Why are ISFps so comfortable being little piggies? My friend has been sleeping on the same drool-imbued pillow for 6 months now.
ISFp-Si and cleanliness
Why are ISFps so comfortable being little piggies? My friend has been sleeping on the same drool-imbued pillow for 6 months now.
what? loli don't think it's type related. i have an sei friend who washes often
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Its like that when Si is base function. The person decides himself in each case what is gross and what is not. Standard solutions are for those with weak Si.
This is one explanation. There could be other too
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
lmaoo Im not saying its type related more so than it is related to a deep understanding of Si. Like my friend takes showers regularly too, but its funny to see what they will ignore and what they wont. Almost all the ISFps I know have messy living quarters (before formal company arrives ofc). Tallmo seems like s/he gets it
I don’t know if this relates or not, but when my ISTp ex-wife was living alone, before we met, her apartment looked like a very tastefully decorated showroom.
When we got married and she moved into the house I had, she stopped vacuuming and filled the house with boxes of junk.
When she moved out prior to our divorce, she moved into an absolutely beautiful apartment with fantastic landscaping. Flowers and flowering trees everywhere, but her apartment looked like the inside of a moving van. Our son, who lives with her now, told me that she doesn’t have a bed, but rather sleeps on a mattress on some boxes.
Recently, her apartment complex was sold to new owners who cut down all the trees and replaced the flowers with grass because it costs less to maintain. The complex looks grim now, but when I dropped something off to her last week, I saw that she was turning her apartment back into a showroom.
Maybe Si-bases need a certain level of Si in their lives. If they get it from the outside, then they’ll be lazy and they won't work to add anything to it, but if that comfortable environment isn’t given to them, then they will do some work to create it.
ime SLIs tend to be tidy while SEIs do not. It depends a bit on wheter the SEI is a girl because girls are often thaught to be tidy, obedient etc. while boys may get a pass (depends on the parents).
Have a SEI brother and a SEI father and can confirm: they can be real piggies
lmaooooo they totally can!!! So nasty ewwww. Theyre so cute tho :3 Carlos Vives is the shit. I really cant stand their "Switzerland" attitude. Like, no bro, you arent unbiased and neutral stop kidding yourself. I feel like that just takes too much conscious thought..which of course opposes their irrationality. One time I slept on a chocolate bar, so most Alphas can be piggies I suppose. Hell, Ariana Grande (most probably an ESFj) bought one as a pet! @Kiwi is that your real cat or a meme? @AdamStrange what initially drew you to an ISTp?
It's a real cat in a memeOriginally Posted by cactagon
I met her at an amateur astronomy meeting, so it was common interests. I initially thought she was conventionally attractive, superbly so, but not my type. She looked too made up, too perfect. I tried to get her to join the club because I thought her beauty and intelligence would attract other males to join.
We later went on a field trip to Yerkes Observatory for an overnight observing session, and I got to know her a bit better. Over several months, we'd attend meetings and she offered to give me rides out to the club observatory for public open houses, because my driving was restricted at the time. We would talk at night under the stars while showing the public celestial objects.
I asked her if she'd consider having dinner with me maybe once a month, because I like to eat out but I don't like to eat alone. She thought it was a date. It wasn't a date, it was a way for me to eat great food with an intelligent dinner companion. On the first time out, I told her she had to try driving my Jaguar, because it was a lot of fun. I didn't realize she had only been driving for about six months. As she pulled out of the driveway, she hit the chimney on the house and took out every panel on the driver's side. But the car was still driveable, I still wanted dinner, what was done was done, and so she drove us to the restaurant where she almost killed us turning into the parking lot. Still, dinner was fine and I drove home.
She invited me to her apt for dinner, and she had Stiffel lamps and excellent taste in furnishings, and after a few months, I thought that she was smart and sensible and had Si when I didn't (this was before I knew about socionics) and so I thought, Maybe I could marry her. So I asked her, and she said No. But I persisted and she eventually agreed.
Did I mention that my father is SLI and her's is LSE? So we did what so many others do. We married someone who looks like our parents.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-17-2019 at 07:37 PM.
I'm like thissoo lazy. Except I tend to be tidy, but I can sit in the same spot all. day. It's been forever since I cleaned my pillow cover...Could it be an e9 thing?
SLIs can be pigs too. You just haven't seen it or smelled it lol. SLI males in their 20s and 30s often like letting their hair get crazy as fuck just for the hell of it.
I was clean in college. It was easy because I was usually by myself so there wasn't any interference with maintaining my space.
I think it's worth noting that people tend to not take as good care of themselves if they're stressed. That's a universal statement you can apply to pretty much all humans including Si doms.
My SEI GF takes 30 minute showers each day, makes sure the bed linnen is changed regularly, but despite my frequent remarks that kitchen cleaning pads are microbacterial biohazards, she will use one for several days.
SEIs attitudes towards cleanliness and hygiene indeed are just as random as all the other things they do in life. It is not just a matter of strong Si, but also a matter of weak Te;-)
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
It's not common for Si types, as relates to pleasant sensations and health.
