ESTp or ESTj?

[Lord Panda]

Explain?

Everything you have said points to high Fe and you're not Ni PoLR. There's nothing in your posts that strike me as Te or Ti.

- I am very realistic

In Socionics, EIE is considered negativist in the positivist/negativist dichotomy. And no, not all NFs are optimistic... You may have a wrong impression of NFs.

- My IxFx family members have referred to me as "nasty" and "horrible"

SEI, ISFp, is the supervisor of EIE, they can often disapprove of EIEs. Contrary (EII, INFj) or illusionary (ESI, ISFj) aren't guaranteed frictionless... Especially contrary can be difficult. As a rule of thumb I don't get along with Fi users beyond a point. Mirror relationship (IEI, INFp) are easier.

- I have been labelled by people as "narcissistic", "histrionic" and "sociopathic"

This is just a label, and it does not define you. People who are actually narcissistic and sociopathic don't admit they are. As long as you don't have a diagnosis, these opinions are irrelevant. But it does give me the impression that you are able to wear masks easily, which is a trait associated with EIEs. It's a powerful trait, one to be admired.

Things that point to beta values:

- I'm pretty blunt and I tell it as it is
- My friends have said they admire how I do not let anyone walk all over me
- I hate incompetency
- I can be quite tactical and strategic- I enjoy chess for this reason
- I am very realistic (NF types sometimes interpret this as pessimism)
- I don't like people who can't take a joke
- I like being controversial
- At times I am guilty of "black and white thinking"
- I have always been popular at school - I'm the queen bee/ the Regina George.
- I am often the first to take action in a situation, I'm not one to sit around and moan if I have made no attempt to solve the issue
- I am a natural leader, I am able to organise people and be like "you do this, you do that"
- Ideally, I'd like to go into a career in journalism - preferably online
- I will break rules to get what I want

Betas embody the spirit of rebellion. They are system creaters. They give zero shits about existing social norms and have no problems breaking them to get what they want. They are catalysts for social change. EIE is the heart and soul of the Beta Quadrant, EIE is the absolute monarch. Decisive and merry is written all over you. You are one tough person indeed!

The biggest piece of evidence:

"One recurring dream/vision I have is of a new world, unlike this one. Being logical and ruthless is seen as the best traits, being emotional gets you left behind. Of course, I am the ruler of this world and everyone fears and obeys me. They all wish they could be me. I marry a guy, for money. He is like a piggy bank to me, he doesn't own anything, all of his things go straight to me."

No Gamma will ever say this. Gamma is too Democratic. This is aristocratic through and through. Your vision of a new world, where social laws are rewritten and people follow your ideals, this is Beta. If Beta has one message it is "Fuck the system!" EIE is logical and ruthless, no questions about that. They're not a "soft" type. Beta types, all of, them experience violent passionate emotions. Like the quotes in my siggy... That's beta love. EIEs can generate such feelings and the activator and dual enjoy them. You being the ruler, being a social leader, is not something gammas aim for... No other quadra has visions like that. Marrying a guy for his money - wealth and power are related to Se... You may be talking about your dual here... LSI?

Rest of the stuff isn't really type related.

[Lord Panda]

That was fast

I can easily sense another of my kind lol. EIE is one of the most misconstrued type on the Socion... Betas are not very liked in the socionics community either. So I can understand OP not relating to the quadra much.

[QueenTiger666]

Everything you have said points to high Fe and you're not Ni PoLR. There's nothing in your posts that strike me as Te or Ti.

- I am very realistic

In Socionics, EIE is considered negativist in the positivist/negativist dichotomy. And no, not all NFs are optimistic... You may have a wrong impression of NFs.

- My IxFx family members have referred to me as "nasty" and "horrible"

SEI, ISFp, is the supervisor of EIE, they can often disapprove of EIEs. Contrary (EII, INFj) or illusionary (ESI, ISFj) aren't guaranteed frictionless... Especially contrary can be difficult. As a rule of thumb I don't get along with Fi users beyond a point. Mirror relationship (IEI, INFp) are easier.

