Completely agreed with your point of view. Socionics is based on Information Elements. We should use them to type people (that's what I try to do). Intuition can have its weight when it comes to typing, but in a world like Socionics, logic (and theory) should be always the first weapon to use.Originally Posted by maniac
KEEP IT LIGHT AND KEEP IT MOVING
Nevermind, all the russian text was what made it harder but I found those clips now.
I don't always notice my duals either... after spending a bit of time with them I will, yes, but often not on first sight... I notice conflictors faster.Duals/semi-duals have rather interesting and pleasant personality. The more interesting than duals are only conflictors, but they are trouble to deal close. I'm talking about duals of opposite sex.
If you'll place a video, I'll think about your type and you'll understand how duals affect you. Your behavior is closer to F-E types, you are not quiet and calm person - not phlegmatic what seems most I-J types are.
Are you living with a dual girl? Or this is only theory for you so far? Just curious.
This is a very good point... I find you can try and "find" and integrate your other half of personality but without a dual around it takes way way longer. But even with a dual around, if you are not yet self-aware enough, you will not find and integrate that unconscious side of yours... it all depends on whether you are up for self-growth or not.You Self is limited by your type. About half of your personality is hardly integrated in your consciousness. You may understand yourself better under influence of your dual.
I think most therapists don't work for a given person. It has to be good communication (not necessarily dual lol), and a good empathetic connection has to be established over time. These criteria aren't met sufficiently with many therapists since in therapy you do have to get deep in stuff, it's very personal and emotional and whatnot, not trivial at all. And then they have to be professional too and not just say generic things or try to control the direction where it's you who has to make decisions, etc. So it usually takes time to find a compatible therapist.
That's not really what Socionics is aboutI guess that in your life there's probably some correlation between the instinct stackings (enneagram thing) of your relations, of which have been good and bad. And you have tried to fit these people into the socionics types. Which is what I mostly see people do; fitting people into stereotypes in how they "come off" (things unrelated to the functions) instead of actually seeing if they use this function or not. Intuition is definitely helpful in things as Enneagram but it seems irrelevant in socionics because there are a very limited amount of types and you're supposed to type people on whether they like cooking (Si) or like math (Ti). Which can be two extremely different people.
But I agree that intuition on its own isn't going to be enough for Socionics. What this theory goes by that other personality theories don't is a very technically oriented view. I'm not going to say it's very precise as well, its model lacks too much for that (could be made precise with other research but that's then no longer Socionics).
And yeah agreed on stackings.
That's definitely a very good point, Socionics is only one factor in there, even with regard to compatibility...Also there's a huge difference between chemistry and compatability (and attraction).
This is true, and it's exacerbated by heavy reliance on VI. Then you get people saying that someone "looks like" such and such a type, which is yet another step backwards.
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Last edited by ooo; 09-07-2017 at 10:08 AM.
Conflictors differ maximum and hence get more attention. But duals differ on 3 dichotomies and are hard to be perceived as "ordinary people" and stay without interest. Anyway, duals in this testing should be closer to top.
> Are you living with a dual girl? Or this is only theory for you so far?
It's hypothesis with some personal basis. I know states close to love and how they change the mind. I had long romantic feelings to semi-dual girl, had long pal mirrage. So I partly understand effects what duals may give when you'd had love relations with them.
In the future I may get relations with semi-dual girl, as seems it's common IR of marriges in my family, including parrents. I understand excellently the problems of this IR compared to duality, but I'm not made of iron and offers of destiny are not easy to overcome. So I may never try "the theory" on myself as a model. Yep, there is some humor. I see clear sense to decline relations with any IR except duality, semi-duality, activation. So if I'll get the feelings to a girl inside this IR trio, I may capitulate, including to my charming "agressor" ESI.
> But even with a dual around, if you are not yet self-aware enough, you will not find and integrate that unconscious side of yours..
The only secret is in state of unconditional love, when you introject personality of your dual, begin to think by categories with lesser interpersonal borders - this will start the process of rising weak functions. In what degree, what conditions and transe techics may help, how fast is it, how stable result is, etc - needs research on practice. It's still raw hypothesis, but anyone may try it - it should be safe, pleasant and interesting - people in pair may to feel deeper love to each other, as minimum.
At start it needs to find/make several romantic duality pairs and then train them. To make the check of efficiency easier may be used people with neurotic disorders - their symptoms can be seen, they should reduce in case of success. This experiment may be done by people with diploma of clinical psychologist or close - they have resources and rights to try.
Their nonverbal behavior related to type stays in the borders, so you may read the criterion from them like from others.
> I'll try upload a video as soon as I techno update myself...
That will be interesting to see. ISTJ can't be chosen as "best" by EII, as superego almost always go to bottom.
Yeah I've got about the same amount of experience as you.
Interesting thoughts.> But even with a dual around, if you are not yet self-aware enough, you will not find and integrate that unconscious side of yours..
The only secret is in state of unconditional love, when you introject personality of your dual, begin to think by categories with lesser interpersonal borders - this will start the process of rising weak functions. In what degree, what conditions and transe techics may help, how fast is it, how stable result is, etc - needs research on practice. It's still raw hypothesis, but anyone may try it - it should be safe, pleasant and interesting - people in pair may to feel deeper love to each other, as minimum.