Wrong types or for minority of cases nontypes factors may lead to different.
Anything "can". But the said contradicts to basic theory by which Si types have the least of that.
> You just haven't seen it or smelled it lol.
When you just changing the opinion about own type for several times you may mistake in types of other people too.
Maybe the theory is wrong. When that happens, change the theory, not the facts.
Pa does pillow thing. I do pillow thing in a different way, I don't drool, although I have. We ain't Si. It's EIE/LIE. Bro doesn't do this, not Si polr. Mom doesn't do this. Mom is Si or Se. She's wizardly in terms of health. Helps me clean crap, cause she knows what to clean somehow.
But yeah read the definition. You're saying that the definition is wrong, when the definition of Si polr is "A type with Si PoLR has little patience for sitting back and focusing on how they can physically better themselves in the moment, especially if they are involved in what they view as a very important matter. They would much rather try to act on their long-term priorities instead of their physical comfort, resulting in problems such as an inability to be aware or care about present realities, failure to realize the physical or mental strains they are placing on themselves, and being generally unable to relax and take the focus off of their long-term pursuits."
Cleaning is a short term gain. If you do it long term, it'll be a long term gain, but I believe it's only social, and possibly to lower risk of disease, which can be done more by cooking things well done. Trump reference. Lel. I'm very reluctant to clean, as I'd rather do something productive, like figure out how to make lists work in C# on visual studio on the computer, or try and mod game. Or learn how game works better so I can have greater enjoyment. Stuff that actually lasts.
TL;DR cleaning is probably an Si polr averse activity. As such, people with Si will care.
There's theoretically other interpretations, but I don't care to hash them out here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology
An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko
One can say that Si in some way relates to health and cleanliness, but that is only a loose connection. It doesn't necessarily mean that the person likes to clean or keep himself healthy, because those things require activities that go far beyond Si. This is the source of much confusion in the forum.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Poor Tallmo, it feels like he every other week he has to clarify what Si in the lead is and still people keep popping up with the same type of comments.
What happens when Si lead are steeped in their impressions? Not much attention is going to be paid to the task of cleaning their environment. Pillows will be drooled on, dirty dishes will accumulate, you won’t shower, cockroaches will be your best friends. Making simple associations about short-term and long-term won’t land you anywhere, since relaxation would bump into the repetitive task of keeping things clean at some point. Take the case of IEIs, who are much better at keeping things clean: they follow what needs cleaning much better since they can track when it was last washed (Ni), develop their cleaning schedule, have phobic tendencies so later in life they can fall into anti bacterial quasi ocds, and are not the ones suspected to suffer from anemia in the mbti community, ISFps are. INFps have more stamina. If they have to, they will clean more assiduously than SEIs. You learn this spending time with the types. Other factors are involved.
@Tallmo seems to have particularly clear and intelligent views on the functions. At least, I think so.
Actually his posts helped me understand a lot even before I joined the forum. Great job @Tallmo!
Small aside:
Ok that explains the smell of my pillows.I tried washing them but there is no way to get the smell out of there. Any advice?
I actually don't think either SEI or IEI is more clean or more messy. However, to not get buried in a mess, each type must use its role function. If it gets lost in its leading fct to the negligence of other fcts, it will probably end up becoming especially messy. I don't think the weak Te helps either as I think Te can really help with maintaining things and knowing which things are worth maintaining and in what ways, as well as when to keep or get rid of something. Te can also help track things a bit. So an organizational system via Ti is another thing that will be useful in being tidy.
That said, I do think Si valuers in general may be more likely to hoard. Si/Fe might hoard for sentimental reasons, assigning emotional meaning to all the stuff. Si/Te may hoard because it's very aware of the usefulness of objects and how they might later be of use to it. The underlying theme is potential and possibility.
Hoarding annoys me personally but at the same time- I don't like what I call the "sociopathic Republican clean house" look either, homes so sadistically clean it makes you think what dead bodies they are hiding or something idk. I guess in a way it does seem kind of strident Te to be that way I always kinda thought?
The SEIs I know look very earthly and grounded, where they aren't dirty but aren't that clean or polished either. IEIs (like me) seem to be more Arcane and polished-like, slightly speaking.
I was just thinking that I have become some sort of Si police of the forum.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Thanks. I don't know about the other functions, but I think I understand Si pretty well now. I was confused for a long time, I knew my type but I didn't really know how Si worked. Slowly Jung's description opened up for me. It's difficult, but at least it's accurate. Socionics Si descriptions are easy, but not so good at capturing the real thing. It gets irritating after awhile when Si discussions circle around food, health, fashion. Si is also tricky because it's hard to observe. You can look at the person, but you can't see all the things that go on inside. It's not like Ni that manifests itself, at least to some degree, in poetry and art.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
You should do a write up and just copy-past when the topic of Si comes up. It’ll save time and confusion.
