Erotic attitudes

[PinKDiGiT18]

Adam, do you see the Victim romancing style in your own romantic interactions, for example during your LSI relationships? I know you are LIE but you have a certain confidence and take-what-I-want demeanor that doesn’t impress as being as passive as the Victim description usually denotes.

[Still Alive]

are you very sure that the girl you're dating is really an aggressor adam? don't you think she would've made her intentions clear by now if that were the case, instead of lsetting you wait? don't you think it's more of a victim-victim dynamic?

[Adam Strange]

Adam, do you see the Victim romancing style in your own romantic interactions, for example during your LSI relationships? I know you are LIE but you have a certain confidence and take-what-I-want demeanor that doesn’t impress as being as passive as the Victim description usually denotes.

@PinKDiGiT18, the confidence and "take-what-I-want" demeanor that you see is learned behavior from extensive experimentation. But at a foundational level, I still operate as a "Victim", as defined in the post above.

Being a Victim doesn't necessarily mean being passive. To my way of thinking, it means being unsure of my SO's continued affections if she hasn't approached me recently. I certainly don't see relationships as being stable. I see them as naturally changing.

I actually told the ESI that she should read up on what LIEs are like, so if we don't work out, she'll be able to choose the next guy better than she did her last two husbands (SEE and LSI). I truly am an optimizer in all things. She didn't respond to that statement. I have no idea what she was thinking. Lol. I mean, if you are an Aggressor and you think that relationships are static and the guy you are dating is talking about the next guy, what might you think? I have no idea, but I'm hoping she interprets my statement as demonstrating confidence.

[Adam Strange]

are you very sure that the girl you're dating is really an aggressor adam? don't you think she would've made her intentions clear by now if that were the case, instead of lsetting you wait? don't you think it's more of a victim-victim dynamic?

No, @Alive, I still think she's an Aggressor. Just the way she talks makes me think that she wants what she wants. She doesn't always know how to get it; she needs a lot of help there, but she's sure about what she thinks she wants.

I've dated Victims before. I've dated an LIE, an ILI, and a couple IEIs, and there just is no spark of sexuality between these types and me. Well, I found one of the IEIs sexually attractive, but she didn't feel that way about me.

I've dated two LSIs and one ESI and they are sure of what they want. They aren't incredibly aggressive about it, but they know what they want.

I was visiting the ESI I'm dating at her house and she was showing me the basement and she said "Oh, I still have my laundry up" and pointed to a bra hanging from a clothesline near the ceiling. I wouldn't have noticed it, but she made sure that I did. Maybe she's extra proud of her secondary sex characteristics, IDK.

What I actually thought was that her bra looked like it was made from formed cardboard or something. I guess this is how they are made now, because the LSI wore bras like that. The SLI ex's bras were all white cloth and lace. I'm sure they had some elastic in them, but I never made a study of them.

Maybe I should ask my ex where she bought her bras and what brand they were. She always had impeccable taste.

[Stray Cat]

The Erotic Attitudes article on this forum (https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...otic-Attitudes) has been edited several times and is now, in my opinion, less useful that it was when I first encountered it. The older version contained some interesting information about the ongoing interactions of the various romance styles. (https://web.archive.org/web/20120615...otic-Attitudes)

For example, the earlier version said that:


Typical characteristics of the Victim romance style

• prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person
• not always confident about revealing that interest
• inclined to focus on whether or not the other person might reciprocate the interest
• inclined to question whether or not the other person's interest will remain constant with time
• preference for partners that provoke in the individual a certain sense of awe in terms of power, physical presence, and the like
• appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them
• this takes the form of the individual somewhat expecting the partner to be "mean" on occasion
• in the case of Victim males with female partners, this latter trait assumes a characteristic analogous to a "knight devoted to his princess"
• inclination to openly admit to a relationship having been ended by the partner rather than by the individual himself

This romance style is defined by focus on Ni which is dynamic, irrational, and introverted, with perceptions of inner imagery away from the present physical reality. This means that a Victim sees attraction between two individuals as a dynamic state, which he feels is completely natural. This accounts for a Victim's inclination to focus on the mutual attraction, or particularly the attraction felt by the other person, as to its longer-term perspectives and implications, as well as a certain expectation that the partner will continuously take action to confirm the attraction. Failure on the partner to do so results on the individual assuming that it's already changing. The individual counts on the partner to forcefully bring the individual "down to earth from his thoughts " and focus on the immediate physical reality, continuously.



I mention this because I'm feeling guilty. I've been dating an ESI that I met on Match for a few months, but it isn't at a stage where I feel I'm fully committed to her. In my mind, we are "dating" and are therefore non-exclusive. No promises have been made, no commitments forged. I like her a lot, but I haven't heard from her for a while.

She recently told me that she was going to be busy for the next three weeks and isn't available for dates. I was OK with this for the first week, but now I'm thinking, "What else is out there?" When we were dating every couple weeks and had a firm appointment for our next meeting, I was fine. When I'm left in limbo without any input from her, I tend to wander.

When we first started dating, I stopped looking at my Match account. Well, this morning, I opened it and found that I had 71 "likes" and one of them is from an ESI who lives an hour away. Now the question is, would I be a rat if I went on a date with this other ESI? I stayed married to my ex-wife for years after she moved out, and in retrospect, that wasn't faithfulness on my part, that was stupidity.