At start it needs to find/make several romantic duality pairs and then train them. To make the check of efficiency easier may be used people with neurotic disorders - their symptoms can be seen, they should reduce in case of success. This experiment may be done by people with diploma of clinical psychologist or close - they have resources and rights to try.
I do agree that acceptance of each other and trust are also needed beyond just being self-aware.
Maybe it's just that I didn't experience duality deep and long enough yet
Q: What is long and hard on an EIE?Yeah I've got about the same amount of experience as you.
Interesting thoughts.
I do agree that acceptance of each other and trust are also needed beyond just being self-aware.
Maybe it's just that I didn't experience duality deep and long enough yet
A: First year organic chemistry.
I think nothing is needed besides that state of love. Two people are concentrated on personalities of each other, integrate in themselves the style of thinking, the needs and wishes of each other, study from other what to be your dual. Such you'll activate and begin study your weak funtions. It's like a student tries to imitate a teacher, but with more passion, deeper compassion, in wider degree, with some trance helping overcome protections and with much more pleasure.
But you need dual, as all other types have conflicting regions and a try of deep integration may to have side-effects. For example, such thing with semi-dual will overrise your 8th function, what may lead to compensation by 4th - probably you'll get more doubts and fears in polr.
> Maybe it's just that I didn't experience duality deep and long enough yet
The main problem is to find good dual girl and to establish relations. Then you may experiment without limitations.
For me, even having skills to find duals, this seems to be a problem. 90% I'll make a marriage with semi-dual (ESI).
@Sol, knowing what you know, why do you want to ruin the life of an innocent young ESI girl? Aren't their lives hard enough already, without being married to a semi-dual?I think nothing is needed besides that state of love. Two people are concentrated on personalities of each other, integrate in themselves the style of thinking, the needs and wishes of each other, study from other what to be your dual. Such you'll activate and begin study your weak funtions. It's like a student tries to imitate a teacher, but with more passion, deeper compassion, in wider degree, with some trance helping overcome protections and with much more pleasure.
But you need dual, as all other types have conflicting regions and a try of deep integration may to have side-effects. For example, such thing with semi-dual will overrise your 8th function, what may lead to compensation by 4th - probably you'll get more doubts and fears in polr.
> Maybe it's just that I didn't experience duality deep and long enough yet
The main problem is to find good dual girl and to establish relations. Then you may experiment without limitations.
For me, even having skills to find duals, this seems to be a problem. 90% I'll make a marriage with semi-dual (ESI).
For what it's worth, I see EII's everywhere, proper and just waiting for an LSE to come along and take care of them forever.
you make it sound as if the ESI will marry a conflictor or a supervisor, what if he didn't marry her & she got stuck with a conflictor? wouldn't a semi-dual be a safer bet?
Yes, eating hamburger is better than eating road-kill, but is not as good as steak.you make it sound as if the ESI will marry a conflictor or a supervisor
Actually, I happen to believe that there are unequal distributions of the types (because some types are more useful to society than others - the female SEI "mother" and the male SLI "worker" are far more valuable to a stable socion than an LIE disruptor, so there are simply more of them in the population), and the statistics that I have seen number the ESI's at about 10% of a population, and LIE's at about 2%. This also agrees with my own personal experience, but it means that there are five ESI's for every LIE, and where will those ESI's find a mate?
Mostly among the ILI's, if my experience is any indicator. @Sol is generous to take up the slack.
Actually, I am joking a bit here. I have seen only two LIE-ESI marriages, and I know about eight LIE's and about ten ESI's, and many of them (not all) are pretty happy with their non-dual mates. A lot depends on what they think is important in a mate. And luck.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 09-04-2017 at 10:27 PM.
1. Hot
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9. Hot
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16. Hot
Well thinking about experience with dual close friend, I did experience a bit of this integration stuff, but, only after I already started being self-aware. Not before that. I knew her for years before that but I just wasn't self-aware as much yet and so I didn't learn anything from her.I think nothing is needed besides that state of love. Two people are concentrated on personalities of each other, integrate in themselves the style of thinking, the needs and wishes of each other, study from other what to be your dual. Such you'll activate and begin study your weak funtions. It's like a student tries to imitate a teacher, but with more passion, deeper compassion, in wider degree, with some trance helping overcome protections and with much more pleasure.
But you need dual, as all other types have conflicting regions and a try of deep integration may to have side-effects. For example, such thing with semi-dual will overrise your 8th function, what may lead to compensation by 4th - probably you'll get more doubts and fears in polr.
> Maybe it's just that I didn't experience duality deep and long enough yet
The main problem is to find good dual girl and to establish relations. Then you may experiment without limitations.
For me, even having skills to find duals, this seems to be a problem. 90% I'll make a marriage with semi-dual (ESI).
And then at that point where I started picking up stuff, I also found extra/special trust was needed too before the relationship could become deeper.
