LOL.Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Coming together is half luck, half art, dude.
LOL.Coming together is half luck, half art, dude.
OK I'm starting a voice chat now. I will repost the link.
@Adam Strange @blackburry @Delilah @darya @Kakarot @lump @Number 9 large
Last edited by Spermatozoa; 10-20-2017 at 01:59 AM.
In voice I noticed similar things - clear, not overtly emotional, not a lot of variation in speech tone, factual. I was sort of waiting to hear him on voice to see if it would convince me of LIE but in spite of that I'm leaning EIE based on the things he said about himself/values expressed. I am more convinced of EJ>EP now bcuz of the way he handled the convo flow.
Yeah ESIs do that too but I get the feeling it´s not their preferred method. They would rather have a stable relationship and use their energy for self development in say career, creative pursuits, family, obtaining financial security (Se+ creative, after all every type wants to obtain the maximum for its creative function). Not that they´re necessarily going to get that with a LIE, you need a good alignment of everything external.
LSIs maybe like fighting a little bit more. Or sometimes they want an excuse to start a little fight, win, and make the other submit. Just my personal impression...
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Not necessarily. You have to meet the standard to get in to begin with. These are standards of ethical principles which can include mutual respect, reciprocity, honesty, consideration, empathy, compassion, trust, etc. They define the type of relationship. The more you meet them, the more your character is valued. It makes sense that if one is not returning the needs of the relationship, that it deteriorates. Slow to accept the relationship, but if valued, slow to let go as well. It would have to be major to be dropped so quickly.
What still seems out of place to me w EIE is the explicitness ie, "this is what I like/dislike in a person," "if you want to get along w me, you have to __," etc, ime beta nfs are so much more like... You either get it or you don't.... (I wonder what beta nfs would say about this). But if it's only one thing, I guess it's not worth sticking on and I don't really see much sign of Te other than being goal-oriented, but that's not strictly Te. And I think EJ temperament is right.
I don't think this is what Adam was going for with the "drop them like a hot potato" thing, but I don't take any issue with this. Cuivs relationship posts are pretty high drama, but I'm not sure how much at face value to take them and how much is poetic license (but that would point away from LIE too).
The qualities you listed are all good and I know they were just examples, but I feel like it's important to say Fi is really idiosyncratic w what resonates w them and what repels them. I just want to say that bcuz of the notion that fi is all empathy & light or something. An unhealthy fi type might resonate w bad qualities in someone. You're right about the dropping, though, at least w fi base, if you think you were "dropped like a hot potato" you weren't being held as close as you thought to begin with.
The main social role is base function. So generally ESI would choose good relationships (and family as part of it), while other like career, creative pursuits, money are neutral or means for this.
If the social role is satisfied (with whatever means) the creative function (Se+) is going to be the main source personal evolution and social enhancement.
You didn't get my post right.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
There always will be what to do and improve. The main function makes the most influence on what you want and do - as it's the main content of the consciousness.
While the main "source for personal evolution" are weak functions. You can improve yourself there in the most degree, as those functions stay at child level below social norms. Get love with a dual - and this process may go well. There was a little discussion.
Sure, you may improve some _skills_ in strong regions, but this will not change you much as a whole person, will not give such satisfaction and self-esteem, will not make your life so much better and felt fuller.
I don't agree with your interpretation, I believe the creative function is generally the main source of personal improvement and personal impact on the world (I'm not the only one, there's quite a lot of consensus on this). It's not like we are going to find an agreement on this, we can stop this debate now, ok?
Or perhaps you kind of misunderstand some of the terms I'm using, by personal evolution I mean personal "fulfillment", not "balancing out all your negative aspects".
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
That may be. I'm not confident enough about it to say with certainty. It just seems like that is mixing MBTI, subjective feelings that motivate one to act in response to that feeling and socionics Fi which are subjective feelings, but are more restricted in that they are toward an ethical standard. ESI is referred to as the Guardian for a reason. They aren't the "do what feels good type", but "do what IS right to them. It appeals to what they believe is objective ethics.
But it is all overly vague to me really, so idk. There really seem to be inconsistencies in the theory.
fair enough - jung, mbti, and socionics are all kind of mixed & converged in my head holistically in a way that jibes w/ my observations & i've kinda pieced things together that way bcuz its the only way it can sorta work for me. so my understanding of the types isn't very on the nose with a strict classical/aushra understanding.
as far as "what IS right" and "objective" though I'd appeal to the information aspects. Fi is an internal field, so it operates implicitly and subjectively, not with explicit 'rules' like Ti or 'objectively' like an extroverted element.
I think Ti valuers still use Fi, but its like "since there isn't an objective morality, I will do what I want." Again idk because we all have(or most) have a sense of right and wrong. It is the human, not type, condition.
More mind fucks
lol, that's why I struggle w/ socionics definitions in the very literal sense that they're often used. if Fi were simply "having morals" and Fe were simply "expressing emotions" they would just be part of the human condition and that makes things too confusing...
