Male ESI's and Female LIE's (ISFj and ENTj)

[The Reality Denialist]

I'm thinking ESI-Se. I might be incorrect:

When I hear things like survival in present and being afraid of loosing security in it I just think it is hallmark of ESI. Hard to understand why they'd dualize with Mr/Ms Risky Business. That is what duals are for. To run over your fears with confidence.

[nanashi]

James Dean (the kid) ESI male

[nanashi]

Two sets of ESI actors




and


ESI In real life these two ESI are friends. The actors play lovers. The clip is kinda pg-13.

[nanashi]

Priyanka might be LIE. She sounds like a fucking general when she speaks. She is sometimes typed ESE and IEE, and she IS playful, but so are LIE, and Ni romance style seems to fit her better than Si or Ne. And she talks about perception and change and cause and effect in ways that don't seem to fit ESE, in my experience. She has an opportunism and awareness of luck that seems LIE over IEE. She's said the thing that she was deeply touched by about this man who was dating her (Jonas) was he was the first man who had who said he was attracted to her ambition. He wasn't put off by it or indifferent to it. She seemed to marvel at that. Vibes as very LIE growing up a woman to care so much about that.

I'm not set on LIE as her type, but it's worth a consideration on this list of LIE women.


Her husband seems like a walking ESI-Se stereotype being a love song crooning introvert. I'm not convinced he is one, but I do see a generally quiet introvert who also performs occasionally. He's very serious. There's a coach vibe with strictness/standards to him (Se creative), and he seems quite into his feels/values. In nonprofessional videos of him, he seems to focus on current, physical reality a lot...face masks, cooking, dogs.

I don't know much about him. I could be misinterpreting. He does have James Dean vibes, tho. Like you can imagine a lot of ESI as quite old men given how serious they are. They can seem like monks.

He has had a very Se characteristic certainty in his attraction to his wife who is herself clearly attracted to him but has repeatedly expressed a typically Ni perception of relationships as highly changeable.

I'd bet he was a 3 in his tritype, too.




and





2016 Dwayne the Rock Johnson talks about Chopra for Time with Ben Hassett:
"Before ever meeting Priyanka Chopra, I had heard her name coming out of Bollywood and was impressed: she was beautiful, talented, had made nearly 50 movies, earned multiple awards—a massive star. When we connected around the time she started Quantico, we immediately hit it off. She has drive, ambition, self-respect, and she knows there’s no substitute for hard work. We always quote the saying “Wear your success like a T-shirt, not like a tuxedo,” and she really does—as big a star as she is, as global as she is, as beautiful as she is, there’s this interesting quality of relatability.

Now I’m lucky enough to be working with her on Baywatch. It’s an amazing time to watch as she pierces the U.S. market. She has an ability to inspire people to do more and achieve more. When I look at her success from the 50,000-ft. view and see everything that Priyanka has already done, is currently doing and has the desire and the bandwidth to do, I can see that her impact is going to be invaluable.

Johnson is an actor and producer and a co-founder of Seven Bucks Productions"



update: yeah, LIE and ESI lookin' good for them:

[nanashi]

Any observations on the two types individually? Or how the dynamic between them supposedly plays out?

I thought it'd be interesting since most Gamma stereotypes seem to assume that ESI's are female and LIE's are male.

If you feel like it, could you change the title? Plurals that aren't possessive or contractions don't need apostrophes. So, it would be "Male ESIs and Female LIEs (ISFj and ENTj)"

It's not life and death, so don't stress yourself to do it

[Adam Strange]

If you feel like it, could you change the title? Plurals that aren't possessive or contractions don't need apostrophes. So, it would be "Male ESIs and Female LIEs (ISFj and ENTj)"

It's not life and death, so don't stress yourself to do it

I use the style "LIE's and ESI's" and I'm aware that the notation is technically incorrect, but I'm trying to change the language in the interest of clarity.

[nanashi]

Personality database has Erica Sinclair as

8w7 837 sp/so LIE

I think that's accurate.