So extrapolating from this, no, I don't think just love (romantic love or not) is enough. You still need to consciously work on yourself, you can't save that work just because you have a dual around. In general you don't get the real good stuff in life without work. Oh and speaking of good stuff, you also don't get the relationship maintained long term without work.
Hard cold reality > wishful/magical thinking : p
I'll explain the situation and such will allow conscious choice.
Semi-dual relations are in top 20% of all. People get ~60% of what they need there. Semi-duality allows psychic state and relations on 3+ (1 - worst, 5 - excellent), knowing the issues I'll try to shift to ~4, what is starting level of duality. It's acceptable. To partly compensate her anxiety, suspiciousness, narrower perception may allow her friendship with Ni girls and esoteric mess to partly support Ni. In case of Ni child she'll get it too.
Sometimes our unconscious decides what to do besides what is good for our as individuals. If I'd did not mistake in past by choosing bad IR, I'd don't try to fix such mistakes in own future and at others. There would no me in Socionics and what I may do useful here.
I don't know why semi-duality issues is what seems I'll need to deal with. Like had them several of my close relatives, including 2 generations of ancestors by man's line. Maybe this will help me to find the solution for something. Or maybe the reason is other.
> I see EII's everywhere, proper and just waiting for an LSE to come along and take care of them forever.
Maybe I was not good enough to get duality
> many of them (not all) are pretty happy with their non-dual mates
yep. types is not all what is important. like duality is not enough for good relations
If you had no love to her (also not all romantic interests are such), then you had more barriers. When you began better to trust and understand yourself, you began better trust to other one, reduced protections and this have helped. But you could pass "understanding yourself" step from the start to introject other's personality, like children do with parrents or students with teachers.
> And then at that point where I started picking up stuff, I also found extra/special trust was needed too before the relationship could become deeper.
To be sincere is imortant for deep feelings and exchange of info - yes. If it's your dual - she'll accept this ok. While in bad IR this may be accepted as annoying.
One of reasons why types are bad - they setup psychic/cognitive borders between people and make harder cooperation between them. The society would become more effective without expressed types. And to overcome types it needs to use types (duality).
> So extrapolating from this, no, I don't think just love (romantic love or not) is enough.
It's hypothesis still. In psychology (NLP, hypnosis) exist technics of psycho adjustment to better understand the other and get more influence on him. You need nothing special to use them. In love state you make similar adjustment in more degree, - you feel introjection of other's personality in your heart, in your conscience - this may be done just by will.
> You still need to consciously work on yourself, you can't save that work just because you have a dual around.
The main work will be to keep attitude and care on practice about your dual like about yourself, to be on one wave with her (including possible telepathy effects) - to perceive youself and her like part of One. Meanwhile to don't decline own needs, reporting, helping to feel them to your dual as you should trust her like to yourself. All this needs to overcome protections what we have generally to people. You'll need accept all risks of unconditional love to the chosen woman, remove your individualism - it's not easy, but should become easier as you'll find such situation pleasant and productive for both.
Here may help technics of unconscious adjustment, kind of self-hypnosis, probably affecting both. They should not be hard in the description, like is not hard Socionics theory. I have some thoughts and little practice of influence on unconscious of others and own. This things may look "funny", but like Socionics - should be taken seriously, they work with unconscious on its language. Previously I descibed something similar on the forum, its variation may be used to establish deeper love with the choosen woman. If someone will choose too "wrong one" for love, this may have not good consequences.
On this forum @Aylen seems to be familiar with something close. Maybe she'll add something useful to what I may write later.
> In general you don't get the real good stuff in life without work.
Seems, says your Se value
In past you needed to train with weapon for years, now it takes a week for same efficiency. In past you needed to buy costy fire, now you have lamps for nothing. We become stronger with every generation and can get same with lesser costs. Similar progress is possible in humanitarian region.
Socionics is example of such technology - it's simple for what may do. The main problem is that it's still developed by amateurs like in past alchemists developed chemistry. In "good hands" it would be implemented to the end of previous century, not to the end of this one.
> you also don't get the relationship maintained long term without work
It seems hard for us today. We live in perverted society where people are enemies to each other more than friends. We one tribe but we have borders and shoot those who pass them, created different languages to protect our minds from each other, we use money to limit access of other people to what they need like they are lesser important than we are, etc. For future people to have good relations in pairs will be same like for us is buying a bread in a shop.
> Hard cold reality > wishful/magical thinking : p
It's not so cold.
I wasn't too clear before. Self-awareness and picking up some of her dual stuff came a bit before adding more trust in the relationship. I really wouldn't discount the role of the drive for increasing self-awareness.
Hmm, I don't see myself doing this just by will with anyone randomly> So extrapolating from this, no, I don't think just love (romantic love or not) is enough.
It's hypothesis still. In psychology (NLP, hypnosis) exist technics of psycho adjustment to better understand the other and get more influence on him. You need nothing special to use them. In love state you make similar adjustment in more degree, - you feel introjection of other's personality in your heart, in your conscience - this may be done just by will.