Ti types could come up w/ a system of morals that is more explicit using Ti, or they could relinquish their values to the prevailing social milieu w/ Fe suggestive, or they could have a poofed up role function - idk, maybe its more confusing to have so much variation but if I tried to fit ppl into slots that were so neatly defined and created false mutual exclusions, I'd have to just forget it altogether (and I haven't been able to do that, in spite of myself).
They like anyone have subjective feelings (Fi) - own personal sympathy, personal relation/feelings. There is objective/social "good" and personal - always, and sometimes they match.
Yes, Ti types can easily have a moral code, Fi types can be immoral, Fe polr can cry etc and so on. You'd have to ignore a large part of just being human to fit into the kinds of strict definitions that some people use.
But in some ways I think it's also simpler than assumed, and part of why we don't distinguish types is because we're not realizing how we're using elements or how they differ from other people's use, especially ego elements because they're so natural. You tend to think "doesn't everyone do that?" and it's interesting to see that no, not everyone does that. People operate in different ways. It's when I notice "hey, this person is taking a very different approach from me" that socionics seems more real, but the ways that those differences can merge into a common goal or be overcome to work with someone make it seem like less of a real thing and more like a system of prejudices. So, I guess that's to say that yes there are differences that you can see, but a deterministic hard-line separation of people and relationships seems self-defeating to me.
---
As for Cuiv's type - I find the whole "need to find a mate and breed" thing and the way he's going about it rather cold and formal, like he's looking to fill a job position. It might just be sp + horniness in overdrive. I'm not seeing the Fe in what he says regardless of the colorful way he may describe things as it all comes down to sounding more like an elk in rutting season than anything else. There's no subtlety to it. No nuance or play in his words or emotional tug. It's all rather straightforward, "someone please throw yourself at me and rape me." My 2c
Seems like you are lacking agency in your life right now and sit in a kind of limbo.
As to your type two things stand at my attention. One, the logic of actions doesn't come out in this thread. Its probably there in your real life just no Te information in this thread alone.
Two, many of your sentences are similar to literature about IEE. Could just be some frustration with where you are in life right now (opportunities, change of scenery as themes). :/
Third, don't know, don't care about your type buds welcome to socionic introspection be prepared for it to last a long time.
Cuiv is not IEE, he doesnt even value Si or Fi. And an IEE would never present himself as Cuiv does. Like ever. Not even in forums. Not to talk about his wardrobe. IEEs 3 want to look charming and attractive, EIEs want to make an impact.
To me he's Si PoLR (experiencing Si just in his particular way, regardless what everybody else think or prefer and he feels pretty hurt by Si normativity in society), and his expression could perfectly fit in EIE theatricality (Fe) imo (it has nothing to do with his voice irl, lol).
He also seems fitting into aggressor/victim style I could not imagine him in childlike/caregiver style (I don't think he could imagine himself in that style neither).
I think he's EIE Ni 3w4 8w7 and maybe 6w5. Sx/sp or sp/sx.
Last edited by Mila; 10-20-2017 at 06:50 PM.
I have a clear aim in mind every time I talk to someone. However I am very aware of how I feel about other people - I will have vivid, aesthetic visions where I imagine them doing things with me according to the goal I have in mind (this may not necessarily be sexual, but it often is). If I come across as cold, it is mainly because I can be impatient when I'm misunderstood and/or if someone doesn't follow my lead and act as I want. I am also quite detached from the physical world, much more than a typical EJ type, so I can't always articulate my ideas with as much lucidity as I'd like in words. I find music to be a useful way to work around this. There are non-verbal ways to express yourself creatively.
Nuance and complex wordplay are what you'd expect to see from an Ne ego, but not really from a Ni ego and especially not a Ni Rational. You seem to strongly value these traits in courtship, so perhaps you should consider SLI as a type.
A woman who was determined enough to restrain me physically would impress me. No ropes or Rohypnol though - that would be cheating
Last edited by Spermatozoa; 10-25-2017 at 01:19 AM.
Emotional nuance is Fe, which is what I was referring to. You have very little of this imo.
Nuance and politeness are not the same thing.
No shit. Nobody said they were.
if you observe cuivinene, he tends to state trivially true things in a way presented as originating as a product of his own insight, and then tying some implied or explicit challenge to them such that to ostensibly "take up the challenge" you would be at odds with something obviously true and therefore he wins. the trick is just to admit whatever trifle is at the core of his statement and ignore the rest.
great work squark
most his posts carry on in this way. I wonder what kind of idiots he must be surrounded by that this has worked enough to make a habit of it
What you're objecting to is the vivid, brash way I often talk about sex-related things when I feel playful - partly to let off steam, partly to tease the many people who I know are averse to such impolitic, provocative behaviour. You have expressed a desire for politeness/courtesy in potential partners. Emotional nuance or subtlety, however, refers to the use of metaphor and simile rich, in other words poetic language, drawing analogies and connections between the abstract and the concrete. EIE is certainly not the most adept type at this, because Fe focuses on the emotions of others not those of the self. If you seek emotional nuance look no further than EII.