- I have been labelled by people as "narcissistic", "histrionic" and "sociopathic"

This is just a label, and it does not define you. People who are actually narcissistic and sociopathic don't admit they are. As long as you don't have a diagnosis, these opinions are irrelevant. But it does give me the impression that you are able to wear masks easily, which is a trait associated with EIEs. It's a powerful trait, one to be admired.

Things that point to beta values:

- I'm pretty blunt and I tell it as it is
- My friends have said they admire how I do not let anyone walk all over me
- I hate incompetency
- I can be quite tactical and strategic- I enjoy chess for this reason
- I am very realistic (NF types sometimes interpret this as pessimism)
- I don't like people who can't take a joke
- I like being controversial
- At times I am guilty of "black and white thinking"
- I have always been popular at school - I'm the queen bee/ the Regina George.
- I am often the first to take action in a situation, I'm not one to sit around and moan if I have made no attempt to solve the issue
- I am a natural leader, I am able to organise people and be like "you do this, you do that"
- Ideally, I'd like to go into a career in journalism - preferably online
- I will break rules to get what I want

Betas embody the spirit of rebellion. They are system creaters. They give zero shits about existing social norms and have no problems breaking them to get what they want. They are catalysts for social change. EIE is the heart and soul of the Beta Quadrant, EIE is the absolute monarch. Decisive and merry is written all over you. You are one tough person indeed!

The biggest piece of evidence:

"One recurring dream/vision I have is of a new world, unlike this one. Being logical and ruthless is seen as the best traits, being emotional gets you left behind. Of course, I am the ruler of this world and everyone fears and obeys me. They all wish they could be me. I marry a guy, for money. He is like a piggy bank to me, he doesn't own anything, all of his things go straight to me."

No Gamma will ever say this. Gamma is too Democratic. This is aristocratic through and through. Your vision of a new world, where social laws are rewritten and people follow your ideals, this is Beta. If Beta has one message it is "Fuck the system!" EIE is logical and ruthless, no questions about that. They're not a "soft" type. Beta types, all of, them experience violent passionate emotions. Like the quotes in my siggy... That's beta love. EIEs can generate such feelings and the activator and dual enjoy them. You being the ruler, being a social leader, is not something gammas aim for... No other quadra has visions like that. Marrying a guy for his money - wealth and power are related to Se... You may be talking about your dual here... LSI?

Rest of the stuff isn't really type related.

Hmm, I don't really care about "love" though. I struggle to make emotional connections with people, meaning I am more prone to cheat on them if I do get into a relationship with one. And also, I've seen more ENTJs than ENFJs aiming for stuff like that. One of the Es in EIE is ethical, I definitely do not care for "ethics".
My next question from here would be, can someone be a different type in the MBTI system and the Socionics system?

[Lord Panda]

Hmm, I don't really care about "love" though. I struggle to make emotional connections with people, meaning I am more prone to cheat on them if I do get into a relationship with one. And also, I've seen more ENTJs than ENFJs aiming for stuff like that. One of the Es in EIE is ethical, I definitely do not care for "ethics".
My next question from here would be, can someone be a different type in the MBTI system and the Socionics system?

Lol so you say that because you think it would make you look like an LIE? Sorry I can't see you as not EIE now that I have seen you as such. You can type as whatever type, and I may very well be wrong, I admit that. I would say that logical types have no problems feeling connected to people and they do care about ethics. Just ask any logical type on the forum and they will tell you that.

As for cheating on people, weak PoLR Si results in an uncontrollable form of hedonism... I would say both xIEs are pretty hedonistic. In case of EIE, LSI is able to impose rules on the EIE and sort of keep them in check. In case of LIE, ESI is able to enforce morality on the LIE. Pick your poison, uh I mean, dual Lmao.

I don't know about MBTI, sorry.

[QueenTiger666]

Lol so you say that because you think it would make you look like an LIE? Sorry I can't see you as not EIE now that I have seen you as such. You can type as whatever type, and I may very well be wrong, I admit that. I would say that logical types have no problems feeling connected to people and they do care about ethics. Just ask any logical type on the forum and they will tell you that.

As for cheating on people, weak PoLR Si results in an uncontrollable form of hedonism... I would say both xIEs are pretty hedonistic. In case of EIE, LSI is able to impose rules on the EIE and sort of keep them in check. In case of LIE, ESI is able to enforce morality on the LIE. Pick your poison, uh I mean, dual Lmao.