Yeah, things like that. Making the partner 1st priority (while you are also 1st priority for them).The main work will be to keep attitude and care on practice about your dual like about yourself, to be on one wave with her (including possible telepathy effects) - to perceive youself and her like part of One. Meanwhile to don't decline own needs, reporting, helping to feel them to your dual as you should trust her like to yourself. All this needs to overcome protections what we have generally to people. You'll need accept all risks of unconditional love to the chosen woman, remove your individualism - it's not easy, but should become easier as you'll find such situation pleasant and productive for both.
I'm not sure what you mean by techniques of unconscious adjustment. I once read that all you need to do for really connecting with someone is 1) pick someone you are interested in (with reciprocated interest) and get along with okay 2) after a few dates with them, do this exercise of looking each other in the eye and hold the eye contact for a while 3) you are now in love. lolHere may help technics of unconscious adjustment, kind of self-hypnosis, probably affecting both. They should not be hard in the description, like is not hard Socionics theory. I have some thoughts and little practice of influence on unconscious of others and own. This things may look "funny", but like Socionics - should be taken seriously, they work with unconscious on its language. Previously I descibed something similar on the forum, its variation may be used to establish deeper love with the choosen woman. If someone will choose too "wrong one" for love, this may have not good consequences.
I say lol, bc I don't think it's that simple
@AylenOn this forum @Aylen seems to be familiar with something close. Maybe she'll add something useful to what I may write later.
I'm sure progress is possible in psychological things and it's high time for it. I doubt Socionics as it is now will contribute, too much about it has to be changed but there are some valid ideas embedded in its model.> In general you don't get the real good stuff in life without work.
Seems, says your Se value
In past you needed to train with weapon for years, now it takes a week for same efficiency. In past you needed to buy costy fire, now you have lamps for nothing. We become stronger with every generation and can get same with lesser costs. Similar progress is possible in humanitarian region.
Socionics is example of such technology - it's simple for what may do. The main problem is that it's still developed by amateurs like in past alchemists developed chemistry. In "good hands" it would be implemented to the end of previous century, not to the end of this one.
Nice utopias for now> you also don't get the relationship maintained long term without work
It seems hard for us today. We live in perverted society where people are enemies to each other more than friends. We one tribe but we have borders and shoot those who pass them, created different languages to protect our minds from each other, we use money to limit access of other people to what they need like they are lesser important than we are, etc. For future people to have good relations in pairs will be same like for us is buying a bread in a shop.
> Hard cold reality > wishful/magical thinking : p
It's not so cold.
Increasing of self-awareness has obligate consequence as more trust to others. As you rise your self-esteem and hence become lesser anxiety. You can do introjection without rise of self-awareness, anyway, like in examples I've noticed.
> I don't see myself doing this just by will with anyone randomly
But you may with anyone.
> Making the partner 1st priority
More correctly to describe the attitude I meant is making the "unity of both" as 1st priority. Where dual is not better than you, she's equal.
> I'm not sure what you mean by techniques of unconscious adjustment.
I plan to describe a method to establish deeper love in a pair based on unconscious adjustment through imagination. Kind of "magic" and self-hypnosis, and a little of religion as part of this technic.
> I doubt Socionics as it is now will contribute
Even what is now is a lot, when used correctly. When you'll finish IR test you should understand this.
> Nice utopias for now
Tomorrow technology often seems as impossible for today. The world 500 years ago was very different. After next 500 years it will similarly different compared for today. We developed hardware technics in the last centuries, now we'll develope humanitarian technology. Just because without this becomes dangerously to develop only hardware - as we get the situation "monkey with a granade". Since XX century we fastly ruin nature and have threat of idiotic nuclear wars. Not much time stays to take attention on psycho of people and how society works, - they became too archaic. Since 2060 delta era comes for 70 years, - people will try to fix this situation in their minds, - "utopias" will alive and will leave something useful, like all quadras do. Socionics is delta's thing mostly - relations (Fi) through understanding of psycho of individs (Ne).
> I wasn't trying to say that if we don't understand something then it has to be magic.
But "magic" is this, - when we can do something and have no objective idea how this happens. Placebo - is the most known "magic" today.
Self-awareness did help in realizing some things about the dynamics hence increased trust later but my picking up stuff from my dual started before the increased trust. 1. Self-awareness focus 2. Picking up stuff from dual 3. Increased trust 4. Other good stuff perhaps
Self-awareness isn't self-esteem, btw. It's also not to do with anxiety per se.
And, this is me, but I would have too much resistance against doing this introjection thing without having real desire for it first. (And trust, etc.)
Well, to a degree you can establish it with most people, yes, and that's a fine thing, but the really really close deep version of it with anyone isn't realistic to me. As the world is now, anyway.> I don't see myself doing this just by will with anyone randomly
But you may with anyone.
Yes, that's well put> Making the partner 1st priority
More correctly to describe the attitude I meant is making the "unity of both" as 1st priority. Where dual is not better than you, she's equal.
I'll be curious to see this.> I'm not sure what you mean by techniques of unconscious adjustment.
I plan to describe a method to establish deeper love in a pair based on unconscious adjustment through imagination. Kind of "magic" and self-hypnosis, and a little of religion as part of this technic.
