That is a good point.Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb
That is a good point.
So I’ve discussed the topic about Elon being LSI with my duals and we’ve sorted it out that the premise with Elon as LSI as in Beta Ti and not Alpha Ti has to do with his tough managerial style. Elon is privately known to be micromanaging and uncompromising which makes him super unlikely as Alpha. One of my cousins works at SpaceX can corroborate this. My cousin worked at SpaceX since it started and has complained of long hours, overworked and underpaid, and rigid hierarchy (have to go through proper channels and super rigid with protocols) after all these years (I think my cousin is SEI). Now the thing is, LSI have Control Te, which means they outsource Te function/ get other people to do that for them as in execute their ideas. This is the reason LSI is notorious for ruling with an iron grip, but with Control Te where they want to tightly control the business process but won’t follow the rules they set up themselves. Elon comes up with the ideas and have set himself up structurally to be at the top while he gave orders for others to execute his ideas and he manages the process to make sure it fits his Ti vision. So Elon actually does have Se in his ego, he’s quite adept and well versed with Se. I think like most people, I got distracted by what appears to be Ne, but it’s not. Upon closer inspection it’s actually Control Te.
And with that explanation, it is not possible for Elon to be anything Te, least of all Gamma Te since Te doesn’t doesn’t operate on rigid hierarchy. Contrast with ILI Zuck (he’s a very gross and extreme version of my dual) with Facebook and how the departments operate more along the lines of being equal, people treated like they all do something important and it isn’t socially stratified. I have some friends who work at Facebook in various departments and they love it there because they’re treated well.
Elon Musk - ESFP Napoleon SEE
This is the comment you are looking for
SEE theory response
You know Musk literally is a genius coder right? Ti polr good at code is hilarious as a meme. Nice meme. I mean, you're allowed to say Ti has nothing to do with the skills required for coding, but then you'll have to rewrite a ton.
Have some inductive reasoning.
structure, analysis, coherence, consistency, cogency, accordance, match, commensurability, understanding, order, or the lack of thereof >>> What is code?
In another form, deductive reasoning
LSI theory response.
Musk doesn't get angry over minute detail like Maxim would. Yes, he micromanages, but how do you be efficient without micromanaging? If I wanted to be as efficient as possible, I'd micromanage too. I just can't take the constant work, and such, and thus don't. Macromanagement is key here. Them's the mirror.
I'll check if he has a hidden angry side like Steve Jobs, actual plausible LSI.
Edit: He did have a meltdown. It was from losing his ability to work from Covid.
https://www.protocol.com/elon-musk-derails-tesla-earnings-call
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...Stratiyevskaya
Zuckerberg ILI response.
Yeah probably. He has a characteristic expressionless face. I honestly didn't check very hard. I'll do so over time while I think and process information.
My conclusion. You don't like your activity relation.
There's a ton more, but I don't want to overwhelm you with reasoning. If you press I will, however, people have found my reasoning hard to understand, it seems.
More on Elon Musk
I also read further, and Musk somehow has a balance between his own life and work that is manageable, while also having no relaxation whatsoever. This is Si polr. I understand why it would be Se, but nah. If that was the case, he'd be ESTp, and this is unlikely.
Last edited by Alomoes; 03-03-2021 at 04:04 AM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology
An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko
Only dual type can save us! lol
LSI-LIE
The Socionics messiah will return one day and wash away all the DCNH heathens!
https://youtu.be/UVHPHNegJNc
this video was a bit surprising to me, because Elon answered in the exact same way that I would answer (at least in the first part of the video).
I really hated school when I was a kid and did very poorly. it just seemed to me that you're learning a bunch of trivial facts that you will never need in your life. I was wondering if other Ti valuing types feel the same way. Ti is all about "why am I doing this? ".
