Associative typology

[Olga]

Please, read my artical. It is not new but just recently has been translated into English, not yet corrected. So, please, excuse mistakes for now. Any comments wellcome!
This is the concept which in some way corresponds with the well known DCNH system which we have recently discussed on this forum. I hope that this article will make the concept of associative socionics more clear for you.

http://www.socionics4you.com/index.php/en/article-1

[SyrupDeGem]

I am attempting to read through this Olga. I know several other forum members are too since it has been referenced in conversation.

I do better with smaller chunks, but i'll get there sooner or later.

[Olga]

Very much appreciated, HelenofTroy
More articles on the way. I would ask everyone who reads the articles to comment on these issues, which are important for me:

1. Different articles are translated by different people or it it was a collaborative work. I would like to know which article sounds the best in English. Translation does depend on the person who translates - his style of writing.

2. I know that my articles are not easy to read. But if you manage to read the whole article you will have a feeling of a clear and structured knowledge aquired. Articles are highly consistent in the logics of presentation even they describe ethical approach in understanding the issues.

3. I woud be interested in your opinions about the concepts in the articles. Any comments and questions are wellcome!

Socionics and Its Capabilities of Boosting Personality Development:
http://www.socionics4you.com/index.php/en/article-3

This article is just an introduction to socionics. Nothing major. Still would be interested in your comments about English ( perfect, good, acceptable and etc.)

[wacey]

Hi Olga, great website full props to you. I have some questions that I wanted to ask, mostly about the temperaments. I just wondered how it is helpful to think of the 16types in these four tempers: ego, superego, superid, id? As in why do they need to follow a mould in the outside world? Is this another way of thinking about the intertypes relationships - for example how an ego type might relate to a super id type? Does the TPE theory have concrete explanations or definitions for what the four egoic pillars actally stand for or represent? And can you explain the theories bias towards some kind of social adgenda for the temperaments? The article seems to state (without going so far as saying) that such an over arching adgenda exsists in the social relmn, and that each temperament is simple playing a part. If the types exsist, they must have exsisted before the advent of modern society (preagricultural) as well as in "primitave" peoples alive today. Secondly, do you think that defining the types along temperment lines strictly could negate the possibility for, well, more possibilities? You stated somewhere that you felt quadra and quadra values were essitially an gulenko artifact. How do you explain this, when TPE tries to formulate similar conclusions as a quadra values theory does? In other words, does the article argue that temperaments fit neatly into the four egoic pillars, complete with all the unique drives and motivations (amazing creativity there btw), when you yourself seem to disagree that the types cannot be lumped together neatly. I just feel painting the types in with "bigger brush strokes", as a TPE theory attempts to do, is a similar approch as gulenko's quadras. I beleive that anything that more closly explains reality is the most trust worthy explanation. On the ground level, real human behavior, could TPE stand up on its own? Or, is it just another way of looking for patterns when prehaps there are none. On a personal note, I can certainly see the word superego could explain much of how my ego has created it lifes expression through my body. The superego is that "voice" that tries to babysit the ego; a little highstrung.

I thinl the real beauty of socionics is the intertype relationships. I think if ego, superego, id, and superid can be used anywhere, it can be used with confidence in explaining intertype relationships. Both is how the information elements and the functions interact with fellow human beings. Simply put, ones superid lets say is made up of Fe and Si (for example), how will that individuals superid interact with anothers ego, whos first and second channel is Si Fi respectively? For practical reasons, we might never be able to know how the aqctaul inner and outer behavior of those two individuals will play out.

In the end, I think TPE is a very nice amalgamation of all these semmingly different ideas of personality. It does tries to do what phylosiphers have done for centuries, boil down human ego, human behavior, to its base essences.

Thank you again Olga, lots of questions asking essentially the same thing. I am still learning here. Sorry for the spelling mistakes, I am typing with an xbox and xbox controller.

[Olga]

Hi, Wacey! Thank you for reading the article and for interesting thoughts and many questions. I will take my time to answer them as there is a lot of deep thought in your questions and they go futher sometime than I used to think. Whenever we discover something interesting in reality it opens something but then you have much more to discover again.

Hi Olga, great website full props to you. I have some questions that I wanted to ask, mostly about the temperaments. I just wondered how it is helpful to think of the 16types in these four tempers: ego, superego, superid, id? As in why do they need to follow a mould in the outside world? Is this another way of thinking about the intertypes relationships - for example how an ego type might relate to a super id type?