I should have time for it by the weekend.> I doubt Socionics as it is now will contribute
Even what is now is a lot, when used correctly. When you'll finish IR test you should understand this.
I did say "for now"> Nice utopias for now
Tomorrow technology often seems as impossible for today. The world 500 years ago was very different. After next 500 years it will similarly different compared for today. We developed hardware technics in the last centuries, now we'll develope humanitarian technology. Just because without this becomes dangerously to develop only hardware - as we get the situation "monkey with a granade". Since XX century we fastly ruin nature and have threat of idiotic nuclear wars. Not much time stays to take attention on psycho of people and how society works, - they became too archaic. Since 2060 delta era comes for 70 years, - people will try to fix this situation in their minds, - "utopias" will alive and will leave something useful, like all quadras do. Socionics is delta's thing mostly - relations (Fi) through understanding of psycho of individs (Ne).I don't really know what's possible in future, maybe possible, maybe not, but for now definitely an utopia.
But, I absolutely agree on needing way more of a focus on psychological aspects of issues. As I said it's high time for that.
Yeah I just don't want to call it magic> I wasn't trying to say that if we don't understand something then it has to be magic.
But "magic" is this, - when we can do something and have no objective idea how this happens. Placebo - is the most known "magic" today.
for ESI vs EII: compare LIE vs LSE, LIE+ILI vs LSE+SLI
> How is an ESI suppose to conflict with an Ile? They don't seem bad to me.
conflictors are often look ok on a distance. funny, interesting, cute. by impressions from video they are often in upper half
In close irl contact you quickly tire from conflictor and feel irrational anxiety in superego regions, instead of comfort and inspiration like from good IR.
The main idea - you need nothing special to introject. Any child can this.
> I'll be curious to see this.
behold (below)
> Yeah I just don't want to call it magic
let's call it quantum physics
Technology of unconscious adjustment for deeper love in pairs
Main ideas and precautions:
1) The border between the imagination and reality is not strict. When you believe in something and want this to be - it may to become real in some degree. This degree is unknown and may be checked by practical result. It's possible to train the skill to feel the link between imagination and reality.
The reality (in all times) is in continuous creation by the God. People perceive him as almighty loving light, knowing everything, existing out of time, the expression of absolute harmony, which unconditionally loves everyone. When you believe in something you "ask" the God to do this and if you are sincere - he'll do this. When you get the "answer" with agreement - you feel it. The power of God is endless and he needs nothing in return.
You may establish conscious link with God to ask psychic energy or other. Such link also rises your wisdom. There is no limit how strong you may unite your mind with God, with his love, power and knowledge.
2) Never wish bad to someone. You may get tactical benefit, but you'll loose strategically. Think and learn how to get what you want by only good wishes, which you would wish to yourself too. For example, if someone makes problems to you - don't wish him bad, but imagine your good relations which are pleasant for both.
3) All people are equal on the level of our eternal essences, which are beyond our personalities as humans. We may perceive these essences as lights or fires. These essences represent us as children of God, which have his main attributes (except power). Never think someone generally is below you or higher than you. So you may only collaborate with others, - if you take something, you need to give not lesser in return. You may make gifts to anyone, and then you'll receive the compensation from God in some of forms.
4) To practice under alcohol or other narcotic is not good idea. Any psychotropic meds break natural brain's function, so keep >2 week gap between them and practice. I don't recommend to combine trance with such stuff.
The method
1) Stay on a floor. Imagine like you draw a protective circle on it. Stay in it and feel a protective field around you. This will prevent from external distractions.
2) Invoke to God, which image imagine above your head, feel the link with him and how his loving light is filling you with power and pleasure. Do it to degree when you'll feel yourself satiated. You may get power from God in any time when you feel tired during the method.
3) Imagine your woman with loving smiling to you. Imagine near your heart a loving light, transfer this energy to her heart, imagine like the energy spreads on all her body, feel like she feels happier and stronger. Now get the same amount of energy from her heart to yours and feel like this energy spreads in all your body. Feel how this energy differs from yours, it represents her essence as a woman and a child of God. Introject her in your body, heart and mind. Her body sensations become yours, her emotions become yours, her thoughts become yours, - you become her, you two become as one. Feel and see the world like she feels and sees it, like from her eyes. Imagine like she sees and feels the world like you. Imagine like you both seeing and feeling the world in similar way simultaneously, like One. Now you have established the link.
4) The idea of unconditional love is in acceptance of everything without a deprecation, but with liking and good for you and for both and for all people. The surface level of love has 3 qualities: passion (acceptance of body), friendship (acceptance of soul - emotions/wishes), respect (acceptance of mind - thoughts). You should accept and to like all her body (with passion), all sincere wishes (with friendship) and thoughts (with respect). Similarly she has to accept your qualities. As places of body between which to transfer the energy/information you may use whole body, solar plexus or specific ones: passion (stomach a little below navel), friendship (heart), respect (head). Do the steps 2-3, but instead of "loving energy" get info about her body traits to accept and like them with passion. Then transfer her info about own body traits and imagine as she similarly accepts and likes them with passion. Now make exchange by your passions: transfer her your passion and feel how this rises passion in her to you ; get (the amount you've transferred) of her passion in yourself to rise your passion to her. Now imagine like you both feel unconditional passion to each other. Do same with wishes/friendship and thoughts/respect.