Open the door to the ESI who lives an hour away. Leave the door open a crack to the ESI who's been busy. You did the right thing, in general, by giving her options. Now, do the right thing for yourself by interacting with an interested dual.

Sometimes if an aggressor realizes a good victim has options, it sparks us to get off our a** (so to speak).

Hope everything works out for you

[ashlesha]

Open the door to the ESI who lives an hour away. Leave the door open a crack to the ESI who's been busy. You did the right thing, in general, by giving her options. Now, do the right thing for yourself by interacting with an interested dual.

Sometimes if an aggressor realizes a good victim has options, it sparks us to get off our a** (so to speak).

Hope everything works out for you

i already marked this constructive, but i just wanna say hey. i feel understood in the role of the alleged dual of some LIE or another when i read this. bless

[ashlesha]

if she's anything like me and she felt any urgency to secure commitment after going on a few dates, she wouldn't be busy for a few weeks. trust

[ashlesha]

u guys are trying so hard to see the "obvious"

[Adam Strange]

u guys are trying so hard to see the "obvious"

Uh, no, I'm actually clueless.

[Adam Strange]

Open the door to the ESI who lives an hour away. Leave the door open a crack to the ESI who's been busy. You did the right thing, in general, by giving her options. Now, do the right thing for yourself by interacting with an interested dual.

Sometimes if an aggressor realizes a good victim has options, it sparks us to get off our a** (so to speak).

Hope everything works out for you

Thanks, @Stray Cat.

[Stray Cat]

u guys are trying so hard to see the "obvious"

Uh, no, I'm actually clueless.

This seems like a cool place to discuss & I'd say it doesn't matter whether you're confused or got all your ducks in a row. Even got college buddies where all we do is ask questions & discuss theory. Fun times. Not for everyone, obviously.

Approaching situations like this with an open mind might help other members or even complete strangers down the line

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

With erotic attitudes I think there is a lot of natural subtlety and nuance that people don't see cuz 'ewww other people's sex is gross and disturbing' to us naturally. So I don't view infantile as 'diaper play' just like I don't view being a victim erotically as liking to be sexually abused because it's a fucked up thing to say as nobody likes being sexually abused lol- but maybe you would be naturally more open minded to some suggestive/aggressively "darker" stuff other people would take way too seriously.

Anyways I think they are best understood by being more subtle with it and not taking them so literally. so to me being an infantile is more like being 'tended to' in ways that I'm not really into. kinda hard to explain cuz it's so subtle- its not that I don't want a partner who doesnt care or is a jerk- I'm just not into being tended to in that way. I mean if anybody thought that I as an IEI actually enjoy being sexually abused or thought they could rape me and then say 'but you're an IEI- you're supposed to like this stuff!' I would probably rightfully punch them in the jaw- even if I would hurt my hand more than their face cuz of my 1D Se and cuz I'm a Shadow Priest class and not a Warrior/Brawler.

[Stray Cat]

With erotic attitudes I think there is a lot of natural subtlety and nuance that people don't see cuz 'ewww other people's sex is gross and disturbing' to us naturally. So I don't view infantile as 'diaper play' just like I don't view being a victim erotically as liking to be sexually abused because it's a fucked up thing to say as nobody likes being sexually abused lol- but maybe you would be naturally more open minded to some suggestive/aggressively "darker" stuff other people would take way too seriously.

Anyways I think they are best understood by being more subtle with it and not taking them so literally. so to me being an infantile is more like being 'tended to' in ways that I'm not really into. kinda hard to explain cuz it's so subtle- its not that I don't want a partner who doesnt care or is a jerk- I'm just not into being tended to in that way. I mean if anybody thought that I as an IEI actually enjoy being sexually abused or thought they could rape me and then say 'but you're an IEI- you're supposed to like this stuff!' I would probably rightfully punch them in the jaw- even if I would hurt my hand more than their face cuz of my 1D Se and cuz I'm a Shadow Priest class and not a Warrior/Brawler.

My experience with the victim is they'd prefer someone take charge in a direct, physical way in the concrete world. This doesn't necessarily mean something vulgar. There's a spectrum. How two consensual adults rate to each other in the sack is their own business.

The closer she & I got the more experimenting we did.

[FreelancePoliceman]

I think I’ll be the only person so far to answer the question in the OP, lol. Anyway, as a male infantile, this is how I experience my “role.”

Regarding what I like from women, it’s a bit of a cop out since it’s the stereotype, but I like to feel “cared” for; that my well-being is an object of concern. It tends to take me a little off-guard when a partner expresses this, since I don’t tend to think about this sort of thing myself. I think that’s why I tend to be so...receptive? appreciative? when someone expresses this for me — a mindset of “I can’t even be bothered to prioritize my own health, but here you are thinking of mine; you must really love me.” And I do think I’m inclined to view that sort of thing as an expression of love. Particularly I’m receptive/appreciative when someone makes food (good food, at least!) for me, or gently strokes my body, especially my chest, back, and arms. I also like to feel like my partner emotionally values me in a certain way — and this is, I think, the root of why this style is called “childlike,” since I think the way I like to be felt about is similar to the way someone feels about children, or at least the way I usually feel about them; namely that they bring happiness to you just for existing; that thinking about their potential fills you with optimism and joy; that you want to watch what they’ll grow into; that you want to keep them safe and let them know they’re loved and cared for, but also to give them some distance so they can grow. It’s hard to think of any other appropriate analogies. I also realize this sounds a bit weird to be saying about yourself, but don’t know how else to express it.

