When I have to cry, I do not know how to shut it off no matter how much I may desire to postpone the tears - especially if it seems socially inconvenient. It's hard hiding it sometimes.Originally Posted by Beautiful sky
When I have to cry, I do not know how to shut it off no matter how much I may desire to postpone the tears - especially if it seems socially inconvenient. It's hard hiding it sometimes.
~* astralsilky
Each essence is a separate glass,
Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
A thousand colors, but the Light is One.
Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet
Post types & fully individuated before 2012 ...
I like to cry in the shower personally or in the rain. Water being related to emotion, symbolically, can be used to help release built up emotion.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I can't cry in the rain, I used to do it in the shower.
Because I'm...
“I want the following word: splendor, splendor is fruit in all its succulence, fruit without sadness. I want vast distances. My savage intuition of myself.”
― Clarice Lispector
I wouldn't mind if it rained every day. Not for crying in, just because it is by far my favorite weather. Too bad some of the wettest countries have too many insects.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Stoic is a great word to describe EIIs.Yes that’s him exactly.I usually just hug him and be still and let him cry it out (same with my SEI friend who can be the same at work). I never cry in front of anyone. I did when I was pregnant once and it kinda choked my husband to see me so vulnerable when he says I try hard to be stoic.
~* astralsilky
Each essence is a separate glass,
Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
A thousand colors, but the Light is One.
Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet
Post types & fully individuated before 2012 ...
I am the opposite. lol I will listen to the saddest music to intensify the feelings before releasing them. I use music for many things besides that though. Music is life giving energy to me.
I can also hold back tears in front of people so I can tough it through a situation. I am not that weepy tbh. My ESE sister is the weepiest in my family. I have grown a thicker skin through life lessons.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
As your assertions were clearly against the core of the types theory - then you need to read it again. And then to type people correctly to see how the typology works on practice and such to understand it. As your current typology understanding is below the acceptable.
You opposed that base Ni types are not dreamy compared to other types - and that is nonsense. As N is about imagination and Ni is about imagination turned inside of the human - on its inner world outside of the reality near him. This makes base Ni types dreamy in the look, as they are such.
You opposed to the description of general difference between Fi and Fe types based on your example, - that you do not laugh much. I've described the principle difference Fe - Fi which follows from the core theory and also what I had in watching people of different types. The other is variations in individual and in perceptions.
In these both cases you rejected the core theory. This should lead you to mistypings.
Some before you opposed without reasonable contrarguments to my assertions that: 1) Jung's types are practically very important in relations, 2) the most common reason of having bad opinion about Socionics are mistypings, what are seen from low average matches <20% which evidently should lead to unexpected by the theory results.
As you opposed to often typing mistakes and core theory, you may to have the tendency to rationalize mistakes by ignoring the theory. Think about possible typing mistakes you may hide such from yourself. To refresh your theory knowledge would help in this process. It's better to do not use types, than to use them wrongly.
I didn't reject the core theory so you are very wrong there.
I don't type these people you do. I have no idea if most of them are EII or not. I just think you try to type based on "intuitive impressions" when that is clearly your weakest areas, according to "core theory" but it doesn't stop you from trying.
I don't think you translated my post correctly either from your response.
Edit: We don't need to argue over semantics but many of your youtube IEIs have not looked "dreamy" at all in the old IEI thread and I haven't seen your recent additions. I do not mind being told I look dreamy by some but when it sounds devaluing then I kind of do.9. The Introverted Intuitive Type
The peculiar nature of introverted intuition, when given the priority, also produces a peculiar type of man, viz. the mystical dreamer and seer on the one hand, or the fantastical crank and artist on the other. The latter might be regarded as the normal case, since there is a general tendency of this type to confine himself to the perceptive character of intuition. As a rule, the intuitive stops at perception; perception is his principal problem, and -- in the case of a productive artist-the shaping of perception. But the crank contents himself with the intuition by which he himself is shaped and determined. Intensification of intuition naturally often results in an extraordinary aloofness of the individual from tangible reality; he may even become a complete enigma to his own immediate circle. [p. 509]
If an artist, he reveals extraordinary, remote things in his art, which in iridescent profusion embrace both the significant and the banal, the lovely and the grotesque, the whimsical and the sublime. If not an artist, he is frequently an unappreciated genius, a great man 'gone wrong', a sort of wise simpleton, a figure for 'psychological' novels.