5) People are not perfect and life with them has problems. You need agree to accept everything in your life with her, all her issues and diseases without deprecation, while trying to love always and keeping faithfulness (all her life). You should perceive each other as parts of One, where the life and needs of other are like your own. Do like in step 4, with the idea of unconditional acceptance the fate with her during the whole life, and imagining her accepting similarly you. The only thing is unacceptable - sexual unfaithfulness ; despite cases when your culture allows several wives/husbands (they may be added to family after the agreement of the existing ones) or your culture accepts sex outside of families with some conditions, but common adultery is not excusable anyway.
As addition you may use also the idea like "With no one except me it will be so good for her, and for me with anyone else".
These should be done by both. Before the sleeping. The effect may begin appear since the next day. The method should be used regularly. Everyday at the beginning. Later at least at new moon phase. Additionally may be done also in other times like at a morning after awakening, not only at evening.
A marriage - is when 2 people dedicate themselves to love each other. Primarily, it's sacred union on whole life.
To make love easier there are marriage vows:
1) I'll have no sex with other woman/man until my death
2) I'll be trying good to love you
3) I'll be trying good to be close to you
4) I'll be trying good to be honest and sincere with you
5) I'll be trying good to understand you, to do not feel offensed at you and to forgive you if I did.
Some items need an explanation.
2th. Love is following not only from the sympathy. It needs soul efforts and actions from you, the example of what is the method above. The marriage is spiritual union, and secondary as physical. To love there is your duty and the basis for happy relations.
4th. When you are not sincere - you set a border between you and behind that border you are alone. In love everything is exchanged as common for both - the more such, the more love you have. You are like two hands of one body, one soul for both, one mind for both.
Last edited by Sol; 02-22-2018 at 01:22 AM.
I know a girl. She's ESI. But thinks herself as EII, because likes it more.
I periodically point why her version is wrong, and she points me that I'm rude there and then... stays with same opinion. So we live there.
If you get controversion in IR theory by examples, then you need still to think about own type.
Lol, @Sol. At this rate, you actually might end up with an "ESI" of your own choosing instead of an EII.I know a girl. She's ESI. But thinks herself as EII, because likes it more.
I periodically point why her version is wrong, and she points me that I'm rude there and then... stays with same opinion. So we live there.
If you get controversion in IR theory by examples, then you need still to think about own type.
To me, Reverie seems as EII as they come. Just look at her avatar pic. Delta Autumn. She always looks poised and proper and composed. Delta all day long.
@Sol
Do you realize that there's so much more examples of women than men? Do you also realize that 90% of men you've posted are either very very ugly or very very old? That makes the ranking pretty hard.
Did you watch her video? To me it was a clear case: ESI.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
According to avatar Gamma is more possible. Delta has no Ni romantism of dying weather.
I don't find them ugly, just ordinary people. Anyway, you should analyze impressions from nonverbal behavior, but not how pretty look they have. You may sort by women, if you find them more attractive.
There are more women, as it's more interesting for me to see and meanwhile type them. The only what matters - are there enough examples (>= 3) or not, but even some types having 2 examples per sex can be used for testing.
About a girl on Russian forum. But you may be similar in something besides types.
Can you provide a link to the video?
Thanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2yAIclWTHc
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Thanks. Yes, I have seen this. @reverie looks like and has the mannerisms of the EII secretary I've been working with and taking to lunch for the past seven years (and she has repeatedly tested as an EII). If they are ESI, then something is seriously wrong with one of us, because the vibe I get from EII's is that they are impressively down-to-earth, thoughtful, helpful, wonder people, but there is no romantic "spark" there, as I find there to be with ESI's. The attraction (or appreciation, really) I have for EII's is all intellectual.*
Of course, this is all based on my subjective feelings, and not at all based on socionics definitions. However, I'll bet that if you pressed reverie with socionics questions designed to distinguish between ESI and EII, she'd be EII.
Maybe I can return to this discussions with some of those questions when I have more time.
Truthfully, though, how many times have you seen duals be unable to recognize each other's types because their biases are so high? ("You could never be my dual!") I think I've seen this a lot. I've even experienced it. Lol.
*while the attraction I have for my other "semi-duals", the Mirage LSI's, is all sexual. I won't go into this at any greater length, but it might be an interesting topic for another thread.
ESI's are somewhere in the middle. Thank goodness.
Good idea for a thread lol, types of attractions.
These directions seem pretty up-to-code. But for those visual learners out there this picture might also be helpful.
The main idea - you need nothing special to introject. Any child can this.
> I'll be curious to see this.
behold (below)
> Yeah I just don't want to call it magic
let's call it quantum physics
Technology of unconscious adjustment for deeper love in pairs
Main ideas and precautions:
1) The border between the imagination and reality is not strict. When you believe in something and want this to be - it may to become real in some degree. This degree is unknown and may be checked by practical result. It's possible to train the skill to feel the link between imagination and reality.