It is helpful for seeing not subtypes like in the DCNH system but for seeing and defferentiating the types themselves. Temperaments may coinside with the TPE and DCNH or may be not. If you will base your judgment just on the temperament then it is not certain to type the person into one of the four groups. You need more criteria which is linked to typology and to more general diffrences between the 16 types.
In the typology these general characteristics are not the temperaments exactly but 3 basic dichotomies - extro-intro, rational- irrational and statisc -dynamics. Temperaments are associated with this four groups as a tendency but you can not base your decision on what group belongs the person just by the temperament. You need other criteira which must be also linked like temperament to physiology- because we say that type is inherited.
Sorry, need to go now and try to answer on Monday.

[Olga]

Actually there is nothing in the theory so far which would answer the question how Ego-type might relate to Superid -type. I never thought about that this way. I conceptualised it as psychodynamics, as a balance of different types of energy. As regards to relationships I have got no idea what is going to be like. if you have got any ideas- wellcome.

The reason could be partly in the way I look at the interrelationship theory in socioncis. Being Fi-type myself I consider it to be very primitive schema of the relationship between the types. For some people who is not strong on Fi it could be helpful to a certain degree. I mean the way the intertype relationships are presented in socionics. Being a psychologist I know how many factors influence the relationships. I think the socionists never seriously consider the other factors. So I am sceptical about it.

Ok, may be some answers do actually exist in the theory in terms of profiles or 6 oppositions. Does it ring the bell?

[Olga]

Hi Olga, great website full props to you. I have some questions that I wanted to ask, mostly about the temperaments. I just wondered how it is helpful to think of the 16types in these four tempers: ego, superego, superid, id? As in why do they need to follow a mould in the outside world? Is this another way of thinking about the intertypes relationships - for example how an ego type might relate to a super id type?

From the perspective of profiles I would say that all the types compensate and support each other on one hand and fight for the domination on the other hand. It will depend on the situaton the character of relationship between them. The people of one type have a lot in common - values of the type. So we can expect that there will be a stronger degree of atraction and mutual understanding between them.

Does the TPE theory have concrete explanations or definitions for what the four egoic pillars actally stand for or represent?

There is another article where I describe in more detail where TPEs come from. I hope it will make sense for you. If not, then, please, ask. Look at the very beginning - introduction.

http://socionics4you.com/index.php/en/article-2

And can you explain the theories bias towards some kind of social adgenda for the temperaments? The article seems to state (without going so far as saying) that such an over arching adgenda exsists in the social relmn, and that each temperament is simple playing a part. If the types exsist, they must have exsisted before the advent of modern society (preagricultural) as well as in "primitave" peoples alive today.

Do not understand the very first queston: social adgenda for the temperaments. What does it mean?
I believe that TPEs existed always - thats true. And what about it ?

Secondly, do you think that defining the types along temperment lines strictly could negate the possibility for, well, more possibilities?

I understand that this is the question about the limits of the associative theory. First of all I woud not wish to associate the TPEs with temperaments because it is just one of the physiological criteria. Yes I refer to temperaments only to make analogy for the connecton of TPEs with physiology - something stable as type.
Secondly, I do not see how the TPEs theory can limit the possibilites of exploring the typology further. My argument is very opposite: AT(associative theory) open the gates for socionics into psychology and psychotherapy as no one other theory does in socionics today.

[Olga]

You stated somewhere that you felt quadra and quadra values were essitially an gulenko artifact. How do you explain this, when TPE tries to formulate similar conclusions as a quadra values theory does? In other words, does the article argue that temperaments fit neatly into the four egoic pillars, complete with all the unique drives and motivations (amazing creativity there btw), when you yourself seem to disagree that the types cannot be lumped together neatly.

Ok, we need to get to the meaning of what is said here. TPEs ralate to teh basic dichotomies - they are in fact the part of typology themselves. That is why you have got not just the description of the TPE -groups but also the very basic dichotomies. You can determine the TPE either by description or by the test - by the dichotomies. In case of quadras you can only associate it with the descriptions. Those descriptions are not based on any criteria like dichotomies and so you can not check the belonging to the quadra unless you actually type the person.

That is why I do give more importance to TPE - groups which are directly connected to the 16 types on the basis of the same dichotomies.

I am not sure if I answered your question?

[Olga]

How do you explain this, when TPE tries to formulate similar conclusions as a quadra values theory does?

