations and theory - they prefer emotional comfort and kindness over elation and agitation.

[adage]

His style and interests is most commonly seen among Beta NF, and the negative reactions from others generally center around his perceived rudeness and 'dehumanizing' attitude - this is how Fi valuing types perceive Fe valuing types, in general: as inadequate in relation to kindness and emotional compassion. Fi valuers are, for Fe valuers, inadequately emotionally responsive, too easily offended and too focused on how the individual may feel about a situation to see the importance of the collective emotional state. He is also too creative and too 'epic' in his view of the world to be considered Alpha SF, who also are more open to different views, much more focused on the here and now and who certainly don't have the spiritual imagination that he seems to possess. That he isn't a Te type, and especially not a Te introvert, should be clear from basic observations and theory - they prefer emotional comfort and kindness over elation and agitation.

Culture plays too.
Fe types where I live would think what he says is rude and dehumanizing too. About 90% of people here would.
Fe types aren't completely blind to how others are affected to the point of spewing garbage for the fun-a-fun-fun of it or whatever, people who do that tend to be disconected with the culture around them and following past cultural settings and stereptypes, or stuff idk about. Fe valuers don't want to ruin the collective emotional state to pass some weird agenda that keeps getting them shoved and powerless to influence people's mood into something they deem pleasing, they are more likely to trample people who don't respect(in their opinion) the collective emotional state.
It's very possible for an Fe valuer to hate the gut of another Fe valuer, same goes with Fi valuers, they can hate eachother and find eachother amoral and dehumanizing.

End doesn't seem to care about neither individual nor collective states.
I don't know what's his type and I don't care, what I wrote wasn't about what type he is.

[nifl]

@adage
>Fe types where I live would think what he says is rude and dehumanizing too. About 90% of people here would.
It's about how his thoughts are expressed, much less about what he says concretely. Any Fe type may dislike what a person says and by extension how he or she says it, because they disagree.

>Fe types aren't completely blind to how others are affected to the point of spewing garbage for the fun-a-fun-fun of it or whatever
Fe types, being ethical, are very aware of how they affect others. They may spew garbage anyways, if that's what they want.

>Fe valuers don't want to ruin the collective emotional state
They don't want to ruin, but they may want to change it, especially with the idealistic vision given by Ni. This need to change the external world is more typical in the extraverts, also. He may be EIE.

>they are more likely to trample people who don't respect(in their opinion) the collective emotional state.
If they think that the collective emotional state is good, then yes. If they want to change it, they may ''trample'' those who resist. If there is acceptance, they respond positively and reward with warmth and laughter, camaraderie.

>It's very possible for an Fe valuer to hate the gut of another Fe valuer
Yes, but that's unrelated to Socionics, partly. This is about concrete opinions. With regards to the style of expression, and to some degree the way of thinking, they are easier for Fe valuers to accept than Fi valuers, on average.

>End doesn't seem to care about neither individual nor collective states.
You really think so? He often talks about collective morals, as far as I've seen. He's interested in and talks about the unification of the church (there's Ti valuing), for example. It's a common theme for Fe types, especially combined with Ni who have more of a transcendent, one truth type vision of things.

>I don't know what's his type and I don't care
I hope he does, if he's interested in knowing his correct type.

[End]

I think it's pretty common sense that going into a relationship with the intent to "fix" them is a bad idea.

I'd agree but there is an important caveat I've frequently mentioned. See, before you even think of trying to "fix" something you must first determine if the task is even possible. You cannot fix "the lost" as I term them for they refuse to believe the truth that things can actually get better.

Your latter points are kinda in line with darker predictions I make about people. People with "danger hair" as I like to term it. Look, I'm not all that good at putting things gently. PolR does that to a person. Yes if you point this and that out you're absolutely right I could have said it all better for the normies and other random folks but, well, when you've got 2 standard deviations on most people you've ever met outside your own direct family along with how ILI's tend to work yeah...

My points are made in crass and insulting tones perhaps, but am I wrong? A woman may want commitment from a man (or vice-versa) but how they try to secure it makes all the difference. Am I demeaning women? Well, given how most everyone (men and women) have broken attachment now if I demean them I am imagining the broken trying to bond with other broken people and the whole damn thing is a tragic and idiotic farce! Gah! Sad sorry fools damning themselves to unhappiness and totally avoidable misery! And as I'm sure you know ILI's (and Gamma's in general) don't suffer fools lightly. I include myself in this category as a recovering broken individual. Fucking hell was I such an idiot. I cringe so very hard at past me's reactions to things that flew over my head then but are so painfully obvious now.