Watching clips, i'd say she obvs needs to develop social contract/diplomacy/ethics-wise in order to be more effective, but she said all the factual, strategic, rallying-people things LIEs think.

[nanashi]

I use the style "LIE's and ESI's" and I'm aware that the notation is technically incorrect, but I'm trying to change the language in the interest of clarity.

how is using the possessive MORE clear when we have a plural that already makes sense?

It's extra clear, given the acronym has capital letters and the 's' is lowercase, that the s is a plural one and not some additional word in the abbreviation.


I'm all for language changing, but we'd be making it LESS clear and more redundant if we changed it that way.



"Making an Abbreviation Plural
Simply add an “s” to an abbreviation to make it plural. (Do not add an apostrophe.)

I work with five other RNs during a typical shift.

Note: RN is a commonly used acronym found in Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary, so it does not need to be introduced. See the “Exceptions to the Rules” section below for more information about commonly used abbreviations."

academicguides.waldenu



newsroom.unl.edu:

"Example:
He graduated in 1992. The nineties were a great decade. He thinks the '90s were overrated."



Oooo! I'm glad you brought this up, Strange, becauses I learned something I didn't know:

"Here’s the relevant portion of The Times’s stylebook entry:

Use apostrophes for plurals of abbreviations that have capital letters and periods: M.D.’s, C.P.A.’s. Also use apostrophes for plurals formed from single letters: He received A’s and B’s on his report card. Mind your p’s and q’s.

But do not use apostrophes for plurals of abbreviations without periods, or for plurals formed from figures: TVs, PCs, DVDs; 1990s, 747s, size 7s."

nytimes.com





It's not life or death. it's just confusing to read. Your brain's waiting for the noun to show up that the adjective (the possessive word) modifies . . . and it never shows.


The dictator's _____ were playing croquet.
The dictators were playing croquet.

Don't worry about the kid's.
The kid's what?
No, don't worry about them.
Oh, you mean 'don't worry about the kids.'

[Adam Strange]

how is using the possessive MORE clear when we have a plural that already makes sense?

It's extra clear, given the acronym has capital letters and the 's' is lowercase, that the s is a plural one and not some additional word in the abbreviation.

I'm all for language changing, but we'd be making it LESS clear and more redundant if we changed it that way.

I view the type designations as strings of nonsense letters, and separating those letters from a possessive "s" with an apostrophe seems to read more easily to me. Your mileage may vary, but I'm thinking

SEIs, ESTjs, etc., are a bit hard to parse if you are just encountering the nomenclature of Socionics. This is my one intentional deviation from proper English, and I don't think the fact that it violates the Time's style definitions is that big a deal.

If my peculiar practice bothers people, they can revel in the idea that they are right and I am wrong.

[sbbds]

Whoa I didn’t even notice the apostrophes this entire time.

[nanashi]

Alexandra Botez

Seems LIE, like Personality Database states.
They have her as 3w4


NSFW





her sis seems like a 7 and maybe a feeler. it's a very enjoyable dynamic.

Update: Personality database has the sister as 7w8 ESTP.

[nanashi]

Whoa I didn’t even notice the apostrophes this entire time.

I know!

My brain kept just pausing weirdly sometimes when I saw the title, and a few weeks ago I realized why, but now after all this time, I again noticed the weird distracted sensation and asked myself why, and I'm just in a very energetic mood and felt like asking.

[nanashi]

I view the type designations as strings of nonsense letters, and separating those letters from a possessive "s" with an apostrophe seems to read more easily to me. Your mileage may vary, but I'm thinking

SEIs, ESTjs, etc., are a bit hard to parse if you are just encountering the nomenclature of Socionics. This is my one intentional deviation from proper English, and I don't think the fact that it violates the Time's style definitions is that big a deal.

If my peculiar practice bothers people, they can revel in the idea that they are right and I am wrong.

Yeah, but if that's only because you're only used to seeing possessives, so it seems familiar and your mind feels weird seeing an 's' for a plural, that's just the psychology of the development of the weird feel. but you're losing the meaning of the symbols if you change it the way you're proposing. the actual FUNCTION of the ' and the s are being lost if you just merge them all. Then there isn't the distinction, and it messes up the structure.