The reality (in all times) is in continuous creation by the God. People perceive him as almighty loving light, knowing everything, existing out of time, the expression of absolute harmony, which unconditionally loves everyone. When you believe in something you "ask" the God to do this and if you are sincere - he'll do this. When you get the "answer" with agreement - you feel it. The power of God is endless and he needs nothing in return.
You may establish conscious link with God to ask psychic energy or other. Such link also rises your wisdom. There is no limit how strong you may unite your mind with God, with his love, power and knowledge.
2) Never wish bad to someone. You may get tactical benefit, but you'll loose strategically. Think and learn how to get what you want by only good wishes, which you would wish to yourself too. For example, if someone makes problems to you - don't wish him bad, but imagine your good relations which are pleasant for both.
3) All people are equal on the level of our eternal essences, which are beyond our personalities as humans. We may perceive these essences as lights or fires. These essences represent us as children of God, which have his main attributes (except power). Never think someone generally is below you or higher than you. So you may only collaborate with others, - if you take something, you need to give not lesser in return. You may make gifts to anyone, and then you'll receive the compensation from God in some of forms.
4) To practice under alcohol or other narcotic is not good idea. Any psychotropic meds break natural brain's function, so keep >2 week gap between them and practice. I don't recommend to combine trance with such stuff.
The method
1) Stay on a floor. Imagine like you draw a protective circle on it. Stay in it and feel a protective field around you. This will prevent from external distractions.
2) Invoke to God, which image imagine above your head, feel the link with him and how his loving light is filling you with power and pleasure. Do it to degree when you'll feel yourself satiated. You may get power from God in any time when you feel tired during the method.
3) Imagine your woman with loving smiling to you. Imagine near your heart a loving light, transfer this energy to her heart, imagine like the energy spreads on her body, feel like she feels happier and stronger. Now get the same amount of energy from her heart to your one. Feel how this energy differs from yours, it represents her essence as a woman and a child of God. Feel and see the world like she feels and sees it, like from her eyes. Imagine like she sees and feels the world like you. Imagine like you both seeing and feeling the world in similar way, like One. Now you have established the link.
4) The idea of unconditional love is in acceptance of everything without a deprecation, but with liking and good for you and both. The surface level of love has 3 qualities: passion (acceptance of body), friendship (acceptance of wishes), respect (acceptance of thoughts). You should accept and to like all her body traits (with passion), all sincere wishes (with friendship) and thoughts (with respect). Similarly she has to accept your qualities. As places of body between which to transfer the energy/information you may use whole body, solar plexus or specific ones: passion (stomach a little below navel), friendship (heart), respect (head). Do the steps 2-3, but instead of "loving energy" get info about her body traits to accept and like them with passion. Then transfer her info about own body traits and imagine as she similarly accepts and likes them with passion. Now make exchange by your passions: transfer her your passion and feel how this rises passion in her to you ; get (amount you've transferred) of her passion in yourself to rise your passion to her. Now imagine like you both feel unconditional passion to each other. Do same with wishes/friendship and thoughts/respect.
5) People are not perfect and life with them has problems. You need agree to accept everything in your life with her, all her issues and diseases without deprecation, while trying to love always and keeping faithfulness (all her life). You should perceive each other as parts of One, where the life and needs of other are like your own. Do like in step 4, with the idea of unconditional acceptance the fate with her during the whole life, and imagining her accepting similarly you. The only thing is unacceptable - sexual unfaithfulness ; despite cases when your culture allows several wives/husbands (they may be added to family after the agreement of the existing ones) or your culture accepts sex outside of families with some conditions, but common adultery is not excusable anyway.
As addition you may use also the idea like "With no one except me it will be so good for her, and for me with anyone else".
These should be done by both. Before sleeping. The effect may appear on the next day. The method should be used regularly. Everyday at the beginning. Later at least at new moon phase. Additionally may be done also in other time of a day, not only at evening.
@Aylen may say what this may do and where to improve
You gotta give me a minute to re orientate myself. This new version of sol, I am seeing, has weirded me out a little.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
@reverie I agree with Adam, your expressions are way more EII than ESI in the video and you don't seem to have that much of a presence. Not terribly detached because you got a Ethics lead function after all (not Intuition lead), but still somewhat that.
Edit: you deleted your post? Whatever.
@reverie, you asked for responses to the question of whether or not you intimidate "us".
I'd say No, but that's just me, because I happen to like EII's and appreciate their easy solidity and intelligent advice. If you wanted my impression, I'd say you might be intimidating to some people in your competence. It's clear that you have high standards which you won't compromise. That might be intimidating to some people, but I don't know if that's what everyone means, though.
No worriesSorry, Myst
I deleted it before I knew you commented. Thank you for commenting.Now I feel horrible...
I felt I got too personal in the beginning, which is why I deleted it. But I'll repost the end, which is what you commented on.:
It's more from my past. You just see more of me.
Ni practice is exhaustive for me. But if I'll compensate the type by dual, then I'll reduce this limit.