As for how I act in a relationship, I tend to become playful, probably a lot more than people who haven’t seen me in this way would guess I’d act. I suppose this is another way the name “childlike” applies. Mostly this is a tendency to make jokes a lot, verbally spar with my partner, and act a little silly. Also, if my partner is an Fe person and in a good mood for a while, I typically start to become more emotive myself (I’m usually not like this at all) and talkative.

As to how I express love, I’m not sure if this is common to all Ne types, but I’m not so good at being proactive. I tend to not to plan much in advance, especially secretly. I can never think of what to get someone for their birthday or a holiday, and I’ve had to force myself to make notes when I’ve had ideas, because I know I won’t remember and will be stumped when the time comes. What I prefer, though, is either A) for my partner to tell me what she wants me to do for her. I tend to be submissive to my partners in that way — I genuinely like making them happy; sometimes I can even feel uncomfortable if someone’s made happy by something I did, because it feels like I’m getting rewarded instead of her. B) for an idea to suddenly pop into my head and to just do it. For example “she looks a bit stressed; I’ll give her a massage.” “She’s restless; let’s go stargazing!” I tend to experience sudden bursts of affection and want to express them immediately. Maybe also similar to a child, I guess. シ

On the topic of being made happy by someone else’s happiness, I recall reading an article, I think by Stratiyevskaya, which mentioned an LII-ESE couple, where on the LII’s birthday, the LII gave the ESE gifts. I remember thinking how weird it was that I related to that.

There are obviously other things I do for my partner, and other ways I act toward them, but the above is all I can tie to this sort of infantile “role” in a relationship common to Ne-egos.

I looked at the archived thread @Adam Strange linked. Here’s the LII/ILE infantile description:

These types seem to exist outside their own sexuality. Sex is to be metabolized psychologically for them in an almost roundabout way - as an emotional entity, or possibly even an intellectual exercise. In a partner, they are looking for someone who will deal with (and protect) their quirks and understand their sexuality on the same intellectual/emotional level.

Yeah, this seems generally accurate. The way I naturally approach sex is probably a bit...”quirky,” to use the article’s phrasing, and difficult to really describe, but as it says, yeah, maybe like an emotional or intellectual exercise. I think it has to do with feeling vulnerable and nervous in these kinds of situations, and those feelings get filtered by Ne into more abstract thoughts and a tinge of...weirdness, I guess. I relate especially to the phrasing of wanting to be “dealt with” and “protected.” Images that come to mind seem a little weird to explain.

[PinKDiGiT18]

Where attraction is a dynamic state to Ni+Se, it’s an adaptive state to Ne+Si. The Aggressor/Victim pair is oriented at meeting goals. The Infantile/Caregiver pair is oriented at meeting needs.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Those pictures are kind of funny to me but something is also a little off about all of them as well. I think there are some truth to it- it might be the kind of general snapshot of what is happening but there are other layers.

I had a SLE dual once who I always envisioned as literally some sort of Paladin. ((The Cecil to my Rosa in a way even though you all know I hate Rosa ha)) However it was this ridiculous idealized image- because objectively speaking he wasn't really anything like that at all. But something about our unique dynamic, it's like I transformed him into a Paladin every time we met. He acted much more Paladin-y around me (and probably most other IEIs) even though objectively speaking his true class was a Gunner or Dark Archer. Or just plain Brute? lol. However, macho guys who are assholes to the rest of the world but sweet on you are just so hot and perfect. ((for str8 girl/gay guy cliche ness)) Sorry not sorry.

[The Reality Denialist]

Where attraction is a dynamic state to Ni+Se, it’s an adaptive state to Ne+Si. The Aggressor/Victim pair is oriented at meeting goals. The Infantile/Caregiver pair is oriented at meeting needs.

Lol, two Ne egos together: "Lemme peer further in this topic at hand but why the hell you do that?" Yes, it can be a source of frustration.

[MissDucki]

Alright, Ima give my perspective

I have always been the natural 'mom' friend. This nature tends to heavily come out more with my Infantile friends to say the least. They just go about Si stuff awkwardly and I just want to help dammit. I naturally seem to monitor peoples physical needs both quietly and verbally. I watch and see how they respond to the environment and from there I get to work. You need more sleep, more veggies, have you exercised? when did you have caffeine last? you eating pizza again? no, I am making you a meal etc...I become a busy mother duck naturally and get a bit naggy/fussy in this area if people let me. Infantile's always let me lol.
Infantile are not afraid to take advantage of this. They soak that stuff up like a sponge. I always love the look in their eyes when you do these tasks for them. They look at you with such admiration and thankfulness that it makes me feel appreciated and loved. That, and Infantile's really hate when you feel that they have let them down. I find Infantiles are not afraid to go above and beyond and show you and impress you in such an innocence way. They want to please you and do a good job. It's like a little boy who is puffing up his chest and getting all protective of his crush. I always love the Ne- view that infantile give me. I am always surprised at their observations and seem to be touched more by them. They bring a lot of joy into my life and I love that they are not afraid to act like a little kid with me. Supposedly Infantiles can be very protective but I have sadly not felt this yet.
The only time I get critical of this aspect is when it is seriously taken advantage of. I am not a second parent to my partner and I hate feeling that way. I do naturally caregiver but I don't want to feel taken advantage of because of it. I've had this happen more then a few times and it has left a sour taste in my mouth and I do feel a bit critical in this aspect. However, I think when I get a healthier balance of this, my tune will change.