I don't know about MBTI, sorry.

Lol no, I'm simply noticing a trend. But I wouldn't say any "LSI" I have met has been able to impose rules on me. With me, if you think your rules are being imposed on me and it's working, chances are you're being played.

[Lord Panda]

Lol no, I'm simply noticing a trend. But I wouldn't say any "LSI" I have met has been able to impose rules on me. With me, if you think your rules are being imposed on me and it's working, chances are you're being played.

Lol you are a good one. I like the attitude. I am a very scattered person, and I realize this the older I get. I am like a 14 year old with my dad's credit card. I can't do much on my own, and I like to test people's boundaries. If I can get away with something, I absolutely will. The thing with duality is, it works in stages. So people in general are not impressed by their duals when they first meet them. Duality isn't a Hollywood romance kind of relationship, it's one of practicality. LSI on the outside can be kind of bland and boring. Same goes for ESI. But once you get to know them, you see how much force of will they have. EIEs are good at flirting with danger... Knowing just how far people can be pushed, and LSI never breaks. I don't really understand well the dynamic between LIE and ESI, since they deal with functions I don't value.

I know you think it's unlikely, but maybe do consider EIE, since I feel so connected to you and I am fairly confident in my type. I'm not trying to force my opinion on you or something... I'm still learning this myself.

Edit: yeah I forgot to mention, do consider SLE as well. Beta extrovert is what I'm sure of. What I'm feeling could be activator love <3

[Ryan]

I think SLE is more likely. You certainly come off as one. You overestimate yourself and your abilities a lot.

SLEs seems to like giving short replies and one liners. They also like to pick what interests them in a post and focus on it. This may not be type related. It's just something I noticed.

[QueenTiger666]

Lol you are a good one. I like the attitude. I am a very scattered person, and I realize this the older I get. I am like a 14 year old with my dad's credit card. I can't do much on my own, and I like to test people's boundaries. If I can get away with something, I absolutely will. The thing with duality is, it works in stages. So people in general are not impressed by their duals when they first meet them. Duality isn't a Hollywood romance kind of relationship, it's one of practicality. LSI on the outside can be kind of bland and boring. Same goes for ESI. But once you get to know them, you see how much force of will they have. EIEs are good at flirting with danger... Knowing just how far people can be pushed, and LSI never breaks. I don't really understand well the dynamic between LIE and ESI, since they deal with functions I don't value.

I know you think it's unlikely, but maybe do consider EIE, since I feel so connected to you and I am fairly confident in my type. I'm not trying to force my opinion on you or something... I'm still learning this myself.

I mean I'll definitely consider it, and yeah I'm kinda new to socionics haha. I've been into MBTI a good while, so I keep stumbling onto socionics but I have never really delved that deep into this system like I am trying to now. I do know just how much of a "force" ESIs can be though - I'm pretty sure my sister is one. I've never gotten along with her, she's the clear favourite aka the golden child. She's 10 years older than me but much more childish than I am. She can be emotionally manipulative towards my mam, never worked on me though as I always see through bs like that easily. So I definitely learned at an early age to be ruthless and fend for myself. She may be the favourite child, but I'm a lot more socially capable and extraverted than she is so I'll probably be better off in the real world. She settles with lower paying jobs - just like my parents do. I would never settle for the worst, I always want to climb the ladder.

I must say, I get along better with LSI than ESI.

You got any opinion on what you think my subtype is?

[QueenTiger666]

I think SLE is more likely. You certainly come off as one. You overestimate yourself and your abilities a lot.

SLEs seems to like giving short replies and one liners. They also like to pick what interests them in a post and focus on it. This may not be type related. It's just something I noticed.

I mean it's not that I like giving short replies, it's just that when I give longer ones half of it seems to get ignored so I am a lot more to the point now. Still, in essays I ramble. You have given consistently short answers, are you an SLE?

I wouldn't say I overestimate myself, I'm just self confident. I do sometimes overestimate others, like "I'd have the capability to really manipulate them right now, so they must have the same capacity to do so to me"

[Ryan]

You have given consistently short answers, are you an SLE?