Also, I'm high on joy and thus have a LOT of energy for low priority stuff. Please don't feel judged as deficient or something. I'm not feeling that toward anyone

[Sol]

her sis seems like a 7 and maybe a feeler

ISFP

[nanashi]

ISFP

Sol, do you mean Fi+Se or Si+Fe?

[nanashi]

When I hear things like survival in present and being afraid of loosing security in it I just think it is hallmark of ESI. Hard to understand why they'd dualize with Mr/Ms Risky Business. That is what duals are for. To run over your fears with confidence.

interesting. I was just noticing that I am often allaying survival fears of ESI and LSI but that my confidence abandons me when it comes to the relationship part of life. I can help others with Ne stuff. And I can woo and romance someone. I can date. I can fall in love. But maintaining a relationship? Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! I'd be looking for an ESI to assuage my fears on that.

LIE using opportunism and energy and rallying ppl to do the thingz: https://images.app.goo.gl/LMUabZL2dur4D18w6

gamma NTs peopling: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/461759768036239103/

[nanashi]

I have in the past done that 'try to support and encourage the anxious or Fe-polr person and eventually apply too much pressure and ineptly am too rough' thing. Trying to not do that lately.



Blunt's been typed LSI sometimes. I'm not sure what her type is, but the way Theron interacts with her reminds me of how I interact with a few of the women in my life; and welcoming and 'kind of dirty' is a LIE-ish thing



the crass is strong with this one

[Sol]

Blunt's been typed LSI sometimes.

Anyone can be typed to anything sometimes. Methods are speculative and mostly it's noobs who types famouses on forums.

INFP

[nanashi]

Anyone can be typed to anything sometimes. Methods are speculative and mostly it's noobs who types famouses on forums.

INFP

oh, where is your source on that? I personally know long-term adherents of socionics who talk about the personalities of famous people from generals to actors. And I've seen that for the over a decade I've been reading about socionics.

[nanashi]

4D Ne and 4D Te







you can differentiate these types by facility with Te and respect for Fi or vice versa.

[nanashi]

I haven't typed her myself. She seems relatable, though in how she behaves.

She's typed ENTJ




and

I don't agree with the male guitarist at 9:15 about women going deeper than men. maybe he only sees the most practiced women and very few who are mediocre but sees men mediocre in their playing. But I don't think it's inherent.

[nanashi]

also typed ENTJ guitarist and vocalist

[nanashi]

Luke Wilson

esi dude playing across from his identical, helen hunt.

[nanashi]

esi-se guy. You can hear him singing here:
https://downwrite.com/artist/shawn-h...0created%20the

[nanashi]

Marta Dusseldorp, Australian actor

[nanashi]

what about Lara Pulver as LIE, as well?

I remember her vampire seemed gamma NT.

She plays an ENTJ as Irene in Sherlock.





I'm just toying with the idea.

[nanashi]

Typed LIE 8w7

Really interesting to have a Te-style admittance of sincere, but not mournfully emoted, desire and loneliness and also have this energetic, romantic, adventurey vibe. Nanashi kisses own fingers and throws hand. Mwah. So good.






oh....yeah..ENTj sounds correct; she didn't write it but listen as she presents a comparison study as evidence in for the catchy thesis, an ENTJ classic: 'Lover, you and I don't make sense.'

[nanashi]

Tea Leoni LIE

just prior to the two actors dating


and

[nanashi]

Just got some hints of Katharine Hepburn from Tea Leoni vids.



'drunk' at holiday party researchers, neither of whom can remember how to say Lexington Avenue Bus even though they know the first attempt sounds off.



and

again playing drunk, with her real life partner, Tracy, but this was right before they got together, paralleling the Leoni and Daly video from above, kinda.



Both Leoni and Heburn are listed as enneagram 1s, too, so that's another layer of overlap between the two actors. Pretty funny that the LIE caught feels in this scene and in the next scene explains she wants to go back home to her place iirc but the ESI (?) was thinking she meant she was wanting to be dropped off at her place.