The SEI is described as a pretty sexual and sensual type. Without going too much into detail or my..erm...preferences, I have always felt very comfortable in this area. Infantile seem to really respond well to my open and comfortable perspective on sex and sexuality. I also have a very sensitive nervous system. It is really hard for me to be touched so suddenly or just to have a strong impact without a forewarn. I really hated hugs for the longest time because of it. I need a lot of slow movement and long movements to feel comfortable and turned on. Lots of full body contact. The first time I made out with a guy, I was full on shaking and my teeth were clattering and I could not understand why. I liked him, but we did not have a lot of body contact and I didn't feel that emotional softness and closeness that I realized I didn't have but needed. When I made out with the next guy, an ILE, I did shake as well but, it wasn't as bad. There was more full body contact and touching and I felt more of those caring emotions and softness. Also, I tend to turn on much more quicker if there is a lot on slow and continuous movement. First time I got a back massage, after about 5-10 minutes I wanted to jump their bones lol.
I always appreciate it when someone is not afraid to ask for permission or asking how I am feeling. Can I do this? Can I do that? I know a lot of people don't like being asked to be 'kissed' for a first kiss, but that shit makes me melt and want them more. I feel so cared about because I can be so sensitive to touches and they want to be respectful. I also find it attractive when a guy is not afraid to ask me what I like and comfortable with me giving direction. I don't respond well to an Aggressors physical style because I don't like how 'confident' they are with touching me so quickly and assuredly because that often leads me to recoil and get annoyed. It's my job to be in change yo and control the direction in this case. I also love giving forehead kisses and cheek kisses.

There is one other thing I want to discuss real quick. I was reading another erotic style post on here and the discuss subtypes and other aspects withing these styles. One that really caught my eye and that I relate to is that I am physical/emotional caregivers and spiritual victim. I need to know a guy is an aggressor towards me in a spiritual sense. They are confident that they know that they want me, need me, and will protect me in a spiritual aspect. Like, I get wary and pull away more if I am not feeling this underlying aggressors attitude of knowing they want me without a question. Like you enjoy and respond well to my caregiver attitude but, do you want me? I really appreciate moments when there is a lot of joking and fun but, when I feel like a guy is just with me cause I can do those stuff, and then can be direct in someway about his feelings towards me as a women, without a doubt, it puts me at ease and move towards him. Then we can go back to the more light heated stuff.

[Northstar]

Alright, Ima give my perspective

What you wrote matches exactly my experience of SEI. Especially that part of long and slow movements with a large area of contact, similar to massage. Personally I find it boring to apply, relaxing to receive, but not sexual.

[Adam Strange]

Alright, Ima give my perspective

I have always been the natural 'mom' friend. This nature tends to heavily come out more with my Infantile friends to say the least. They just go about Si stuff awkwardly and I just want to help dammit. I naturally seem to monitor peoples physical needs both quietly and verbally. I watch and see how they respond to the environment and from there I get to work. You need more sleep, more veggies, have you exercised? when did you have caffeine last? you eating pizza again? no, I am making you a meal etc...I become a busy mother duck naturally and get a bit naggy/fussy in this area if people let me. Infantile's always let me lol.
Infantile are not afraid to take advantage of this. They soak that stuff up like a sponge. I always love the look in their eyes when you do these tasks for them. They look at you with such admiration and thankfulness that it makes me feel appreciated and loved. That, and Infantile's really hate when you feel that they have let them down. I find Infantiles are not afraid to go above and beyond and show you and impress you in such an innocence way. They want to please you and do a good job. It's like a little boy who is puffing up his chest and getting all protective of his crush. I always love the Ne- view that infantile give me. I am always surprised at their observations and seem to be touched more by them. They bring a lot of joy into my life and I love that they are not afraid to act like a little kid with me. Supposedly Infantiles can be very protective but I have sadly not felt this yet.
The only time I get critical of this aspect is when it is seriously taken advantage of. I am not a second parent to my partner and I hate feeling that way. I do naturally caregiver but I don't want to feel taken advantage of because of it. I've had this happen more then a few times and it has left a sour taste in my mouth and I do feel a bit critical in this aspect. However, I think when I get a healthier balance of this, my tune will change.

The SEI is described as a pretty sexual and sensual type. Without going too much into detail or my..erm...preferences, I have always felt very comfortable in this area. Infantile seem to really respond well to my open and comfortable perspective on sex and sexuality. I also have a very sensitive nervous system. It is really hard for me to be touched so suddenly or just to have a strong impact without a forewarn. I really hated hugs for the longest time because of it. I need a lot of slow movement and long movements to feel comfortable and turned on. Lots of full body contact. The first time I made out with a guy, I was full on shaking and my teeth were clattering and I could not understand why. I liked him, but we did not have a lot of body contact and I didn't feel that emotional softness and closeness that I realized I didn't have but needed. When I made out with the next guy, an ILE, I did shake as well but, it wasn't as bad. There was more full body contact and touching and I felt more of those caring emotions and softness. Also, I tend to turn on much more quicker if there is a lot on slow and continuous movement. First time I got a back massage, after about 5-10 minutes I wanted to jump their bones lol.
I always apprentice it when someone is not afraid to ask for permission or asking how I am feeling. Can I do this? Can I do that? I know a lot of people don't like being asked to be 'kissed' for a first kiss, but that shit makes me melt and want them more. I feel so cared about because I can be so sensitive to touches and they want to be respectful. I also find it attractive when a guy is not afraid to ask me what I like and comfortable with me giving direction. I don't respond well to an Aggressors physical style because I don't like how 'confident' they are with touching me so quickly and assuredly because that often leads me to recoil and get annoyed. It's my job to be in change yo and control the direction in this case. I also love giving forehead kisses and cheek kisses.