You also missed my intent in regards to Adam with my advice. If you don't know of the legend of Princess Kaguya go look it up. She really earned the "Cunt" epitaph by literally requiring her potential suitors to perform obviously impossible/irrationally difficult tasks to even garner her attentions.

If you meet such a person, even if they are your dual, you're far better off hitting the bar yourself and trying you luck there. Odds are bad for you but it's far better than a total impossibility. Let some other poor dumb fool try and fail to pass Kaguya's planet-cracking nuclear shit tests. Don't be dumb enough to actually try to pass such tests from a woman who is so utterly and completely broken and fucked in the head that only literal Divine Intervention stands a chance of repairing that level of damage!

A new "meta" (Most Effective Tactics Available) idea just popped into my head: If you think you've met a "Kaguya" type bring up the legend and discuss it in detail if you can. Makes it less of a lecture and more of a hopefully illuminating experience in regard to the recipient. You're just a good storyteller here. If they (hopefully) see how they're like Kaguya and how that's a bad thing ya just might be dealing with a "fixable" paramour...

[Adam Strange]

When I got divorced and started looking for a Dual, I read absolutely everything I could find about them. I remember every little quirk I read that they are supposed to have, and the reasons given for why they have that quirk.

After a while, I started dating them. Or, in the case of the males, just hanging out with them. And what I’ve discovered is that most of the identifying behaviors are actually true, but I believe that the reasons given for these behaviors are not always true. Rather, the reasons given are merely guesses by people whose values make it hard to understand the ESI type. And those guesses are very often misinterpretations of their motives.

When I was a kid, I wanted to learn how to make telescope mirrors. There is a huge body of literature on this topic, written by hundreds if not thousands of people who have done this, and it’s all useless to a beginner. You can’t learn how to make a telescope mirror by reading about it. There are simply too many ways to go wrong. You have to have someone physically present to show you what to do. Then, having done it, you can look back and say “Oh, I see now what the books were saying.”

Once you’ve done it, you see that it’s simple. But if you only have theoretical knowledge of the process, expect to spend a lot of time failing.

[End]

I criticized you for:
1. Making unreasonably negative assumptions about a particular woman's intentions (presumably on the basis of her gender since you know nothing else about her)
2. Referring to women as "cunts" and "bitches"
3. Implying that you would tell a woman to go to a bar and get bent (regardless of whether you wanted this implication to be taken seriously or whether it was intended to be "your point," it's clearly there)

Your response to this criticism? Basically, "I have too high of an IQ to bother with being gentle."

Dude, I was not criticizing you for not being gentle; I was criticizing you for speaking in a way that demeans women and thus promotes misogynistic attitudes. You can be intelligent and blunt without shamelessly assigning negative traits/intentions to a woman you know nothing about, referring to women in dehumanizing terms, and implying that you would verbally degrade a woman you deem "lost" by telling her to go to a bar and get bent.

Danger hair assumption pretty much confirmed. Point 3 is the clincher. See, I never told anyone to go to a bar and get bent in the objective sense. I instead stated that if you somehow found yourself dating a "Kaguya" you'd be far better off just dumping their ass and trying to do better at a local bar over trying to please them/pass planet-cracking nuclear shit tests. Now, again, this is a bad idea. Looking for good life partners amongst borderline/actual alcoholics is likely to end badly for you. Your chances aren't Zero however and if you're trying to get Princess Kaguya to take you seriously instead of rolling those terrible dice well, 1 percent chances beat absolute zero percent chances every damn time.

I'd tell the "Kaguya" women I may meet in the future of the legend and point out how she never really opened herself up to the possibility that someone might just want to make her happy in an ordinary sense. A simple gesture, a thoughtfully considered gift, they can be just as beautiful as a jeweled branch or as unique and interesting as a cowry shell. Context matters after all. Genuine gentile kindness given not out of an ulterior motive or goal but because it's just the right thing to do can and does speak volumes.

I may not know you or anything but say we're both in a cold house and I have a thick blanket that is sadly only big enough for one. The cold isn't enough to end either of our lives but it's obvious I can endure it far better than you. I'd just hand you the blanket and endure a shiver or two in that case.