Although it is not altogether in the line of the introverted intuitive type to make of perception a moral problem, since a certain reinforcement of the rational functions is required for this, yet even a relatively slight differentiation of judgment would suffice to transfer intuitive perception from the purely æsthetic into the moral sphere. A variety of this type is thus produced which differs essentially from its æsthetic form, although none the less characteristic of the introverted intuitive. The moral problem comes into being when the intuitive tries to relate himself to his vision, when he is no longer satisfied with mere perception and its æsthetic shaping and estimation, but confronts the question: What does this mean for me and for the world? What emerges from this vision in the way of a duty or task, either for me or for the world? The pure intuitive who represses judgment or possesses it only under the spell of perception never meets this question fundamentally, since his only problem is the How of perception. He, therefore, finds the moral problem unintelligible, even absurd, and as far as possible forbids his thoughts to dwell upon the disconcerting vision. It is different with the morally orientated intuitive. He concerns himself with the meaning of his vision; he troubles less about its further æsthetic possibilities than about the possible moral effects which emerge from its intrinsic significance. His judgment allows him to discern, though often only darkly, that he, as a man and as a totality, is in some way inter-related with his vision, that [p. 510] it is something which cannot just be perceived but which also would fain become the life of the subject. Through this realization he feels bound to transform his vision into his own life. But, since he tends to rely exclusively upon his vision, his moral effort becomes one-sided; he makes himself and his life symbolic, adapted, it is true, to the inner and eternal meaning of events, but unadapted to the actual present-day reality. Therewith he also deprives himself of any influence upon it, because he remains unintelligible. His language is not that which is commonly spoken -- it becomes too subjective. His argument lacks convincing reason. He can only confess or pronounce. His is the 'voice of one crying in the wilderness'.
The introverted intuitive's chief repression falls upon the sensation of the object. His unconscious is characterized by this fact. For we find in his unconscious a compensatory extraverted sensation function of an archaic character. The unconscious personality may, therefore, best be described as an extraverted sensation-type of a rather low and primitive order. Impulsiveness and unrestraint are the characters of this sensation, combined with an extraordinary dependence upon the sense impression. This latter quality is a compensation to the thin upper air of the conscious attitude, giving it a certain weight, so that complete 'sublimation' is prevented. But if, through a forced exaggeration of the conscious attitude, a complete subordination to the inner perception should develop, the unconscious becomes an opposition, giving rise to compulsive sensations whose excessive dependence upon the object is in frank conflict with the conscious attitude. The form of neurosis is a compulsion-neurosis, exhibiting symptoms that are partly hypochondriacal manifestations, partly hypersensibility of the sense organs and partly compulsive ties to definite persons or other objects. [p. 511]
http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm
Last edited by Aylen; 01-23-2019 at 01:45 AM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
@Aylen
lesser emotions -> lesse mistakes. partly similar situation like with guessings
it's common to disagree of how to apply the same theory. or to use additional bs alike Reinin's to argument other point
but above you expressed the disagreement with basics of the theory. by this approach the chance of typing mistakes is significantly higher than in average
they may impact the behavior, but not a type itself. the reason you need normal typing data to be sure, mostly - IRL or video interview
generally, even with the lack of normal data it may be clearly seen (having the needed typing skills) when some types mb rejected due to many contradictions to them. alike in your case - against you being EII there is lot of factors
the main problem of harder cases - there is no a single clear type, but several of them are seen as possible. this is solved by geting of more data, than average. there are no principle problem, except typing skills of a typer and the lack of needed data
this relates to all people, including to ones having the factors you've listed
resume for all harder than average cases:
additional data + good typing skills
your videointerview is important to be sure between some types. but it's clear that you do not fit to EII due to many factors
and you seems tried my IR test and saw it yourself - higher friendly sympathy to beta-gamma men. and to P types
@Aylen has 10D Ni
/End thread
"...And that she left behind small traces of her time on Earth, visible only to those who know where to look."
Thank you for saying that...
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Please do share with us the meaning of the 10 dimensions.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
https://phys.org/news/2014-12-universe-dimensions.html
In the ninth dimension, we can compare all the possible universe histories, starting with all the different possible laws of physics and initial conditions. In the tenth and final dimension, we arrive at the point in which everything possible and imaginable is covered. Beyond this, nothing can be imagined by us lowly mortals, which makes it the natural limitation of what we can conceive in terms of dimensions.
The existence of these additional six dimensions which we cannot perceive is necessary for String Theory in order for there to be consistency in nature. The fact that we can perceive only four dimensions of space can be explained by one of two mechanisms: either the extra dimensions are compactified on a very small scale, or else our world may live on a 3-dimensional submanifold corresponding to a brane, on which all known particles besides gravity would be restricted (aka. brane theory).
or
The Ten Dimensions, Simplified
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Ok, IEI's have actualised string theory. Although string theory is hypothetical construction or at least so we think.Just as Jung wrote: Ni does not share it's secrects.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Maritsa, you never stop amazing me. All the young mothers I know would kill to have a minute to themselves, but you, despite the baby, seem to have lots of time left to spend on this forum. Now it's clear to us why: thanks to your LSE husband, you work at amazing levels of efficiency and effectiveness.