No. But I've realized recently that I don't actually know how people perceive me. And when I ask it seems contradictory to how I perceive myself at times.

[Varlawend]

I'd be inclined to agree with narrowing down to mainly SLE and SEE. Certainly SLE over LSE.

SEE's, although ethical, can be quite tough talking and take charge personalities, especially those of a more Dominant variety. It does seem to go without saying that your subtype is Dominant. It might be worth exploring.

SLE does seem like it fits though, and is probably the best fit. Generally, SLE's have more antisocial tendencies than SEE's. I also imagine that they'd be more inclined to something like chess than SEE; they think more logically for obvious reasons (they are a logical type). The SLE descriptions sounds a lot like what you've described of yourself, probably more than SEE does.

*replace 'he' as appropriate in the following description of course, no idea why people wrote that as if all SLE's are male

SLE is a resolute person who can provide volitional pressure if the situation requires this. He is determined to win at any cost. The more obstacles he encounters along the way, the more collected and energetic his advance becomes. Doubt and hesitation are foreign to him; he feels convinced of his right. Categorical in his assessments, reserves the last word. He is primarily interested in the result, not the process of achieving it. Adept at calculating various plans of action in his mind, choosing the most logical one for the given situation. Knows how to find the most compromised point of his opposition. If a direct attack does not bring success, can try to bypass from the sides or from the back, work through third parties. Feels lost in unusual, illogical situations.

Able to unite people around him to achieve a specific goal. Clearly delineates everyone’s position on the team. Confidently coordinates joint actions. Presents an ultimatum: "If you have chosen me, now you have to listen to me." Explains everything simply and clearly, citing illustrative examples. Tries to control the key points only without wasting efforts on details. Grasps the situation as a whole. Flexibly readjusts if the activity is no longer promising. For each task he devotes a certain period of time after which he makes the final decision: to continue on or to stop. Captures well the logic of actions of other people; thus the only ones who can win with him are those who are constantly changing it. Tests people in action, throwing those who lack training into the midst of things.

SLE experiences difficulty establishing personal relations in informal situations. Often he is too intolerant and uncompromising, predisposed to dictate his own way in his relations. Intolerant when someone else places demands of personal commitment from him. Constructs a system of ethical values for himself that often does not correspond to what is generally accepted. Frequently disbelieves that there exist pure, platonic relations. Sometimes declares that he is for "fairness", for equal treatment of everyone; nevertheless, has favorites and scapegoats. Treats well those who respect his friends and oppose his enemies. Does not let go of those to whom he has grown attached; attempts in any way to make them enter a dependent relationship with him, to "tame" or "placate" them.

Receives well calm words, positive forecasts, faith in the future. Pessimism and superstitions anger him. He is soothed and relaxed by a light, hassle-free communication style and optimistic outlook. Periodically turns to thoughtful introspection. Withdraws into himself, reflecting on future prospects and emerging opportunities. Time softens his harsh temper. After suffering a series of inexplicable losses and defeats, he begins to wonder about fate, may turn to religion, occupy himself with charity work. He is very enterprising and venturous. Enjoys competition, boisterous company, where he can relax and emotionally recharge. Likes to be inspired and uplifted. His emotional state heavily depends on the emotional state of others around him. He likes to listen to music. It puts him in the right disposition, creates balance in his soul. Grows offended if he is called an uncaring person.

Forces himself to achieve that which for others may seem almost impossible. Boldly responds to a challenge when his abilities are questioned. Considers himself to be intelligent. Handles well problems that test for ingenuity. In public, he gladly demonstrates his erudition and knowledge of the fundamentals. Not averse to act in role of a patron. If he is taken to the edge, he is able to manifest merciless and relentless fury. At such moments he cannot stop himself in anger. Does not give more than one chance.

Comfort, good material conditions for life are his secret desire. He seeks to provide for himself and his loved ones. Without this feels unfulfilled, a failure. Does not respect people who are frail, lacking in physical exercise and training. Proud of his own good physical constitution and feels upset if he does not possess one. Due to excess drive and energy, he is prone to quickly dissipate his natural reserves of health. External appearance tends to be either inconspicuous or underscoring his high status. Has poorly developed sense of harmony and aesthetic taste. Highly susceptible to physical drives and tends to meet his physical needs before soulful ones.