If they get where I'm coming from they can likely be saved/fixed/repaired. It'll be hard from both ends but if success can be had it will and we'll both come out the other end of it all with a bond so strong nothing anyone could ever hope to throw our way could ever hope to damage it. We saw each other at our worst, believed in what we could become at our best despite that, went all in, and got a payout beyond our wildest expectations.

All it takes is allowing yourself to be truly open with other people. Again, a concept that is easy as fuck on paper, but requiring Herculean courage and strength of will in practice. I speak from experience now. Even now I'm still fucking it up but at least now I'm learning from them because I'm now catching myself in my mistakes...

[Adam Strange]

It wasn’t a date, but I spent five hours working one-on-one with a male ESI yesterday, and then when 6 PM rolled around, we went out to a restaurant and grabbed dinner. We got a lot done and got along pretty well, and this morning I feel mentally great. Almost as if I’m invulnerable against the world’s insanity.

This feeling of calm confidence and being well-balanced is what I usually feel after spending a few hours with Duals, be they male or female.

Just reporting on one identifying aspect of Duality, FWIW.

[Lord Pixel]

This dating app is not as bad as other's I've seen, if all these accounts are real, but at least the bots seem obvious.

There are several conversation strings I'm in right now, but they die out pretty quick and some responses take days.

But the fastest responder and the longest conversation I had was with an ESE. Very easy to talk to because her Fe gave out tons of validation with emojis and once I got her talking about cooking it was off to the races. But, honestly I got bored after awhile and we unmatched.

The second fastest responder escalated things pretty fast. I thought she was a bot based off the picture, but her responses seemed too casual, maybe she was a catfish. I asked her to give me 2 truths and a lie and I'll guess the lie, so she says "I'm a dancer, I'm a sex goddess, I can play football." She can't play no damn football. So I guessed right. Immediately after she's all like "I'm down for hook ups too." lol, not even 4 lines in. Anyway we unmatched, she claimed she was IEI, idk since it was too short but I can't argue with beta quadra lol.

But with this app I see the difference between talking to people on a dating app and meeting people on a random site. My last 2 serious relationships I met random websites. And with this app there's an expectation for things to work and unspoken score card that proves or disproves if this person is what you're actively looking for. On the random site, since you are not looking for anybody, you ending up just talking to someone not because of expectation but pure desire because whatever is happening between you to is working. It's the difference between tying to force feed every single fish in the pond your bait, some fish will eat some will reject, verses putting bait on a string and only the fish that will eat it find it. Crap analogy but I hope that makes sense. It's probably better put, instead of looking for something and comparing what you find to what you're looking for, you aren't looking for anything and stumble upon something you like and just enjoy the things you like about what you happened to find by chance. Expectations basically.

[Bethanyclaire]

I don’t tend to like dates with Estps. It can’t be over-stated enough that you will not like most duals you meet. Sure, you can end up with a dual you don’t have much in common with but that’s not the reason you end up with them. Estps have ditched me on a date, twice now. The first date didn’t actually happen- it was supposed to be online and he vanished. That one was upsetting. The second was in person. I wasn’t even annoyed- it was so cowardly, I maybe felt a bit of pity for him. It’s like they sensed something odd- that I knew something about them

[The Banana King]

The SEI I was dating broke up with me earlier this year. Duality is a SHAM

She was a fucked up SEI and I'm a fucked up ILE. It's just that we're fucked up in incompatible ways. We had quite a few differences in terms of life goals. She was avoiding responsibilities in terms of her own family and just wanted to travel the world. Which is kinda weird for an SEI but whatever. And in my case I want to have a stable relationship (and potentially get married) which I would say is uncharacteristic of a young ILE. Just 3 months into it and she decided to break it off because I was too serious.

My final typing for her is SEI-Fe FEVL sp/so. I guess a big point of disagreement for us was that I wanted to influence/take control over her future (1V clashes with 3V). Another problem was her being sx-blind, from my perspective that is why she was incapable of commiting (and from her perspective, my so-blind was annoying to her as well, like how an apparently extraverted guy could be so socially retarded). This relationship made me confirm that I'm VLEF and not FLEV.

Anyways, it was really painful for the first few weeks since I never loved a girl like this before, but whatever.