@shotgunfingers
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
Yes. I thought school was pointless. I found it fun to go see my friends and screw around with them throughout the day though. I just didn't care about any of the things they were teaching, never thought about why I didn't care though. (high Ti low Ni I suppose) I would just focus on like talking to people in class or think about what I'd be doing after school. Didn't really fuck with the teachers.. My SEE friend did a lot. ( I guess Ti understanding the structure) As long as I did my homework I could figure out enough about the subject to BS through the exams for a "B". Somehow still managed decent grades with this perspective.
I also think that creative subtypes struggle more in school, since they can only really focus on what interests them. doesn't help that most teachers are normalising subtypes who often have no idea how to engage C-subs. probably a lot of lost potential here. only really felt alive when I moved to a big city when I was 18 yo.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
Yeah same, although I did well despite low effort. I always thought the education system was terrible and we learned a bunch of useless things while things that would have been more useful weren't even on the menu. Especially when it came to literature I couldn't for the life of me understand why I had to learn all that and subsequently couldn't assimilate the material simply out of disinterest.
Lol at Te ignoring. I kind of automatically applied stuff. Not that I wanted anything out of it (lol at Ni ignoring) but still. Every piece of information (even shit) is full of potential.
Last edited by The Reality Denialist; 03-13-2021 at 09:32 AM.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Scotty will love the new Toyota electric I can already smell it..
As you was a kid which understood not good what happens and much stay still, including due to lack of humanitarian education to understand your place in the world. Specialization is easier, but makes you a semideveloped half-human and a slave which has reduced abbility to choose how to live.
The task of good education is to give the wide basis about anything. As: 1) allows you to understand what you like and your abbilities, it's not known what you'll choose for additional education, you may have different occupations during the life, 2) specific occupations exist not in a vacuum but are a part of the world, and the better you understand the context - the better you may do something in it, 3) education may develop your kiddy mind in its different parts so you'd was lesser retarded in general.
Literature can study about the culture, relations of people and their psychology. The psychology which you seek now on this forum, though with irresponsible trust to baseless hypotheses instead of more adequate approach. The relations of people by which you seem dissatisfied. In case you'd read what was recommended and then continued to dig more there - mb you'd had lesser problems with people and better understood them.
Great that you was able to understand the importance of knowledge about people (F), besides your technical occupations (T). While the majority stays stuck in info of narrow occupations and misses possibilities which gives wider knowledge of life.
Taking you mistype yourself in hard way (ILE->LSI) and by dumb reasons, your way in F region development is not started still. You only play in psychology alike another computer game and unable to accept the reality even about yourself, not to say - to understand better other people.
words of wisdom.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
this guy talks and talks and my brain doesn't register anything he is saying. could be my conflict type.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
Someone uploaded a video with his ex wife’s words from what must’ve been an interview or maybe she recorded the audio herself. According to her claims:
He kept the success of his business hidden from her, at first.
He kept pushing her to go blonder after they got married to blend in with the trophy wife types, got himself a yacht and luxury cars.
At their wedding he said to her “I’m the Alpha in this relationship” (how are there men that say something like this and are able to keep a straight face?)
At times, when she reminded him she wasn’t one of his employees, he replied that if she were, he would fire her.
He refused to talk about their dead baby son and condemned his ex for grieving openly for considering it emotionally manipulative.
Ni/Se valuing logical type with an iron grip. DC subtype rather than C subtype alone IMO.
@Alive, I think Scotty is LIE-Ni. I have a friend who is a lot like him. Not Conflict; Extinguishment.
Makes sense to me. LIE is obstinate. Wowee. How obstinate are you, Adam?
6 weeks later, sounds about right. The usual time for a person who don't really care.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology
An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko
I always thought Scotty was SEE, but it’s been a couple of years since I’ve watched his videos so idk.
I found this oldish interview. He's probably being interviewed by his dual.
He looks and sounds more relaxed and laughy than in a vast number of other interviews, a fact noted by his fans in the comments.