A good manager, skillfully manages his matters. Tries to derive benefit out of any businesses venture. Not inclined to save money, especially small amounts. Pays attention only to substantial sums of money. Often teaches himself a few handy skills. When faced with excessive work load will try to hire other people to do the work for him. Likes to manage complex technology in extreme and trying situations.

[FDG]

so you're 17, want to be an online journalist, and think you're the queen of the world because people at your school avoid you out of intimidation?

[QueenTiger666]

so you're 17, want to be an online journalist, and think you're the queen of the world because people at your school avoid you out of intimidation?

Lol people don't avoid me, don't take things so literally.

[FDG]

Lol people don't avoid me, don't take things so literally.

well if that's what you write...

[QueenTiger666]

well if that's what you write...

Maybe you're more of a sensing type

[Ryan]

buuuuuuuurn

[FDG]

Maybe you're more of a sensing type

ftr that's kind of a compliment in this socionics community.

[Ryan]

ftr that's kind of a compliment in this socionics community.

true

[QueenTiger666]

ftr that's kind of a compliment in this socionics community.

Who said it was meant as an insult?

[Sol]

take into account that without normal typing material, especially when people know about you a little more than nothing, - the messages above is not a typing, but a game in it

[Exodus]

I can easily sense another of my kind lol. EIE is one of the most misconstrued type on the Socion... Betas are not very liked in the socionics community either. So I can understand OP not relating to the quadra much.

You apparently only decided you were EIE in the last few days or weeks so I'm not sure how you can be so confident about someone else...

[sbbds]

It’s supposed to be harder to type a person before they hit 20 just FYI. According to SSS the ego doesn’t start developing until then. https://www.personalitycafe.com/soci...ing.html?amp=1

I guess you can still try. I mean, you could be SLE. I think an SEE or even an LSE would probably try a bit harder to appear charming or personable, but it could just be the setting.

I would look at the kind of person you tend to be consistently fascinated by (i.e this type would be your dual).

[sbbds]

Maybe you're more of a sensing type

Who said it was meant as an insult?

Lol this exchange comes across as SLEish to me. I think it’s safe enough to say you are one IMO, just look at ITR with other types to do a final check.

[QueenTiger666]

Lol this exchange comes across as SLEish to me. I think it’s safe enough to say you are one IMO, just look at ITR with other types to do a final check.

Is it safe to say anyone is anything? I mean none of this is 100% proven. I personally do think LIE is a better bet, the relationships I've looked at with LIE do fit more with the ones I have irl. So yeah I'm gonna go with that I think

[sbbds]

Is it safe to say anyone is anything? I mean none of this is 100% proven. I personally do think LIE is a better bet, the relationships I've looked at with LIE do fit more with the ones I have irl. So yeah I'm gonna go with that I think

What are you asking for and here for then if you aren’t looking for a definite answer?

If LIE is what you think then alright, fair enough.

[sbbds]

@queentiger I will say that based on your description of yourself and your interactions here with others in this thread so far, it seems like you have a far better handle on Se than what would be reasonable for an xIE to have. I also do not get the impression of Si polr from you, other than you saying you dislike sports, but that’s not indicative of much. And I see you flexibly using logic to reason with others here, while saying you have an interest in spiritual or otherworldly things. That’s obviously Ti creative and Ni seeking, not Ni creative.

Additionally, SLE have very strong Te demonstrative (the same type as LIEs’ too according to Model B) giving them in theory excellent business qualities and the ability to get things done. It is as strong as Se is in dimensionality. I recognize these qualities in myself as well.

[sbbds]

Plus, I can look into your eyes in your avatar and see those familiar little crumbs of sensitivity in there.

[sbbds]

You apparently only decided you were EIE in the last few days or weeks so I'm not sure how you can be so confident about someone else...

She’s undergone trauma and is still young so it’s harder to type oneself in these cases.