Now (after getting rejected and or ghosted a million times lol) I'm seeing a self-proclaimed MBTI IxFP who I type as IEI-Fe. I don't believe in socionics or duality anymore but we're getting along really well. She's friendly, we can talk about various things and also doesn't mind long hikes (big plus imo). I'm not sure about her PY type but it seems to me she is 4V. Despite being an N type she doesn't have any plans for the future. Which makes her a good blank slate for a 1V to push their ambitions on to lol. Also I hate to brag but her boobies are MASSIVE. Reminds me of my IEI-Fe ex lol. Anyways I hope it goes well.

[Lord Pixel]

Ended up talking to an LSE on facebook about typology. I just posted in the group, didn't know their type and we just debated over a dumb house habit. It turned into a 40 comments comment section and I actually had a good time talking to her and found out her type. She ended up saying "What's you're type? You're fun!", and we both found out we are delta quadra, it was nice. She's got a boyfriend and kids, but now I don't know what to do with this energy boost I just got. Anyway, Gulenko was right about them romance styles for sure.

[Bethanyclaire]

True love trumps duality

the elephant in the room (though of course this could be a dual too, sorry I have to be annoyingly diplomatic…) but yeah I feel like everyone needs to admit what you said

[Adam Strange]

An SLI tries to love an EIE.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Their love scene in the movie was awkward and embarrassing to watch. Even Vangelis' music couldn't save it.



Trying to cross the Caregiver-Infantile axis with the Aggressor-Victim axis. Bad sign, right there.

[jroc]

I wanted to ask you about Blade Runner, because the “love scene” in that film between your character and Harrison Ford’s is incredibly aggressive and uncomfortable to watch. It almost starts out like it’s going to be an assault. He pushes you, blocks the door, shoves you across the room, and then the saxophone kicks in and there’s kissing.
Well, honestly, Ridley [Scott] wanted me to date him. He tried very hard in the beginning of the show to date him, and I never would. I was like, nah. And then he started dating the actress who played Zhora, Joanna Cassidy, and I felt relieved. And then we do this scene, and I think it was Ridley. I think Ridley was like, fuck you. I was thinking, “Why did this have to be like that? What was the point of that?” and I think it was Ridley’s none-too-subtle message that he was getting even with me.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/sean-y...many-toxic-men

apparently, according to the actress, the scene was creepy because Ridley Scott had a grudge on her for rejecting him
but I agree Harrison ford and Sean young are probably conflictors

[Aria]

Back at the lonely heart's club because I now have experienced "redpill" firsthand. And was called a bigot by one when I mentioned I found the ideology and a lot of its community repellant. When I responded that not liking something or disagreeing with it isn't bigotry, dude just wanted to keep arguing and asked me to report back to him the definition of bigotry. Like he was a professor giving me an exam.

Lol. I thought we were all supposed to be grown out here. I wish I would have told him "have fun arguing with women online from here to eternity," but was somehow able to muster the self-control not to. Took myself out to brunch as a reward for that one.

Do you ladies meet guys like this??

[Lord Pixel]

Back at the lonely heart's club because I now have experienced "redpill" firsthand. And was called a bigot by one when I mentioned I found the ideology and a lot of its community repellant. When I responded that not liking something or disagreeing with it isn't bigotry, dude just wanted to keep arguing and asked me to report back to him the definition of bigotry. Like he was a professor giving me an exam.

Lol. I thought we were all supposed to be grown out here. I wish I would have told him "have fun arguing with women online from here to eternity," but was somehow able to muster the self-control not to. Took myself out to brunch as a reward for that one.

Do you ladies meet guys like this??

Red pill thinks some lucky lady is gonna go down there and pity date them to stop their tears.

[Aria]

Red pill thinks some lucky lady is gonna go down there and pity date them to stop their tears.

Ha, yes. I was surprised because I thought redpill was more of a young guy thing. He said I didn't try to get to know him as an individual but was foisting my pre-conceived judgments onto him based on his online affiliation. But it's not a worldview I can take seriously at all, it's toxic....why go farther, potentially involving more attachment and feelings when you know it isn't a fit? Blargh. I guess he was just mad-hurt.

[Adam Strange]

Online interactions can be sooooo misleading.