Leaves me one question: why is this thread titled "IEI and EII"?
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
I don’t think that IEI are like me
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Thanks for clearing that up.
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
man this list is garbageEII vs IEI
moralist vs believer
passive aggressive vs defensive
detached vs engaged
not a true team player vs team player
self-conscious vs image-conscious
opinionated vs flexible
formal vs casual
conviction vs go with the flow
breadth vs narrow focus
planned vs seat of the pants
closer vs opener
arranged vs cluttered
wanting meaning vs wanting closure...................
Is that Enneagram 4 emotional volatility? Or perhaps just emotional volatility? I knew an LII 5w4 girl with very bad social skills that used to be like that - knew her from the forums INTPforum, she struggled between choosing whether she was EII IEI or LII (however she was informationally LII).
Anyway I always ignore and suppress my emotions until they become untenable and I then flip with rage. I'm a 5w6 sx (but the sx is at odds with my fiveness so I thought I was SP-SX by mistake)
My IEI mom would be "EII" given that she did exactly what you say you do there. Only temperamental differences would be most distinguishable. IPs aren't lazy contrary to perception but we are slow with volatile but effective approach to doing things.
**
The temperamental differences between you and my mom would be this:
She'd only wake up/work like a workaholic, when she has urgency - either internal (wants desires goals) or external (threats, important obligations). Without urgency all actions are based on how she feels, how stimulated by the environment she is or not. The house was always maintained and my baby bother was taken care of. As for bargains, she had her strategy which she stuck to, having cultivated it for years. Anyway my folks had autonomous cooperation - they did things individually and everything would come full circle.
Last edited by Soupman; 03-28-2019 at 03:03 PM.
So long as you're using the gist of Jung's definitions....it'll be distinguishable.
passivelly aggresivelly judgemental. This posts sums up all of delta as each of the four are like this.
I suspect some of her writings are enneagram and instinct influenced based on people she interacted with and typed herself. She is a harsh judge of character in general. She actually takes it easy on EII which is funny given her other profiles. Her EII descriptions sound more like E9s and her IEI descriptions sound more like E4s.
Keep telling yourself that... Your typing lists contains several errors considering you have some of the same people typed into different quadras and/or different enneagram types or instincts because you failed to catch the name change or that they were using a completely new profile. You are closed off to hearing this no matter who tells you. You live in your own fantasy world where you apparently have enough time to index 2500+ videos and images of "types", including fictional ones. Fiction rules you. You are not much of an observer. For all you know I am also on your list more than once, you wouldn't notice it though not in a million years.
"Despite all the psychology we think we possess today, the psyche is still infinitely more obscure to us than the visible surface of the body. The psyche is still a foreign, almost unexplored country of which we have only indirect knowledge; it is mediated by conscious functions that are subject to almost endless possibilities of deception." --Jung
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
The passive aggressiveness is sheer nonsense, but the judgmental part is quite true. I feel obsolutely no need to apologize for that, in fact, I'm quite proud of it.
Now go fuck yourself.
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
Idk but some IEIs seem to be into law of attraction, yoga, horoscopes zodiac signs, some into charms and other things I find really weird. I'm always thinking there must be something about them that makes them into that stuff and something about me that makes me not into that stuff.
I also think EII probably dress way more toned down them IEI. And some of the things Ni-Ti is into is just really weird specific and sometimes really technical things.
One I knew was really into skulls, but specifically not baby skulls. And Vespidae, she had to refer to wasps as vespidae.
And I think Ni-Fe can see people's intentions and they are more likely to voice them out. While Fi-Ne might keep more quiet about it. Like I've seen 2 IEIs actually voice out someone's intentions out loud to them, and I just cringe at them "unearthing" this person's "secrets" lol.
I've also seen really extraverted IEI and introveted IEI. I think their Fe helps them get along with folks more than EII.
woah no need to take it personal.
Its okay cause all the Fi types are like this to a degree: they all reserve the right for ethical auditing. The duals activators, so on, need it.
Your's had that special autocratic flavour as well: "all Moms should be..."
From my perspective, EII tend to be more serious, value effort, more diligent(or trying to be), hates every way of forcing (to do smth, or force another). They also usually are very friendly.
On the other hand, IEI are just more lazy(lacking the will to do anything), don't like to rush things, sometimes can seem a little rude or immoral. Some of them friendly, some of them can be sometimes cold-ish (or this is just my experience with people).