> I don't think you have to follow them exactly so you can customize it to help shift a mindset.
Yep. There is "frame", which you may fill with different. Or try to modify.
> Like some people would be put off by the word "god" but they can replace that easily with what works for them.
Not so easily, but possible. There is something, what our mind perceives such. And this is practically useful. How to call this is secondary, but its traits I've described are part of the method - they help to use it. Most people should accept this model.
Other ones may understand the Source like "internal image" which represents something in their mind, kind of hallucination. But for unconsciousness the mythological perception is easier and hence more effective. First of all - it's model, by which we get some result.
It's all men, ranking from best to worst:
1. EIE - I like their dynamic expression and they seem very present in the videos.
2. SLI - Grounded and present energy as well.
3. SLE - Dynamic and expressive just like EIE.
4. LIE - I had issue with them trying to seem to serious, while a lot of them to me actually seemed more goofy than they would admit. If I don't think about the goofiness of them they are overall pleasent to look at.
5. EII - Most of them seem too nerdy for me, but they also seem like nice people to talk to and to share time with.
6. LII - Too femine and goofy but I can't get rid of the feeling that there's something cute about them.
7. IEI - I felt mixed feelings about them. Their impresion is very similar to the one of the IEI, but more confusing for me. Some of the guys seem very nice to me, others just literally pissed off with their expression.
8. LSE - I liked how present and confident they looked, but there was also something too boring about them. Like I'd probably fall asleep halfway of their speach.
9. ESE - Tooooo goofy, too much expression, too much of everything.
10. IEE - Same
11. SEE - Something about those guys seemed sort of honourable but I know I'd never acutally get along with them. I usually feel a lot of tension in a company of such people, like I know there's a conflict of values coming sooner or later.
12. ESI - Didn't like them, can't really explain why though.
13. SEI - Tooo goofy, why are all alpha SFs sooo tocuhy-feely. It's a bit off putting.
14. ILE- same as SEI actually.
15. ILI - The coldness and emotionaless expression was really really terrible to look at.
16. LSI - I can't get rid of the feeling that they all seem like bunch of stupid rednecks who smell like sweat and gasoline. Disgusting.
down-to-earth N types. fascinating
> but there is no romantic "spark" there, as I find there to be with ESI's. The attraction (or appreciation, really) I have for EII's is all intellectual.*
semi-duals are generally have higher "romantic spark" than average. as personally pleasant girls can't be other. it's more clear in irl contact, certainly
but also for "romantic spark" are important non-types things like pretty body, general femininity, pheromones' level, etc
> intellectual
for intellectual contact for T types are more interesting other T types. F types for T ones are for soul, not for intellect
> how many times have you seen duals be unable to recognize each other's types because their biases are so high?
the important - how much of experience with concrete or similar IR/types you had in past. and could to understand this. as mostly people are bad in typology then this is common. same is with ANY IR, not duals only
> the Mirage LSI's, is all sexual
mirage are not the worst IR as support your 2nd function. they are relatively pleasant as persons
also as sexuality is mostly linked to S, then for J types mirages are more comfort in this - their duals have similar tastes
> ESI's are somewhere in the middle. Thank goodness.
for sexual attraction I'd range: non-types factors, good IR, your past passion to some types
ESI
EIE
LSE
SLI
ESE
EII
ILI
*no order from now on, all are bad*:
SEI
LII - feminine
SLE - too feminine
SEE - seems like you've just typed all fat people this type. unintelligent.
IEE - please stop talking
LIE - no
IEI - goofy and feminine
LSI - 0 sexual energy, unattractive, the young guy was more ok but too feminine
Last edited by maniac; 09-08-2017 at 02:14 PM.
@Fay
we had 2 problems: you made the test seems like 2 hours, while expected time is >7 hours. you've shortned something; you did not like "90%" of men there so maybe to make the sorting by women would be more correct. anyway...
we have most E, T on top -> your I, F. Taking into account top half, the result for F is stronger. Among T types in top most are P types, what points to your P type: INFP, ISFP
the strange thing with IEI version is SLI there as superego
you have prefered the type similar to yours: EIE. it's not the 1st case I see such and I suspect the sorting by other sex would be better
at least, you have chosen your dual to top
As result: we have not gotten good match to version IEI, expressed contradictions. but there is something reasonable in results, anyway
> ILI - The coldness and emotionaless expression was really really terrible to look at.
generally Te are perceived such by Fe types
> LSI - I can't get rid of the feeling that they all seem like bunch of stupid rednecks who smell like sweat and gasoline. Disgusting.
you'll be our delta agent in beta, comprade
Last edited by Sol; 09-08-2017 at 05:17 PM.
@maniac
You prefer J, S types -> your J, N type
> no order from now on, all are bad
order is important. all recomendations are important or you may get a mess
without video your type is unkown, IR test is secondary tool - mostly to prove version
> SLE - too feminine
the most stereotypically masculine type, meanwhile
> LSI - 0 sexual energy, unattractive, the young guy was more ok but too feminine
Seems this day is not LSI's one
Last edited by Sol; 09-08-2017 at 05:13 PM.
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