[Bethanyclaire]

I would recommend looking at the instagram page ‘beammeupsoftboi’. It’s made by a British lady. I don’t know if there’s an American equivalent. She basically light-heartedly mocks young men who think they’re nicer to women than they are. Young men who think they’re relatively psychologically aware and this means they can do no wrong lol. Sometimes you feel sorry for the guys but I think she’s aware that her commentary straddles the line between gentle teasing and severe criticism of sexism. Men are all at bit ST/NTish. They get offended easily by a woman appearing ‘dumb’ to them. Even though they might be making you feel anxious by showing off and trying to make you nervous..sometimes they ignore you because they think they’re above conflict, but really they’re just annoyed by you making them angry at you for being ‘dumb’. (If they’re gay it’s different, often). When I was in love with an idiot recently, I used to say that he felt like my child I loved him so much. We all want someone who makes us feel secure, but men are bigger babies than women so we have to find a baby who’s going to play nice and not be mean to us too often.

[Bethanyclaire]

I was supposed to see a guy last weekend and he cancelled because he had to go to A&E. And then he asked me when I was free next and I told him and now he’s not replying. Maybe that’s why he’s 38 and single. Because he doesn’t understand that people have lives and it takes two people to make a plan of action. What do you want from me lol. Anyway I’m talking to someone else who seems less scared of having a conversation.

[Averroes]

I’m newly single and expect to go at least the next 3 months without a date while I try to shed my happy weight

[Tallmo]

I was supposed to see a guy last weekend and he cancelled because he had to go to A&E. And then he asked me when I was free next and I told him and now he’s not replying. Maybe that’s why he’s 38 and single. Because he doesn’t understand that people have lives and it takes two people to make a plan of action. What do you want from me lol. Anyway I’m talking to someone else who seems less scared of having a conversation.

I just came from a date with a SLE -Dominant subtype. (tinder first date) She told me the same. Sometimes guys ask her on Tinder if she wants to meet, she says yes, but then nothing happens. Kindof strange because she has nice looks. I guess there's something about that last step, to make the date happen. I can feel it myself: That it takes that extra effort to suggest a time and place, maybe make some adjustments and make it a reality. When you do it doubts might occur, dark thoughts like, "why bother?", but you just have to ignore that and take the risk. But it could also be that people have multiple contacts going on and it's just a numbers game and they decide to meet someone else.

[Bethanyclaire]

I just came from a date with a SLE -Dominant subtype. (tinder first date) She told me the same. Sometimes guys ask her on Tinder if she wants to meet, she says yes, but then nothing happens. Kindof strange because she has nice looks. I guess there's something about that last step, to make the date happen. I can feel it myself: That it takes that extra effort to suggest a time and place, maybe make some adjustments and make it a reality. When you do it doubts might occur, dark thoughts like, "why bother?", but you just have to ignore that and take the risk. But it could also be that people have multiple contacts going on and it's just a numbers game and they decide to meet someone else.

yeah I’ve had a few bad experiences and they don’t really leave you…you learn from them but it makes you worried it’s gonna happen again. It must be hard to be on dating apps for years.

he actually messaged back (so now I’ve gotta message both of them..they’re both cute. A new problem)

what you say makes perfect sense though.

also, Estps do this thing where they manipulate the situation so that you’re asking them out.

A cute Estp once arranged to meet and then I think I said something stupid that put him off. When I showed my friends his pics, they straight away noticed a pic where his friend was holding some sort of gun and they were like ‘he’s not for you..’ so sometimes it’s probably just not meant to be (that one was a tinder date.)

i want to say that the actual asking out part..shouldn’t feel too awkward…and if it does then that’s not a good sign, but I’m not sure

making the arrangements does suddenly add stress, you start imagining the date…and it’s normal to be stressed I guess- you don’t know the person but you’re hoping there will be chemistry based on what you’ve seen so far and it’s won’t be a disaster- so yeah bit stressful

[Tallmo]

i want to say that the actual asking out part..shouldn’t feel too awkward…and if it does then that’s not a good sign, but I’m not sure

making the arrangements does suddenly add stress, you start imagining the date…and it’s normal to be stressed I guess- you don’t know the person but you’re hoping there will be chemistry based on what you’ve seen so far and it’s won’t be a disaster- so yeah bit stressful

It shouldn't feel awkward, but there's something unconscious about it. It nails you to reality. To make things happen. It has felt complicated for me to suggest a time, place etc. Not impossible but I really have to think about what to say. It's a necessary challenge though, men have to learn this.