We need to look into conclusions.The quadra theory suggests that the people of the same qaudra have the same values nd that is why they communicate better and better for each other as regrds to work and etc. Yes? Well, the TPE- theory does not say that the people of the same group are better for each other for every possible ocasion in life but that they are similar on the basis of similar qualities origignated in the basic dichotomies. The point is that it is easier to type the person into TPE-group than into the quadra. The criteria for the quadra is not clear cut as for TPE group and similarity among the types are more obvious than in the quadra.
Does it make sense?

In other words, does the article argue that temperaments fit neatly into the four egoic pillars, complete with all the unique drives and motivations (amazing creativity there btw), when you yourself seem to disagree that the types cannot be lumped together neatly.

I do not understand tha last bit without context: on what occasion I said that?

I just feel painting the types in with "bigger brush strokes", as a TPE theory attempts to do, is a similar approch as gulenko's quadras. I beleive that anything that more closly explains reality is the most trust worthy explanation.

The general level of typing was needed in the socionics theory. Usually the typing starts straight with model A and this is a rather detailed level. It is more rational to start with a bigger picture first and then to proceed to more detailed level. If you start to determione the quadra first then you have to have a clear cut criteria so that you can be sure that the person belongs definetly to this quadra and not to the other. There is no clear cut criteria for quadras - it is more o less the level of guessing. Yes or no? It is subjective opinion whcih can not be checked.

However if you start to type with TPE - level you can actually check by at least two dichotomies and the third one suppose to be as a check for the last two. You can check for extro-intro, rational -irrational and statics -dynamics. And so we do check - we have tests! So we can say ther is a massive difference between using quadra theory or TPE -theory for typing.

[Olga]

On the ground level, real human behavior, could TPE stand up on its own? Or, is it just another way of looking for patterns when prehaps there are none. On a personal note, I can certainly see the word superego could explain much of how my ego has created it lifes expression through my body. The superego is that "voice" that tries to babysit the ego; a little highstrung.

Yes of course it can stand on its own and I a happy to teach you to differentiate TPEs in art, music and many other things ...

I thinl the real beauty of socionics is the intertype relationships. I think if ego, superego, id, and superid can be used anywhere, it can be used with confidence in explaining intertype relationships. Both is how the information elements and the functions interact with fellow human beings. Simply put, ones superid lets say is made up of Fe and Si (for example), how will that individuals superid interact with anothers ego, whos first and second channel is Si Fi respectively? For practical reasons, we might never be able to know how the aqctaul inner and outer behavior of those two individuals will play out.

Well, it all depends on many different factors which are situational and in soe ways it will be not much different from the interacton of the types. The new theory does not tell much new or different in this sense. I am not sure if I understand your question actually. Fe +Si = ESE and Si+Fe= SEI. So you question is how these types relate to each other ?

The TPE- theory describes the psychodynamics of the person or situation. For example, I have got a client, who has a problem. I am listening to him and can say where is the disbalance - between what TPE and which TPE needs more attention. Or it can be situation associated with TPE profile. Does it make sense?

In the end, I think TPE is a very nice amalgamation of all these semmingly different ideas of personality. It does tries to do what phylosiphers have done for centuries, boil down human ego, human behavior, to its base essences. Thank you again Olga, lots of questions asking essentially the same thing. I am still learning here. Sorry for the spelling mistakes, I am typing with an xbox and xbox controller.

Thanks again for you questons. I do like crititcs and would be happy to consider all arguments for and against the theory.

[Olga]

Hello to all!
I would like to invite you to take part in typing by colour preferences - we determine the psychodynamics which is telling us about the nature of the persone related to his physiology and type. The topic is in Russian at the moment but it is easy to translate by Google and understand as well as to take part in analysis of clients answers to the questions. If you are interested I would be happy to open the same topic on my forum in English. Please, let me know!

http://socionics4you.com/index.php/f...-3----?lang=ru

[Absurd]

Hello to all!
I would like to invite you to take part in typing by colour preferences[...]

How many colours do you have already?

[Olga]

How many colours do you have already?

Thanks for asking. We analyse all colours. Colour typing is just one of the criteria in typing by psychophysiological qualities. Compared to the traditional approach in typing personality with colour typing you have the same experience: sometimes the data perfectly fits to the model and sometimes it is not clear evident. That is why it is never a good idea to rely just on one type of criteria. Some people know very well what they like in relation to colours and music and some never thought about colours and do not bother about music.

I would suggest to start with the providing the answers to these questions so that later you would not be biased and confused about your personal colour preferences. Give it a go!