I find him really interesting, and difficult to type. The two most popular types in this thread seem to be LIE and LSI
Both LSI and LIE are persistent in their own ways, while LSI more often ask:
Is this change adding anything useful, necessary? Is it practical?
They are pragmatists, less given to speculate outside of their areas of expertise.
Because they prioritise competence, they can be exacting of quality - the resulting product is consistent, because there are systems in place and respect for authority.
LIE are inspired to action by possibilities, visions of a future improved. Elon said in the interview "we don't even have supersonic transport - that's terrible"
LIE tirelessly pursue their ideas, prioritising implementation. The process of action is adjusted freely, as circumstances necessitate.
Having a dynamic type, they weigh the best course of action as they detect change in demand, financial climate(?)
Windows of opportunity are apparent to LIE, who are more likely than LSI to take big risks that threaten stability.
LSI, having a static sensory type, would take pride in being in control and cognisant of the details every step of the way.
To LSI, being reasonable with your expectations is what guarantees results.
so I watched 4 videos today and yeah, I agree with you. he doesn't talk about relationships at all, just goes on and on about technical specifics and after an hour of rapid-fire EJ talking about Te I felt like my brain was melting.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
Elon Musk - ESFP Napoleon
This is the comment you are looking for
Maye Musk - ENTJ Stierlitz
Elon Musk - ESFP son of an ENTJ woman
This is the comment you are looking for
Hey, Adam. I'm quoting you in particular but I'm monologuing on the idea of Musk being ILE so pay me no mind.
Firstly, let’s begin stating the obvious: the interview where Musk appears the most comfortable in is pure Ti/Fe carnival. So I agree Fe valuing.
Secondly, since my last post here I got a job teaching part-time so I've been been exposed to scores of people. I can tell you he is no ILE but get closer to people like him and quite rapidly you'll notice he shows atypical traits for an ILE, much more leaning towards Inspector, such as noticing a wrong page number, misspellings, etc., things ILEs are more willing to leave unmentioned, ‘a responsible student’ with the need to introduce order into reality. He's very ‘square’ in that sense whereas ILE introduces a little chaos.
Thirdly, and it's the reason why I'm posting here, Grimes (IEI>EIE IMO) released the video for her break-up song 2 days ago and she chose to depict Musk as an armoured knight she finds impossible to reach with her naked feelings. IEIs (or any other type) might view ILE as peculiar but not as a ginormous strong and stoic figure, a representation more linked to a stiff-necked logical sensor. If anything, IEIs, as any other victim type, might think ILEs as a somewhat immature person with a loose mouth as apposed to the silent character hinted at in the video. The video shows the anxiety of an NF in a ‘turbulent’ Beta relationship.
In short, I think Gulenko is right with the LSI typing.
@Rusal, I had forgotten that I typed Musk as ILE. I’d forgotten Gulenko’s typing of him, too.
I’ve been thinking about his type for a while and I now think that LSI fits him fairly well, although he’s not a healthy example of one.
Not quite sure on what the actual beef is with this poll. From his opinion about UBI to invent the automation, it's obviously a LIE.
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Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
That video is how rational sensing relations run when they don't get any more options. It becomes a Se-Si clanking of the swords. I also don't see ILE or LiE for him.
Incredibly obvious LIE
I AM YOUR HOLY TOTEM
I AM YOUR SICK TABOO
RADICAL AND RADIANT
I'M YOUR NIGHTMARE COMING TRUE
I AM YOUR WORST ENEMY
I AM YOUR DEAREST FRIEND
MALIGNANTLY MALEVOLENT
I AM OF DIVINE DESCENT
I AM YOUR UNCONSCIOUSNESS
I AM UNRESTRAINED EXCESS
METAMORPHIC RESTLESSNESS
I'M YOUR UNEXPECTEDNESS
I AM YOUR APOCALYPSESTRAY BULLET
I AM YOUR BELIEF UNWROUGHT
MONOLITHIC JUGGERNAUT
FROM THE HEAVENS ABOVE
STRAY BULLET
READY OR NOT
I'M THE ILLEGITIMATE SON OF GOD
In case you're interested, you could go over some of his interviews. His facial expressions are economical and he scans inwards when it's his turn to talk, indicating introversion and energy directed inwards (sometimes apparent in very telling gestures like here). LIEs are less likely to be like that, they affect their direct environment much more and interact with it dynamically, because they seem to be able to think on their feet and, well, they're EJ.