A funny thing happened to me with another girl today. We have never met but we matched a year ago. I then suggested that we meet, but no reply. And just last night, a year later, at 1 am, she replied "sure, why not ". So in the morning, I wrote "great, what about tomorrow night?". And now... no reply. Maybe she will take a year to reply again. With this pace we will maybe have our coffee together 5 years from now. Anyway, she is very attractive, like really nice looking, probably SEI-Harmonizing based on her pics, with a small chance of IEI. We'll probably never meet.

he actually messaged back (so now I’ve gotta message both of them..they’re both cute. A new problem)

Just meet both of them. No problem. Decide later.

[Lord Pixel]

So that LSE girl that I had a good time talking to ended up messaging me on messenger and talked to me until I fell asleep. I could feel the sx intensity because she was giving me her whole life story, and what she's been through is pretty wild. She still messages me and it's fun and easy to talk to her and I don't want to be rude but she's got a whole kid and boyfriend.

I can easily see how Ne and Si are playing into this, I got a glimpse into how Fi plays into the Fi/Te duality.

[Aria]

I would recommend looking at the instagram page ‘beammeupsoftboi’. It’s made by a British lady. I don’t know if there’s an American equivalent. She basically light-heartedly mocks young men who think they’re nicer to women than they are. Young men who think they’re relatively psychologically aware and this means they can do no wrong lol. Sometimes you feel sorry for the guys but I think she’s aware that her commentary straddles the line between gentle teasing and severe criticism of sexism. Men are all at bit ST/NTish. They get offended easily by a woman appearing ‘dumb’ to them. Even though they might be making you feel anxious by showing off and trying to make you nervous..sometimes they ignore you because they think they’re above conflict, but really they’re just annoyed by you making them angry at you for being ‘dumb’. (If they’re gay it’s different, often). When I was in love with an idiot recently, I used to say that he felt like my child I loved him so much. We all want someone who makes us feel secure, but men are bigger babies than women so we have to find a baby who’s going to play nice and not be mean to us too often.

It's just the truth. I've had men tell me I need to be willing to speak up more and be honest about how I'm unhappy before cutting things off (though they often miss the small ways I AM expressing discontent), then when I do become more confrontational they freak out and lash out. Like what more do you want from me. You don't make it easy to communicate when I do.

[adage]

It's just the truth. I've had men tell me I need to be willing to speak up more and be honest about how I'm unhappy before cutting things off (though they often miss the small ways I AM expressing discontent), then when I do become more confrontational they freak out and lash out. Like what more do you want from me. You don't make it easy to communicate when I do.

I've had enough women pull that "speak up" card on me then freak out and lash out to tell immaturity comes in all genders.

I've come to see it as a red flag when anyone asks for honesty or directness, it's asking the other person to change. Honesty should come naturaly, not be requested, because then it's not fully honest as in it's not a real reaction but following with the other's demand.

[Aria]

It shouldn't feel awkward, but there's something unconscious about it. It nails you to reality. To make things happen. It has felt complicated for me to suggest a time, place etc. Not impossible but I really have to think about what to say. It's a necessary challenge though, men have to learn this.

A funny thing happened to me with another girl today. We have never met but we matched a year ago. I then suggested that we meet, but no reply. And just last night, a year later, at 1 am, she replied "sure, why not ". So in the morning, I wrote "great, what about tomorrow night?". And now... no reply. Maybe she will take a year to reply again. With this pace we will maybe have our coffee together 5 years from now. Anyway, she is very attractive, like really nice looking, probably SEI-Harmonizing based on her pics, with a small chance of IEI. We'll probably never meet.



Just meet both of them. No problem. Decide later.

Lol, I love that you played it so cool after a year.

And it's very attractive (to me) when a man has a good plan of what he wants to do without being a steamroller. Like, "okay great. If it sounds good to you, how about dinner at 'x' at 7? I can pick you up if you're comfortable, or meet there." Because you know he has a plan and has confidently said what he wants, but won't be all hurt and touchy if you don't go along with everything. I feel like this is good regardless of the romance style.

[Aria]

I've had enough women pull that "speak up" card on me then freak out and lash out to tell immaturity comes in all genders.

I've come to see it as a red flag when anyone asks for honesty or directness, it's asking the other person to change. Honesty should come naturaly, not be requested, because then it's not fully honest as in it's not a real reaction but following with the other's demand.

Sure, immaturity in communication happens with both genders. You gotta find that rare person who is a healthy mix of being able to give and receive respectful honesty.