I really am beginning to suspect that you are an SLI, rather than an LSI, based on these responses. Your dislikes are very odd for Beta Quadra.
No. That would be incorrect. Read what I wrote again.
I wasn't talking about what you've DONE or SAID, but rather what you LACK.
When you make all these statements they come across to me as having no feeling in them. You're not creating any kind of emotion with your words. They're just flat statements about your horniness. There's no teasing in it, you're not drawing anyone in or coming across as playful at all to me. Just kind of . . . well, lacking. Cold and flat. Matter-of-fact. You seem to equate being turned on with passion, but passion involves the heart as well imo, and that's what I don't see. No emotion is being evoked at all, imo.
The other statements you've made about me are also false, but I don't believe this thread is about my type now is it? Nice attempt to redirect.
You are an ESFj, @OP. How do I know? For one, only an ESFj would ever choose that avatar.
Clear and typical ESFj. Next!
Last edited by rat200Turbo; 10-26-2017 at 04:32 AM.
that's what I personally perceive as the "lizard man" quality to it, and squark laid it out beautifully
Bertrand I have always said.. you are some mix between Gamma/Alpha/Yourself. ... just you.
thank you, that means a lot to me...
You have fallen into a trap, which is to assume that something you can't see, touch, taste, hear or smell for yourself, right now, cannot exist.
For this reason, it is hard to take your latest offering very seriously. I frequently behave in a teasing and provocative manner around the forum (I'm doing it right now, in case you haven't noticed) and I do enjoy it. A lot. But of course my approach will depend on my mood and what kind of reactions I intend to create. Therefore, if I come across as cold or formal, it's usually because I'm either engaged in a discussion which I consider to be serious - like when people are not being mean-spirited - or because I am tired, burnt out etc. You aren't going to be made aware of this, of course, so you have to intuit it. I mean, I can't be expected to lay everything out on a plate for people. If I come across as cool/callous perhaps you should consider the fact that you lack valuable information (tone of voice, facial expressions, you get the idea) which could give cues about my character. You could also consider that you come across as rigid, cold and defensive to me, and that I might just be mirroring those vibes straight back to you.
It is easy to fall back on stereotypes and assume the worst, and that's what I feel you are doing with me. Everyone needs to take a slow, deep breath, relax and stop being so hostile when it's unwarranted.
You do have a point, this thread isn't about your type. I will resist temptation
Last edited by Spermatozoa; 10-26-2017 at 07:01 AM.
That's like saying a man could be a woman on the basis of their shit. After all, if @squark and I were to compare stool samples, I'm sure that you would find both to be brown, rancid and sticky. So you should be careful not to draw conclusions based on faulty logic.
Last edited by Spermatozoa; 10-26-2017 at 07:03 AM.
I'm pretty sold on ESE, because its such an unusual take on "missing the point"
when others miss my point, its their fault
when I miss other people's point, its their fault
its that very stereotypical ESFJ thing where its like they act like everyone else is insane
Idk you always struck me as a romantic and that at least sounds characteristic of EIE, if not exclusive of LIE.
Last edited by Grendel; 10-27-2017 at 01:28 AM.
Oh wait, if I am ESE then that makes me your smokin' hot mirage partner.
You must have a massive man crush on me to make such a flattering suggestion. I think you do admire me, actually. No doubt you have been trying to deny this to yourself. Your hatred for me is an illusion, a futile attempt to evade your destiny:
@Cuivienen x @Bertrand
Last edited by Spermatozoa; 10-26-2017 at 06:48 AM.
We talked about how Martian-like Patrick Bateman was, how he was looking at the world like somebody from another planet, watching what people did and trying to work out the right way to behave. And then one day he called me and he had been watching Tom Cruise on David Letterman, and he just had this very intense friendliness with nothing behind the eyes, and he was really taken with this energy.
The way wacey calls everybody 'bud' like an arrogant gay jock both offends me and arouses me.
Anyway back on topic, from our earlier conversations you definitely seem ILI-te.
Nice, though, I am yet to find an SEE who is interested in love raping me.
He seems similar to mcbain in a lot of ways really. Probably same enneagram and instinct stacking (sx/so). And of course xIE-Ni definitely for both.
Essentially, same introspective stuff with the same dramatic flair. But then, even my LIE-Ni ex (who was also sx-first) had the dramatic flair a bit. Just he would naturally default to dry Te after he was done with the social drama mask.
So that's the question here - what does Cuivienen default to if going beyond the social mask?
I'm inclined to think he defaults to Te as natural.
(And same for mcbain yeah.)
PS: This is not to imply that the dramatic mask is "fake" in some bad way. I tend to just see it as some approach to socializing with people that can be quite entertaining (same with my ex, etc).
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