There is one other thing I want to discuss real quick. I was reading another erotic style post on here and the discuss subtypes and other aspects withing these styles. One that really caught my eye and that I relate to is that I am physical/emotional caregivers and spiritual victim. I need to know a guy is an aggressor towards me in a spiritual sense. They are confident that they know that they want me, need me, and will protect me in a spiritual aspect. Like, I get wary and pull away more if I am not feeling this underlying aggressors attitude of knowing they want me without a question. Like you enjoy and respond well to my caregiver attitude but, do you want me? I really appreciate moments when there is a lot of joking and fun but, when I feel like a guy is just with me cause I can do those stuff, and then can be direct in someway about his feelings towards me as a women, without a doubt, it puts me at ease and move towards him. Then we can go back to the more light heated stuff.

Jeez. My SLI ex enrolled us in a class so I could learn massage. It did nothing for me. Si-dom vs Si-PoLR.

[rose]

Jeez. My SLI ex enrolled us in a class so I could learn massage. It did nothing for me. Si-dom vs Si-PoLR.

Silly but I find comforting to know someone isn't into massage, it's like I didn't have the right to dislike that so far.
It's just awkward friction to me, makes my skin turn red and it's painful after a while.
I give good massages and was asked for many, very few offer one back. It was too much attending to other's wants and them moaning made me really uncomfortable.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I always apprentice it when someone is not afraid to ask for permission or asking how I am feeling. Can I do this? Can I do that? I know a lot of people don't like being asked to be 'kissed' for a first kiss, but that shit makes me melt and want them more.

Intersting. I know an ILE who is sooo compatible with what you just said. Too bad he's gay I would hook you two up. And yeah, that's a turn off for me ((well not 'turn off' exactly that's not very fair or nice- but it's definitely not a turn on.))

For me they need to just go for it. But I don't like it too rough or anything. My body still responds to soft-medium touches over rape-y ones. Like no pain or anything- but yeah, they need to have the confidence and aggression and manliness to just make me their bitch.

I want them to ask though if they want to d something like very kinky- because I'm realistically more vanilla even though my fantasies are often not so vanilla. SLE was perfect though- we were just in perfect rhythm together. Felt kinda like he was reading my mind almost at all times. But sadly his Fi polr fucked it up and I ended it. And maybe my Te polr too but mostly his Fi polr - at least with the lovemaking part lol. At that time I wasn't sure how to tank his polr or make it better and maybe I still don't even though it's my demonstrative. Really though, I just need to meet higher quality SLEs.

[Northstar]

Jeez. My SLI ex enrolled us in a class

Gah, I can't stand how deltas love their fucking classes for everything. The teacher/student dynamic drives me insane, they always want to teach you.

[Adam Strange]

Silly but I find comforting to know someone isn't into massage, it's like I didn't have the right to dislike that so far.
It's just awkward friction to me, makes my skin turn red and it's painful after a while.
I give good massages and was asked for many, very few offer one back. It was too much attending to other's wants and them moaning made me really uncomfortable.

After my divorce, I was at a party in a nice house in metro Detroit (there's still a ton of money in the Detroit area) and I ended up talking in a hallway with a female SLE. She said she was a massage therapist and she lived in Ann Arbor and she'd really like to give me a massage some day. I told her I appreciated the offer but I really wasn't into massages. It took a while to convince her that it was the massages that did nothing for me, not her.

While we are discussing the blank spaces in my Erotic Attitudes, I also had an LSI GF who told me I wasn't very romantic, so I got a book called "How to Be Romantic." All the sentences in the book were written in English, but it still made no sense to me.

[rose]

After my divorce, I was at a party in a nice house in metro Detroit (there's still a ton of money in the Detroit area) and I ended up talking in a hallway with a female SLE. She said she was a massage therapist and she lived in Ann Arbor and she'd really like to give me a massage some day. I told her I appreciated the offer but I really wasn't into massages. It took a while to convince her that it was the massages that did nothing for me, not her.

While we are discussing the blank spaces in my Erotic Attitudes, I also had an LSI GF who told me I wasn't very romantic, so I got a book called "How to Be Romantic." All the sentences in the book were written in English, but it still made no sense to me.

Wow, the last part is so relatable. I did read books on romantic behaviors too and it made no sense.

It was in MBTI, but there's some people who said Te was romantic in its own unromantic way. It was said that once a Te ego has choosen you, they chose you and no one else. You're not getting flowers, but no matter the problem, you won't be alone... unless you break the relationship somehow, lol.