[nanashi]

whoa. communicates like the Jonas kid does.

Hepburn, Leoni, Jonas, and Daly are all very serious, like gammas. Chopra seems to have less enneagram one than the others but DOES seem LIE when you look at her strategic thinking and career and not just short videos where she's entertaining people. She seems to have a lot of enneagram 3 in her tritype.

[Adam Strange]

whoa. communicates like the Jonas kid does.

Hepburn, Leoni, Jonas, and Daly are all very serious, like gammas. Chopra seems to have less enneagram one than the others but DOES seem LIE when you look at her strategic thinking and career and not just short videos where she's entertaining people. She seems to have a lot of enneagram 3 in her tritype.

Skip E Lowe seems like a gay ESE, Tim Daly seems LII-Ti to me, and Amy Van Nostrand seems SEI-Fe to me.

[nanashi]

Skip E Lowe seems like a gay ESE, Tim Daly seems LII-Ti to me, and Amy Van Nostrand seems SEI-Fe to me.

I haven't spent much time on any of these.
I was thinking Si type for Van Nostrand. When people seem so different from me in the way they present regarding being careful about things I'm not, I kinda get a Si vibe.

I am careful about my math and the implications from it when I do write ups. I don't like acting careful in my clothes and interactions, and I don't like seeming careful in them. I would feel sexier and more dynamic if I was charismatic and engaging and charming but wearing dusty fatigues or if I was in corporate clothes but almost uniform-like in nature and with the sleeves rolled up and a cavalier look to it.



....I would have guessed DELTA over Alpha quadra, though, for her, but you might be right. She does get a little charming at one point toward the interviewer. But....I dunno, I normally feel nervous/wary around SEI....maybe the fact I know they are divorced and the video is ancient and that I looked it up to get more data on Daly means I am ignoring her mostly?

ESE works nicely for the interviewer guy. Like I find him interesting and cool and feel protective of him but don't have much interest in anything he's intersted in, which is spot on for how ESE and I are. Wouldn't there be more 'magic' in the interview if there was a dual couple? If Daly were really LII? I don't see him warm to the interviewer like I see most duals warm to each other

And, I think Tim Daly's 5w4 or 4w5. That can make ppl seem like thinkers or intuitives. I don't know about LII for him...he seems sooooo into his values and such, to me. I will double back and evaluate.

I think he definitely comes off as introverted.

Seems more inner judger to me.

Yeah, I like Ji Pe. That leaves us with EII ESI LSI and LII.

You and I see the two least unlike each other out of those four.

It could be the enneagram...and he was raised in a very cerebral family and theater scene which could make someone presume intuitive and thinker.....but....the way he talks about the people he loves...he seems so freaking obsessed with his relationships.

Whenever he tries to get ppl to look at something, it's values, not ideas......

Wait....Maybe I'm conflating his art-iness and his fixation on all his relationships with him being Fi-dom. But I've mostly only seen him when he was brokenhearted over his divorce and his dad's death and being a dad to his kids after missing his own dad. Maybe it's just his trauma.

He's rigid like esi, and I normally see LII being obsessed with ease and comfort and Si and ESI not valuing that. I almost never see fit, taut-looking LII....Maybe his presentation is obscurring his type for me, like I'm being swayed.

[nanashi]

Skip E Lowe seems like a gay ESE, Tim Daly seems LII-Ti to me, and Amy Van Nostrand seems SEI-Fe to me.

I can't stop thinking about this.


It's creeping me out because I'm now getting vibes that remind me of a female LII librarian I used to work with. Is he really LII, maybe, and I missed it?


I need more data.

[spacious]

Priyanka might be LIE. She sounds like a fucking general when she speaks. She is sometimes typed ESE and IEE, and she IS playful, but so are LIE, and Ni romance style seems to fit her better than Si or Ne. And she talks about perception and change and cause and effect in ways that don't seem to fit ESE, in my experience. She has an opportunism and awareness of luck that seems LIE over IEE. She's said the thing that she was deeply touched by about this man who was dating her (Jonas) was he was the first man who had who said he was attracted to her ambition. He wasn't put off by it or indifferent to it. She seemed to marvel at that. Vibes as very LIE growing up a woman to care so much about that.