Most of the descriptive words used point more to enneagram than socionics. Enneagram - motivations of behaviour which leads to how they behave.
I'm going to maximise the stereotype here(how ironic) , IEI are the most logical of ethical types.
I think IEI are more of a romantic and poet more than EII are. After all, IEI are called "Lyricist" for a reason. To be poetic is valued Ni and to be romantic is valued Fe. Romanticism is an expression of feelings and thus Fe. IEI could be visionaries but they could also be poets.
EII tend to be talk more about their personal relationships and analyzing their personal character (Valued Fi) than their expression of feelings. EII also prefer to their feelings to themselves for the purpose of good relationships (Fe ignoring and Fi lead). If anything, EII tend to have a dry style of communication, which is why Delta ST who dislike expression of emotions get along with them so well.
EII - can communicate easily with large groups of people, aim for congeniality and accepting everyone who shows goodwill. Can have cynical outlook towards the future, but doesn't dwell on it.
IEI - communicates better with small groups of people, likes to give a spark of joy in intimate settings. Easily rekindles hope in a brighter future.
EIIs main interest is to keep and create harmony in relationships. They are tolerant and quickly dispose themselves to give concessions to keep peace. Close harmonious relationships are their main focus and they use Ne to anticipate and avoid possible complications to their relations. They are optimistic and think that every person deserves an opportunity and almost all interpersonal problems can be solved improving ourselves and keeping a positive attitude.
IEI is a dreamer and is romantic. Wants to live at his/her own pace and spend his/her time in leisure, pleasant and interesting activities avoiding as much as possible disturbances from others and the outside. They move at their own pace and in the process they can slow down others (even at work). They enjoy and express beauty and emotions especially in social and arts field, but also can provide pleasant mood through emotional manifestations and provide pleasure in society through showing personal interest in others and through bright imaginations and fantasies of abstract topics.
That was great
you really are Ti demonstrating it up
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I can feel IEI's brimming with Se. I imagine EII's to be wiry in comparison
IMO easiest way to differinate is to look at their duals.
EII's dual is LSE Te person which tends to be like a Christian Cowboy, or a conservative courtroom judges that puts unhealthy SLEs in prison. Or asshole douche businessman.
IEI's dual is SLE which is either your typical prison thug or your nice boring good-natured family man person that likes to go to Taco Bell at 2 AM after working their job in construction. Not a Christian Cowboy or Te-valuing Judge.
Do you want to have sex with person A or person B?
Both IEI and EII are going to be pretty moral & ethical, goody two-shoes, and overly sensitive wimps (lol!) so you can't really go by that. str8 male EII & IEI can both even be kinda rowdy and drug-dealer-ish at times. EII tends to plan things better I think, IEI is a bit better at being 'go with the flow' and being adaptive. EII is better at rational thinking, IEI is better with irrational.
I think both SLE and LSE males 'when unhealthy' can be kind of like drunken assholes that just say mean things to everybody all the time. And just tries to hatefully troll everybody they come across.
You won't find out if they have demonstrative Se vs ego Se until they sober up and get a bit healthier first.
Just like both IEI and EII can fantasize about something stupidly and whimsically and you can't really get to know them until they get out of the Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole.
EII is Serious and IEI is Merry. Serious-energy annoys IEIs and Merry-energy annoys EIIs. (Te is deathly serious and EIIs dual-seek it, it's not their PoLR)
I think quite often EIIs are bad at understanding when SLEs are 'just joshin' them' and get really seriously hurt over a lot of what they do, due to Se-PoLR. IEI will understand 'Merry-type' humor and jokes a lot better.
Both types will probably prefer other people to be 'sincere' though because NFs are humanitarians. And even though IEIs are Fe valuing- we supervise ESEs so being too over the top 4D Fe can often annoy IEI as well. Also doesn't mean EIIs are completely grim and without humor- but they do prefer Serious energy and are Deltas.
unhealthy eiis can be quite neurotic. they could even look iike a warped eie, due to strong emotions. but in public they tend to be quiet even if they are unhealthy, and come off as slis but maybe a bit more friendly.soft. obvs i think eiis and slis most come off similar because even esis can just be outspoken in some way that eiis are not. since i knew an sli guy he was cold in groups and reserved but sweet.
@Sol
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
The said was about emotions and those at SEI are closer to IEI and EIE (as same Fe) than EII.
Opinions strange from theory point can be explaned by mistakes in types.
And sometimes other influencing factors. For example, E9 should make people more quiet and wishing to be emotionally comfortable.
> EIIs are cool cats
F, especially base F, can't be "cool". Fi expresses other kind of emotions.
Last edited by Sol; 02-20-2023 at 04:17 PM.
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