[The Reality Denialist]

There is one other thing I want to discuss real quick. I was reading another erotic style post on here and the discuss subtypes and other aspects withing these styles. One that really caught my eye and that I relate to is that I am physical/emotional caregivers and spiritual victim. I need to know a guy is an aggressor towards me in a spiritual sense. They are confident that they know that they want me, need me, and will protect me in a spiritual aspect. Like, I get wary and pull away more if I am not feeling this underlying aggressors attitude of knowing they want me without a question. Like you enjoy and respond well to my caregiver attitude but, do you want me? I really appreciate moments when there is a lot of joking and fun but, when I feel like a guy is just with me cause I can do those stuff, and then can be direct in someway about his feelings towards me as a women, without a doubt, it puts me at ease and move towards him. Then we can go back to the more light heated stuff.

Lol, at spiritual aggression. I suppose I tend to read a lot into people in these aspects. It is a quite complex issue and I would not want to see this black and white (what some LII's seem to do, lol). It is a lot about how the person functions. Ni people seem to do the spiritual caregiving - it feels protective and unnecessary as I do not need to be served here but I can be calm and adjusted around it while I think on my own. I wonder if many spiritual victims have been used by different movements because the hegemony can be very sterile towards the individual.

[PinKDiGiT18]

The SEI is described as a pretty sexual and sensual type. Without going too much into detail or my..erm...preferences, I have always felt very comfortable in this area. Infantile seem to really respond well to my open and comfortable perspective on sex and sexuality. I also have a very sensitive nervous system. It is really hard for me to be touched so suddenly or just to have a strong impact without a forewarn. I really hated hugs for the longest time because of it. I need a lot of slow movement and long movements to feel comfortable and turned on. Lots of full body contact. The first time I made out with a guy, I was full on shaking and my teeth were clattering and I could not understand why. I liked him, but we did not have a lot of body contact and I didn't feel that emotional softness and closeness that I realized I didn't have but needed. When I made out with the next guy, an ILE, I did shake as well but, it wasn't as bad. There was more full body contact and touching and I felt more of those caring emotions and softness. Also, I tend to turn on much more quicker if there is a lot on slow and continuous movement. First time I got a back massage, after about 5-10 minutes I wanted to jump their bones lol.
I always apprentice it when someone is not afraid to ask for permission or asking how I am feeling. Can I do this? Can I do that? I know a lot of people don't like being asked to be 'kissed' for a first kiss, but that shit makes me melt and want them more. I feel so cared about because I can be so sensitive to touches and they want to be respectful. I also find it attractive when a guy is not afraid to ask me what I like and comfortable with me giving direction. I don't respond well to an Aggressors physical style because I don't like how 'confident' they are with touching me so quickly and assuredly because that often leads me to recoil and get annoyed. It's my job to be in change yo and control the direction in this case. I also love giving forehead kisses and cheek kisses.

This is why I'm so prone to falling for SEI guys. Si wonderland

[PinKDiGiT18]

As an "infantile", I want to be with someone who will be a nurturing, reliable presence that I can relax around. Someone who is capable of opening up my subdued sensuality and making me feel confident in this. There is nothing that enervates me more than having a partner whom I constantly feel as though I am having to keep up with or please through meeting demands. I need a partner who will match my pace and allow me to experience life alongside them.

Se ego guys also usually don't understand the ways I try to show affection, such as writing letters and giving gifts, even thinking of them as malicious somehow. Si egos tend to not only appreciate these things, but also encourage them.

Caregivers are a rejuvenating presence in my life. Both Delta and Alpha.

[Stray Cat]

Alright, Ima give my perspective

I have always been the natural 'mom' friend. This nature tends to heavily come out more with my Infantile friends to say the least. They just go about Si stuff awkwardly and I just want to help dammit. I naturally seem to monitor peoples physical needs both quietly and verbally. I watch and see how they respond to the environment and from there I get to work. You need more sleep, more veggies, have you exercised? when did you have caffeine last? you eating pizza again? no, I am making you a meal etc...I become a busy mother duck naturally and get a bit naggy/fussy in this area if people let me. Infantile's always let me lol.
Infantile are not afraid to take advantage of this. They soak that stuff up like a sponge. I always love the look in their eyes when you do these tasks for them. They look at you with such admiration and thankfulness that it makes me feel appreciated and loved. That, and Infantile's really hate when you feel that they have let them down. I find Infantiles are not afraid to go above and beyond and show you and impress you in such an innocence way. They want to please you and do a good job. It's like a little boy who is puffing up his chest and getting all protective of his crush. I always love the Ne- view that infantile give me. I am always surprised at their observations and seem to be touched more by them. They bring a lot of joy into my life and I love that they are not afraid to act like a little kid with me. Supposedly Infantiles can be very protective but I have sadly not felt this yet.
The only time I get critical of this aspect is when it is seriously taken advantage of. I am not a second parent to my partner and I hate feeling that way. I do naturally caregiver but I don't want to feel taken advantage of because of it. I've had this happen more then a few times and it has left a sour taste in my mouth and I do feel a bit critical in this aspect. However, I think when I get a healthier balance of this, my tune will change.