I paid attention to her recent post in my social media feed instead of scrolling past it because of the argument you laid out that she might be LIE. I read the interview she was sharing about her new movie debuting on Netflix this weekend, White Tiger (shoutout to my book-loving EIE friend for giving me this book as a gift years ago -- it was so interesting and provided good background for when I ended up going to visit her in India a few years later). Interview: https://www.netflixqueue.com/priyank...he-extra-mile/

He has had a very Se characteristic certainty in his attraction to his wife who is herself clearly attracted to him but has repeatedly expressed a typically Ni perception of relationships as highly changeable.

This comparison is so interesting / intriguing to me. Thank you for sharing it.

[nanashi]

I paid attention to her recent post in my social media feed instead of scrolling past it because of the argument you laid out that she might be LIE. I read the interview she was sharing about her new movie debuting on Netflix this weekend, White Tiger (shoutout to my book-loving EIE friend for giving me this book as a gift years ago -- it was so interesting and provided good background for when I ended up going to visit her in India a few years later). Interview: https://www.netflixqueue.com/priyank...he-extra-mile/

This comparison is so interesting / intriguing to me. Thank you for sharing it.

Thanks for your respectful, kind feedback.

[nanashi]

I had to speed it up to playback speed 2x to get through it. This woman seems ENTJ, to me. You can see the 1D Fi peeking out at several points...when she trails off/shortcircuits when asked about what she needs in a relationship and when she talks about disrespect and values and getting into her crush's music interests and preparing for a new roommate. The 4D Ne is there with her various interests and just trying new shit easily. etc

[nanashi]

I haven't watched them besides a few minutes of clips. Does anyone see this and Gamma Rational Duality?


Seems like it to me.

Personality Database has her as ENTJ 731 sp/sx


Anyone know them better?

Their background: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katana...e%20shogunate. "Togame, an ambitious young strategist who seeks to collect 12 legendary swords for the shogunate. Shichika is the son of an exiled war hero and the seventh head of the Kyotouryuu school of fighting who lives on the isolated Fushou Island with his elder sister, Nanami. Togame seeks him out because his bare-handed fighting style means that he will not be corrupted by the power of the swords. Togame, who has been betrayed before, convinces Shichika to accompany her on a mission to locate the Deviant Blades. They embark on a journey together across Edo-era Japan to collect the Deviant Blades, all wielded by formidable opponents." LIE have 'being betrayed' issues due to their 1D Fi according to wikisocion.






pulled out of my strategery when realizing how attracted I am to the introvert guy, yup. Baby Fi weirdness. mortifying weird emo scene; yeah, that checks out; god what a cringe mood. I read LIE and EIE do this volcanic thing (wikisocion).

[nanashi]

LIE character

[nanashi]

Have I included Louise Lombard in this thread, yet?



and
def exhibits affability that Meged-Ovcharov note in the Ni subtype
previous the16types owner, who did a lot of work on analyzing extensively direct quotes, typed Lombard as LIE, as he did actor/voice actor Claudia Black. These two are a LOT alike.





The following is a character being played by the actor, and the character is often thought to be an Ep type with trauma, but I suspect one can see LIE-Ni peeking through, regardless of the character's type. Claudia Black as Vala, childhood-neglected , extraterrestrial mercenary turned Earth Stargate crewmember.

[squark]

@nanashi In the Charlize Theron video with Nicole Kidman and that other person (I didn't catch her name) - I think Charlize looks Se-lead. She has presence. The other two, especially Nicole are shrinking away, and she just takes up so much more space. Charlize reminds me very much of my SEE friends. Just open no-filter and completely herself, always really liked them for those qualities. I think Nicole is Se-polr. She looks like she could be crushed at any moment or blow away in a stiff wind.

Don't get a lot of good examples of SLE vs SEE women so idk if Charlize could be SLE instead, but I don't think LIE is in the running at all. My 2c, do what you want with it.