[Bethanyclaire]

@Dreymagine no probs..hmm I wouldn’t exactly call it a feminist forum..I’m no expert though. I think it could be good to have a bit more discussion around gender because I think those type of convos can make dating feel less stressful. And there’s a lot of dating talk I can try to elaborate on the baby thing later baby baby baby oh

[Aria]

For what it's worth, @Bethany, the men I'm thinking of--regardless of age or if they already had a marriage under their belt--were still in emotional adolescence. So your "baby" comment resonated with me, lol. I took it in a more tongue-in-cheek, joking way, though.

Obviously they don't represent all men everywhere.

[Lord Pixel]

It shouldn't feel awkward, but there's something unconscious about it. It nails you to reality. To make things happen. It has felt complicated for me to suggest a time, place etc. Not impossible but I really have to think about what to say. It's a necessary challenge though, men have to learn this.

A funny thing happened to me with another girl today. We have never met but we matched a year ago. I then suggested that we meet, but no reply. And just last night, a year later, at 1 am, she replied "sure, why not ". So in the morning, I wrote "great, what about tomorrow night?". And now... no reply. Maybe she will take a year to reply again. With this pace we will maybe have our coffee together 5 years from now. Anyway, she is very attractive, like really nice looking, probably SEI-Harmonizing based on her pics, with a small chance of IEI. We'll probably never meet.



Just meet both of them. No problem. Decide later.

If she had plans tomorrow night, or wasn't totally sure she's free, that would make it harder for her to reply. It's much better to just ask when they are free and get them to agree to hang out one of those days. It's easy for a person to feel pinned down to make a decision on the spot when someone else chooses the day for them to meet up, and it's way easier to not reply than to make that decision right on the spot like that.

[Bethanyclaire]

Sexual chemistry with duals is a bit intense too- it’s apparent even via messaging..it’s a bit gross lol, even if you fancy them. I have a bit of long covid atm and I’m kinda more anxious than usual..using this an excuse to put myself first, and not put myself in anymore stressful dating situations, as in don’t be afraid to rearrange if you’re not feeling ok etc.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

a lot of women really are selfish, entitled, inconsiderate, hyperreactive, demanding, think they have it figured out and that everything they do is justified or sensible but its not. when they should disagree and explain something they resort to manipulative tactics, ambiguous hinting that would require the person to have prior knowledge, to have the particular assumptions and ideas that u urself hold, and to be focused on that in the present moment as if its efficient or reasonable to expect someone to rearrange their whole mind specifically to get your hints. i believe that is a lot of the time communication and presumptions issue
and men are the same
its also common to think someone is speaking in riddles when u dont understand where they are coming from while u urself genuinely are not making the effort to understand the person before you
ofc another reaon to use hints is a way to preemptively deal with a man's future manipulation bc u suspect if u do tell him waht u mean he will just find alternate ways to cross ur borders while justifying it with bs.
if i want to know someone i ask them what they would think of a hypothetical situation
i find it annoying some ppl think they can waste time forever and never get into the deep stuff that would make or break right away. its like they are trying to fit an ideal image without knowing what it is or being commited to it out of themselves and somehow expect that way they can make a working relationship while simulatenously again avoiding on purpose actually communicating and commiting to being a better preson bc they think that an attempt from the other party to control them. that sounds like a narcissist the word gets thrown around a lot but if u think most ppl are sound human beings then u are just delusional and probably narcissistic yourself.

making hints instead of actually communicating comes from the assumption that ur temporarily saving someone stress bc they are not able to presently handle what u will communicate rn. but the context here is if what u say would be mean and inconsiderate then in turn its fair u would get a negative reaction so long as its appropriately measured to the situation. sometimes the criticism may have really bad implications for the other person in it to the point it gets to "allow urself to be hurt for me" which is like placing ureslf above someone else and using force to pressure them to submit. a person can have such demeaning assumptions and mindsets. theres a moral dilemma thats about being self sacrifical caring for the other person while also not wanting them to sacrifice themselves for you but if they dont want to sacrifice themselves for u then they dont carea bout u as much as u about them but why would u be fine with someone sacrificing themselves for u if u care about them. some assholes figure they can just get off on the drama so they keep causing it lol
u have to look for urself instead of getting into trouble repeatedly while expecting them to do everything for u as if they have no needs or life of their own. a lot of ppl think they have to fit some standards that the other gender wants of them but its just trends that fools on either side set THEMSELVES for either side and both sides thats just largely presumed to be true and expected of any real gender. its ritualistic behavior of ppl who do it bc its trendy not bc they can use their minds to learn and adapt on their own.