The SEI is described as a pretty sexual and sensual type. Without going too much into detail or my..erm...preferences, I have always felt very comfortable in this area. Infantile seem to really respond well to my open and comfortable perspective on sex and sexuality. I also have a very sensitive nervous system. It is really hard for me to be touched so suddenly or just to have a strong impact without a forewarn. I really hated hugs for the longest time because of it. I need a lot of slow movement and long movements to feel comfortable and turned on. Lots of full body contact. The first time I made out with a guy, I was full on shaking and my teeth were clattering and I could not understand why. I liked him, but we did not have a lot of body contact and I didn't feel that emotional softness and closeness that I realized I didn't have but needed. When I made out with the next guy, an ILE, I did shake as well but, it wasn't as bad. There was more full body contact and touching and I felt more of those caring emotions and softness. Also, I tend to turn on much more quicker if there is a lot on slow and continuous movement. First time I got a back massage, after about 5-10 minutes I wanted to jump their bones lol.
I always apprentice it when someone is not afraid to ask for permission or asking how I am feeling. Can I do this? Can I do that? I know a lot of people don't like being asked to be 'kissed' for a first kiss, but that shit makes me melt and want them more. I feel so cared about because I can be so sensitive to touches and they want to be respectful. I also find it attractive when a guy is not afraid to ask me what I like and comfortable with me giving direction. I don't respond well to an Aggressors physical style because I don't like how 'confident' they are with touching me so quickly and assuredly because that often leads me to recoil and get annoyed. It's my job to be in change yo and control the direction in this case. I also love giving forehead kisses and cheek kisses.

There is one other thing I want to discuss real quick. I was reading another erotic style post on here and the discuss subtypes and other aspects withing these styles. One that really caught my eye and that I relate to is that I am physical/emotional caregivers and spiritual victim. I need to know a guy is an aggressor towards me in a spiritual sense. They are confident that they know that they want me, need me, and will protect me in a spiritual aspect. Like, I get wary and pull away more if I am not feeling this underlying aggressors attitude of knowing they want me without a question. Like you enjoy and respond well to my caregiver attitude but, do you want me? I really appreciate moments when there is a lot of joking and fun but, when I feel like a guy is just with me cause I can do those stuff, and then can be direct in someway about his feelings towards me as a women, without a doubt, it puts me at ease and move towards him. Then we can go back to the more light heated stuff.

Appreciate the take, honestly

A reason I've avoided IEI irl is it's generally me doing all the practical shit. These particular IEIs repeat intuitive mistakes, don't learn & only strive for their personal dream or image. Their Ni is too linear, too much tunnel vision to support my Se at all.

I won't say Mirage is best. I'll say SEI help others, are selfless & practical. IEI are awesome. SEI do good cause it help others, not cause it tickles their feels

[Aquamarine]

Silly but I find comforting to know someone isn't into massage, it's like I didn't have the right to dislike that so far.
It's just awkward friction to me, makes my skin turn red and it's painful after a while.

I don't really like massages either. I mean I've never gotten a full one since every time someone has tried it either hurt or tickled, and I'd make them stop. Maybe they were just terrible at it

[Stray Cat]

Do most SLEs talk about themselves like this. jw cuz it sounds like an infantile selecting a character before the start of a video game

[Aquamarine]

Alright, Ima give my perspective
I have always been the natural 'mom' friend. This nature tends to heavily come out more with my Infantile friends to say the least. They just go about Si stuff awkwardly and I just want to help dammit. I naturally seem to monitor peoples physical needs both quietly and verbally. I watch and see how they respond to the environment and from there I get to work. You need more sleep, more veggies, have you exercised? when did you have caffeine last? you eating pizza again? no, I am making you a meal etc...I become a busy mother duck naturally and get a bit naggy/fussy in this area if people let me.

I tend to be more quiet about this. I'll notice a lot of those things but won't say anything. If I do say something it will more be in a way like "you shouldn't eat so late" or "why do you keep eating that if it makes you sick" or "you should go to bed earlier". More like suggestions. I won't volunteer myself to get up and cook a meal for them, I'll tell them they should do it. Now if somebody is actually sick or incapable of moving to do something themselves, I'll do it.
I also won't get fussy if they don't let me. I'll feel sad but they probably won't know that...like I knew someone who wouldn't let me help them when they were sick.

The SEI is described as a pretty sexual and sensual type. Without going too much into detail or my..erm...preferences, I have always felt very comfortable in this area. Infantile seem to really respond well to my open and comfortable perspective on sex and sexuality.

This is the one part of SEI I don't relate to. I'm definitely not confident nor fully comfortable when it comes to sex and sexuality.

It is really hard for me to be touched so suddenly or just to have a strong impact without a forewarn. I really hated hugs for the longest time because of it. I need a lot of slow movement and long movements to feel comfortable and turned on. Lots of full body contact. The first time I made out with a guy, I was full on shaking and my teeth were clattering and I could not understand why. I liked him, but we did not have a lot of body contact and I didn't feel that emotional softness and closeness that I realized I didn't have but needed. When I made out with the next guy, an ILE, I did shake as well but, it wasn't as bad. There was more full body contact and touching and I felt more of those caring emotions and softness. Also, I tend to turn on much more quicker if there is a lot on slow and continuous movement. First time I got a back massage, after about 5-10 minutes I wanted to jump their bones lol.
I always apprentice it when someone is not afraid to ask for permission or asking how I am feeling. Can I do this? Can I do that? I know a lot of people don't like being asked to be 'kissed' for a first kiss, but that shit makes me melt and want them more. I feel so cared about because I can be so sensitive to touches and they want to be respectful. I also find it attractive when a guy is not afraid to ask me what I like and comfortable with me giving direction. I don't respond well to an Aggressors physical style because I don't like how 'confident' they are with touching me so quickly and assuredly because that often leads me to recoil and get annoyed. It's my job to be in change yo and control the direction in this case. I also love giving forehead kisses and cheek kisses.