He looks rather enlivened and comfortable in this one, as noted in the comments by surprised die-hard fans, because it's merry quadra talk, not Te/Fi. Everything is kept ‘superficial’ and fun, not subdued and about personal attitudes. She's likely EIE>IEI and she’s preying on his introversion because she likes it. Here is another interview where interaction seems more uncomfortable; the first minute especially seems hard to watch, they are not so into the situation and it takes some seconds for both to get around each other's heads at first.
Interviewer: So what is the mood of Elon Musk today?
Musk (trying to process): The mood?
I think the second interviewer is Fi valuing.
Don't forget Grimes' video doesn't stand alone. It was his first wife who wrote that he had told her, back when he was still relatively unknown, as if to declare a dispute over, “don't forget I'm the alpha in this relationship”. Which is hilarious on its own because as an isolated phrase it's not clear if there is any weight behind it or if it's just some drowning man's attempt to recover from a wound to his masculinity. What Grimes’ video does is give support to the idea that this tendency to think himself as the one with the right to make the decisions for the ‘pack’ and have the last word is within his normal modus operandi, one that comes at the expense of suppressed intuition (this is, like, basic Strati). He insufflated his own hierarchy and put himself at the top.
@Sol so glad to see you around here again. Care to watch Grimes' video to see how she perceives him and read/listened to what his first wife has said about him and explain how that works with your ILE typing of Musk?
Last edited by Rusal; 12-26-2021 at 06:13 AM.
Wouldn't say to use temperament typing is a valid wise in acknowledging someone's type, but alright.
Also, just to keep in mind that Fe Role might behave likewise, albeit, I'd be care more if you were to explain it by functions and I'll see how it goes...
Just watched the videos you gave and I didn't see the certain "structure" in his monologue/dialogue in those, so I wouldn't say so.
And his deep emphasize towards the what-if or theoretical explanation while trying to assess the balance of things is rather Te-Ni.
I previously typed him as an ILE previously, but apparently, his Ne is demonstrative enough to be typed as an LIE.
His random jokes also eventually reek the need of being "hilarious" to ridicule others who are too stubborn/serious too.
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Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
Pfffft, you can't type Elon Musk. He's basically just a precious metal that China invests in.
Fe role does not behave exactly likewise. LIEs and LSE “positive” remarks respond to their valued functions hence why EIE and LSE might repel each other in conversation or view themselves as a little strange when they hear each other talk in a group regardless of Fe role in LSE: something's not quite right. Fe role establishes that mutual joking can only be taken so far for these types before their internal attitude comes in the way. At the part where Musk talks about the accident with him and Thiel that sent their car spinning in the air before landing to end up wrecked, Sarah makes a reference to the movie Tommy Boy to parody their deadly spiral and Musk laughs and feeds in some other funny comments. It could work differently with Fi valuers, after she mocks the situation a Fi valuer would be a little more likely to personalize the incident and cut through with a more somber comment such as “yeah well it did feel terrible at the time”, as if offended she thinks him dying is a joke, and that would stop her in her tracks a little. That's a detail but this sort of unblocked communication is there for the duration of the video and that explains the type of comments it gets. (ENFj Sarah mimes Musk’s death but looks at him a bit too fondly a bit too quickly and people comment on that too, remember EIEs have problems hiding how they feel with LSIs needing observable proof of how others ponder them) . There's not much I can offer unless you try exposure to Fe-Ti and Fi-Te to get a grasp of interaction, and I think that video is not the latter.