Maybe you should think what Si+Ti in Alpha should look or sound like.
INFps are…more exacting and you can see it in how they clean and it also carries that to their image. Arcane is not how I would describe it because it’s more about slight dramatism and a polished look that is achieved with a visible gritty personality in the background. As they age they fall more for classic colors and adornments (gold for women). At least Fe subtype. More attached to how others perceive them.
ISFp is more cautious because grooming (like cleaning) is a form of energy-substraction and an ISFp keeps tabs, so much more bound to become suspicious of impositions. It’s easier for women of the type to evade gendered rules of grooming. In the back of their mind, ISFps have something like a Greek garment as blueprint for style.
And although both are IPs, I believe SEI-Si tends to be taller and have particularities like a longish neck. It doesn’t look as graceful as it sounds and has have its own set of particularities in presentation, for example in how clothes look. SEI actress demonstrates:
My personality is gritty but I don't really look gritty. It is more of an aesthetic thing. ISFp just seem more 'natural' to me or something. Less Glow-y.Arcane is not how I would describe it because it’s more about slight dramatism and a polished look that is achieved with a visible gritty personality in the background.
I have to question this hard, as the wiki says comfort is a priority. Is being clean comfortable? As I believe it makes sense that it would be.
I'll probably leave, come back, and then say the same thing again, hold my beer.
Last edited by Alomoes; 01-18-2021 at 05:08 PM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology
An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko
Comfort is subjective. It also says repetitive tasks bore SEIs. Cleaning is repetitive. Comfort can also mean not stressing yourself with menial physical work that seems endless. Why does Reinin say some SEIs look unfinished or maybe too natural? Maybe partly because of that. The same applies to cleaning.
IEE Ne types horde for the same reason, "it might be useful". I speak from exp, living with two IEEs recently. Its pathological how much useful junk they think they need to collect. It just sits in corners on top of other useful junk. Te + Ne.
To them its things they need. To me, its a disgusting pig sty. .... So I organize it because I just do. Its in my nature. But fuck..
Edit: ofc not all Ne types horde and not all SLI Te are hoarders. Blah blah blah. You catch my drift.
You are right. its about "potentials"
If they think junk is useful but don't do anything with it, for whom is it useful, then?(I'd bet they are EII-Ne. 1D Te + 1D Se. "Might be useful (later)" = Ni demonstrative)
I don't collect junk, but I produce junk. My place is filled with the odds and ends from multiple creative projects... like the time I tried to build a flux capacitor or the time I wanted to expose my college dean for having stakes in big companies and allocating grant money/university resources arbitrarily(it's of course common practice to have public/private partnerships, but once you start hearing stuff like "all rights and profits of this research will go to [company]", you don't work with them anymore but for them) ...... but yea I'm still messy
I've seen some "OCD clean" Ne-types and some "to cross my room, I'm swimming in dirty clothes and trash" ones...
Last edited by lkdhf qkb; 01-19-2021 at 11:21 AM.
I typed up my glorious post and then it got deleted. I had so many sources. I'm not fixing it. Basically what it was is that the wiki directly says LIE is basically dishelved and references cleaning as an Si thing.
Go read the wiki. Stop me when you find clean.
http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t..._by_A._Augusta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology
An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko
I know 3 people that horde and they are all different types. Thing they seem to have in common is E6.
I did a word search and found the word 'clean' for Si creatives. Your point?
the sei I know prefers to live in an apartment, because its easier to clean, less dirt. e_e she hates doing house work, would rather chill at the beach and soak the sun.
in terms of presentation tho she is clean, well put together clothes & style, but also comfy stuff, light and breezy. She cooks (and is good at it), but prefers if someone else does it for her lol.
<_< beta NFs can srsly learn something from alpha SFs.. they are so bad at Si.. cringe lvls of bad.
Last edited by SGF; 01-22-2021 at 09:33 AM.
My LIE brother sees me drinking water (I drink a lot of water) after a meal and says 'You shouldn't drink so much water right after you eat. It's not good for your digestion'
He says this every time we see each other (1-2x/yr), with seemingly no memory that it's not necessary to tell me this, I don't need help in this area...
The most recent time, with more understanding of dimensionality of functions, I say, 'I'm listening to my body.' That one finally shut him up
Actually, the best strategy for long term weight loss is to eat half your meal slowly, then drink a big glass of water slowly, then finish whatever you are still hungry for.My LIE brother sees me drinking water (I drink a lot of water) after a meal and says 'You shouldn't drink so much water right after you eat. It's not good for your digestion'
He says this every time we see each other (1-2x/yr), with seemingly no memory that it's not necessary to tell me this, I don't need help in this area...
The most recent time, with more understanding of dimensionality of functions, I say, 'I'm listening to my body.' That one finally shut him up
I'd say to tell your brother he doesn't know what he's talking about, but you obviously figured out a better solution.
maybe it is a matter of priorities: ever so slightly compromising digestion for some time in order to drop weight in a manner that does not shock the body?
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