I also hate the sudden movements, more so from people I'm not used to touching me. I like slight aggressiveness in a guy just in a playful way. But otherwise, slow, gentle touches are definitely the way to go. Full body contact, yes. I also hate hugging most people for this reason. Hugging as you've mentioned is too intimate to do with some people. And whenever I hug someone that I'm really into I feel like sparks are going through my body, like tingling all over, lol.

I also love when they ask for permission. I never knew how much I liked it until I met someone who did.

Like I mentioned before, massages are kind of a no go for me. I always spend the first few minutes recoiling until I have to tell them to stop lol

Forehead kisses are awesome. I don't really give them since I struggle with showing physical affection to people

[MissDucki]

I don't really like massages either. I mean I've never gotten a full one since every time someone has tried it either hurt or tickled, and I'd make them stop. Maybe they were just terrible at it

I thought I would hate massages personally. I never got a "professional" massage, just from someone I was dating for a little while. I was a bit nervous and he offered so, I went for it. It was only once but, holy shit did I realize how much of a turn on it was for me. I don't think I would go to a professional, I really don't like random people touching me. But with a partner who likes them? Gimme I will be the biggest glutton for them from a partner lol

[Northstar]

Appreciate the take, honestly

A reason I've avoided IEI irl is it's generally me doing all the practical shit. These particular IEIs repeat intuitive mistakes, don't learn & only strive for their personal dream or image. Their Ni is too linear, too much tunnel vision to support my Se at all.

I won't say Mirage is best. I'll say SEI help others, are selfless & practical. IEI are awesome. SEI do good cause it help others, not cause it tickles their feels

Man, you just aren't SLE. That's why you don't like IEI and their Ni tunnel vision. You like the SEI and EII and they like you back because you unfailingly act polite, pleasant, encouraging and look foor good vibes and proper constructive conversation. It's all nice, but it isn't Beta.

[Stray Cat]

Man, you just aren't SLE. That's why you don't like IEI and their Ni tunnel vision. You like the SEI and EII and they like you back because you unfailingly act polite, pleasant, encouraging and look foor good vibes and proper constructive conversation. It's all nice, but it isn't Beta.

And you're foolish enough to read online posts and type someone

I do not talk this way in real life. Not only that but I understand functions. I am not limited or egocentric. To communicate one should not just use ego, otherwise they become stagnant.

I'll say it again, I do not behave this way in real life. You'll likely disagree. That's fine. I personally believe it idiotic people actually type others based on internet persona.

[rose]

I don't really like massages either. I mean I've never gotten a full one since every time someone has tried it either hurt or tickled, and I'd make them stop. Maybe they were just terrible at it

Maybe they were.
Sometimes, it's a weird excuse to touch someone and maybe even get a reward. That's not the greatest intent and gives poor result.

[MissDucki]

Man, you just aren't SLE. That's why you don't like IEI and their Ni tunnel vision. You like the SEI and EII and they like you back because you unfailingly act polite, pleasant, encouraging and look foor good vibes and proper constructive conversation. It's all nice, but it isn't Beta.

I don't think so really. Stray Cat reminds me too much of my SLE brother and SLE-Ti people I know. Ti SLE's are more chill and come across way more constructive and kind IMO. But the thing it, they don't intentionally come across like, they are just naturally shooting from the hip. An ILE will try more so to be like that if the situation calls for it.

[Northstar]

And you're foolish enough to read online posts and type someone

I do not talk this way in real life. Not only that but I understand functions. I am not limited or egocentric. To communicate one should not just use ego, otherwise they become stagnant.

I'll say it again, I do not behave this way in real life. You'll likely disagree. That's fine. I personally believe it idiotic people actually type others based on internet persona.

Why would you have an internet persona? What's stopping you acting like you act for real, on a personality forum of all places? Wouldn't it be more "constructive" to actually be yourself and not project a nice persona? It would be interesting if you posted a video of you being yourself to demonstrate the difference in communication.

[Stray Cat]

Why would you have an internet persona? What's stopping you acting like you act for real, on a personality forum of all places? Wouldn't it be more "constructive" to actually be yourself and not project a nice persona? It would be interesting if you posted a video of you being yourself to demonstrate the difference in communication.

Because on here, my goal is to help others.... Not "be myself" or be validated for "who I really am" In my opinion, "being myself" would be selfish if it didn't really amount to a greater good.

You're right. Posting a vid absolutely would show the difference. Unfortunately I don't have to prove shit to you. Doing that would just be ego. Momentary pleasure. That's it

Internet persona is just a phrase. It's not what one does but why they do it. If I can, I use each function as is necessary. Otherwise I won't say shit

[Northstar]

Because on here, my goal is to help others.... Not "be myself" or be validated for "who I really am" In my opinion, "being myself" would be selfish if it didn't really amount to a greater good.

You're right. Posting a vid absolutely would show the difference. Unfortunately I don't have to prove shit to you. Doing that would just be ego. Momentary pleasure. That's it

Internet persona is just a phrase. It's not what one does but why they do it. If I can, I use each function as is necessary. Otherwise I won't say shit

Allright, that's very charitable of you to create a kind persona to help others. I don't think being yourself requires the goal of self-validation, it's just not maintaining any specific persona. I think one can be helpful and constructive even without a "mr nice guy" persona.

Also, I don't think you have to "prove" anything, but you yourself said that you are very different on the forums than in real life. Would be interesting, in the name of socionics, to understand this difference.