[Myst]

@queentiger E8 > E3

Maybe LIE

[QueenTiger666]

@queentiger E8 > E3

Maybe LIE

other way around, also congrats on 69th post

[Myst]

other way around, also congrats on 69th post

lol thanks, btw why I think you are Te over Se:

You actually care to voice the issue of incompetency of people. That doesn't go well with Te PoLR / IEIs lol so they can barely be your duals. That's too conscious Te in ego, willing to verbalise Te stuff to that point.

Your approach about strategy and chess seemed more Ni+Te than Se+Ti.

Your overall emphasising talk about your Se in a way that's kind of mixed with Ni imaginations (this is the impression I get, sorry this is a bit vague but I've seen this from gamma NTs before).

You're a bit too rough to be Fe HA, I don't sense Fe valuing in that for you, and Logic lead makes sense too for this. (Rough: more Logical toughness than Se force)

[Myst]

@queentiger oh also whatever type you may be, you are a sociopath/psychopath. That's a type too lol just in another "typology"...

[sbbds]

Yeah the point about chess is true... I could never see myself interested in that, or other SLEs. I also would consider verbalizing a lot of the things you do to be overly antisocial and sperg-like. Perhaps LIE after all.

If you’re a sociopath it’ll be harder to dualize lol. The good news is if you’re under 20 your mind is still malleable enough to mitigate development in that direction.

[QueenTiger666]

@Myst @sbbds
Lol well idk, I haven't been officially diagnosed as a psychopath or sociopath.
However, here is something to consider and why I may be an ENFj. I come off so psychotic on the internet because it's built up from my desire to be popular irl. This desire leads me to pick and choose my battles carefully (I come off as two faced quite often because of this) thus anger and frustration building and building which comes out online. Either that, or an overly emotional display and deep cutting insults towards family members (I know how to really hit where it hurts, unhealthy Fe?). It's interesting because 2 of the fictional characters I relate most to I have had debates over whether they are Fe or Te (these are Morgana Pendragon from BBCs Merlin and Regina Mills from OUAT). I would also agree that Se hidden agenda probably fits better than Se dominant now that I think about it.

[QueenTiger666]

@Myst @sbbds
Also, other board games I enjoy: RISK, Monopoly, Scrabble
Video games I enjoy: Overwatch, Tetris, Smash Bros

[sbbds]

I come off so psychotic on the internet because it's built up from my desire to be popular irl.

This is like the one sentence needed to understand all gamma NTs My vote is still for LIE.

If you have people you consider close friends and you’re also like a Regina George then you’re probably doing just fine lol

[QueenTiger666]

This is like the one sentence needed to understand all gamma NTs My vote is still for LIE.

If you have people you consider close friends and you’re also like a Regina George then you’re probably doing just fine lol

Isn't it funny how we've basically done a 180? I mean after reading about the gamma quadra I don't see how that is possible anymore. You heard of peacocking?

[sbbds]

Isn't it funny how we've basically done a 180? I mean after reading about the gamma quadra I don't see how that is possible anymore. You heard of peacocking?

I’ve heard of peacocking. Idk what you mean about how it (assuming you mean Se ego or beta quadra qualities as an LIE) isn’t possible.

Gamma NTs have Alpha SF types’ egos as their superego, which deals with social expectations and roles. And according to SSS (the link I posted above), this stage of development is in full force in our teens.

More canonically, LIEs have Fe role too.

[QueenTiger666]

I’ve heard of peacocking. Idk what you mean about how it isn’t possible.

Gamma NTs have Alpha SF types’ egos as their superego, which deals with social expectations and roles. And according to SSS (the link I posted above), this stage of development is in full force in our teens.

More canonically, LIEs have Fe role too.

Like literally I've ruled out every quadra apart from beta. I'm definitely an extravert so EIE or SLE. Probably EIE tbh. Violent emotional outbursts, backstabbing, negativist over positivist. Does that sound LIE to you?

[sbbds]

Like literally I've ruled out every quadra apart from beta. I'm definitely an extravert so EIE or SLE. Probably EIE tbh. Violent emotional outbursts, backstabbing, negativist over positivist. Does that sound LIE to you?

Yes lol. Why not.

You seem to value Te highly and have many logician qualities. Backstabbing can be gamma just as well as beta. LIEs and EIEs are look-a-likes, LIE have Fe role again as I said.