Let's think about this. Very few people are acquainted with Socionics so it'd be within what can be expected that they failed to grasp IE and functions from one or a couple of readings alone without some personal experience. But everyone and their grandmother that watches something with Musk in it, or reads an interview or a book with accounts about what he does cannot not know that he talks about possible ways of going to Mars including shortcomings with the technology and long-term projections in the face of what can be achieved. Everyone can pick on that.
And yet.
Having that as the most blatant presentation card, G.u.lenko makes the jump and types him LSI one full year (probably quite longer than that) before Grimes releases a celluloid portrait of her married life at some point turning into the state of being assiduously besieged by an unemotional knight-king too ready to impose himself on his territory.
Maybe relying on what-ifs and theoretical explanations is not enough to identify valued elements.
Didn't see how this would contradict previous points been said. I'd say the former one seems to explain his TF axes better so I nitpicked it.
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Typology Discord Server
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
@Rusal, you make some brilliant arguments for Musk being LSI over LIE.
To me, he simply doesn’t look LIE.
There are a few other incongruities to him being LIE. There are accounts of him personally firing floor-level individuals when his car line was not working. I can’t imagine an LIE doing that. An LIE might close the entire line if it wasn’t profitable, but I think most LIEs instinctively understand that a business problem is a management problem, not a worker problem.
Musk also recently tweeted to all of his employees, coincidentally just after his personal fortune increased greatly, that they were expected to show up and work all weekend because, he said, it was possible that the company could go bankrupt if the economy tanked.
Sure. It could also go bankrupt if the dinosaurs returned in flying saucers with free teleportation technology.
To me, Musk’s statement reflects a world-view in which the richer he gets, the more that people owe him personal fealty. This is an Aristocratic perspective, not a Democratic one.
i watched closly this time. his skull is very thick but his facial expressions look like LSI
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
High-speed rail/mass public transit seems more Te than his flashy, consumerist solutions to traffic congestion like the hyperloop
I don't know much about skull density, but face shape is similar to Filatova's lady LSI with glasses. According to Filatova, this subset belongs (along with others) to logical subtype. She describes the face as compressed by two parallel vertical lines.
She's ESFj, but the inter-type dynamic would be the same, or close to, duals.
I'm not going to jump into the abyss to vouch for her type because it's harder in her case (I can only maybe infer by her tone and what she says or things she does), but women like her are not Si creative in my experience. Whatever, regardless of her type the point is no Fe makes the Mars voyager a dull boy.
Last edited by Rusal; 01-09-2022 at 03:38 AM.
@timber You got me curious and I had to look up a little bit more on Sarah. I found this video from last year. I watched some of it with the sound on and then with the sound off. I'd still go EIE over ESE if you asked me (although I suppose she could still be classified ESE in Solcionics). The topics she talks about along with intonations and her face (interestingly, it seems there's not a whole lot of variability from culture to culture when it's the same type that's speaking); and then with the sound off and her serious face and how she looks up in the air and her expressions as if to organize what's inside it's an alarm that she is in love with what she likes to contemplate, she likes that state she is. And people like that, from what I’ve been able to gather from people, don’t just disengage from that state and go Si creative. My impression is that after a video like this ends she, who looks fairly social, doesn't rush to the kitchen to bake cookies for her children while she calls her friend to ask her to please let her be the one that's in charge of choosing the cake for a surprise birthday party, nor does she communicate with her kids' school to ask to be involved in organizing the class camping trip or whatever and she definitely doesn't have homemade sponge cake to offer visitors, etc. behaviors social ESEs are more likely to display. She also doesn't look ESE as per Filatova's pictures.
For comparison, a vivid and cliched example of ESE maybe Creative but not unlike the more social ESEs I’ve met.
Last edited by Rusal; 01-09-2022 at 07:36 AM. Reason: mizpellyngs
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