1. Imagine a rainbow of colors or palettes. What shades and colours do you prefer: light pastel, bright / saturated or dark?


2. Name 3 favorite colors in the order - which pop up in your head if you never thought about your colour preferences before and have got no idea what colours you may like. However if you did pay attention to you cooour preferences before then let your imagination flow and describe your favorite colors and color combination as you like.

3. What are the colors that you dislike the most?

4. Choose one of the color combinations that are most pleasant to your eye:

1. red and emerald green
2. pink and light green
3. yellow and purple
4. blue and orange
5. White and black.
6. beige and blue

5. If you do not like any one combination, try to choose one that you percieve as the most unpleasant.

If you answer these questions I will be able to analyse it from the perspective of the Butterfly model. However, if you are familiar with my approach you can do it yourself. And then we shall consider the replies of other people to the same questions.

[InvisibleJim]

@Olga

1. Imagine a rainbow of colors or palettes. What shades and colours do you prefer: light pastel, bright / saturated or dark?

I like dark colours, but I build spreadsheets with pastel shades.

2. Name 3 favorite colors in the order - which pop up in your head if you never thought about your colour preferences before and have got no idea what colours you may like. However if you did pay attention to you cooour preferences before then let your imagination flow and describe your favorite colors and color combination as you like.

Blue
Red
Green

3. What are the colors that you dislike the most?

Pink, not a fan
Orange is a bit of a crap colour.

4. Choose one of the color combinations that are most pleasant to your eye

1. red and emerald green

Blacks, pastel reds and white with brown wood has always been a favourite.

5. If you do not like any one combination, try to choose one that you percieve as the most unpleasant.

3. yellow and purple

[Olga]

Thank you, InvisibleJim! Let's see what information I can get about your type from you reply.

1. Imagine a rainbow of colors or palettes. What shades and colours do you prefer: light pastel, bright / saturated or dark?

I like dark colours, but I build spreadsheets with pastel shades.

Superid-Superego, introversion.

You mentioned dark and pastel. Everyone most likely to build spreadsheets with pastel shades, so we do not get this answer very serious. Dark and pastel - are the colours wich are associated with introversion and precisly: dark Superid and pastel Superego.


2. Name 3 favorite colors in the order - which pop up in your head if you never thought about your colour preferences before and have got no idea what colours you may like. However if you did pay attention to you colour preferences before then let your imagination flow and describe your favorite colors and color combination as you like.

Blue
Red
Green

Superid - Ego- Id. Dynamics, intuition.
Interesting is that blue and red belong to dynamic combination while blue and green associated with intuition. Red - emotions and Ego.

3. What are the colors that you dislike the most?

Pink, not a fan
Orange is a bit of a crap colour.

Fi and Te are rejected (ethical Superego and logical Ego). So I can assume that you are likely not an ethical type and not an an Ego-type.
Superego (-) and Ego (-).

4. Choose one of the color combinations that are most pleasant to your eye

1. red and emerald green

+ Extroversion

Blacks, pastel reds and white with brown wood has always been a favourite.
Pastel red means that the bright red is not in a favour. Blacks, white and brown - classic cmobinations which suit equally good for logical types and introverted types.

5. If you do not like any one combination, try to choose one that you percieve as the most unpleasant.

3. yellow and purple

Two things I would like to mention here: it could be the rejection of statics and sensorics. Precisly this is the combination of Se + Ti.

Now I need to make sense of all your data which partly controversial in nature but I need to get some trends from it. I would draw the conclusion that you have a strong intution and logic. You favour the intuitive colours and reject the sensorics ( bright jellow or orange). You accept brown which is the combination of yellow and black and which is related to introverted sensorics. You do not like pink and red is preferred in pastel shades.

I would say that slightly more evidence for introversion and Superid as a leading TPE. The profile TPE either introverted or dynamic. Ofcourse this informaton must be considered as a part of other data such as temperament and other preferences in music and art.

[anndelise]

1. Imagine a rainbow of colors or palettes. What shades and colours do you prefer: light pastel, bright / saturated or dark?

Depends on the context.

For wearing, I prefer Autumn based colors which includes Soft(muted)-Autumn, Deep-Autumn, and Warm-Autumn as seen in the chart here:
http://www.thechicfashionista.com/se...-analysis.html


This has to do with which colors work well with my own physical coloring.

For neutrals (base coloring), I prefer a rich chocolate brown with warm tones to it. (Works awesome with the Autumn coloring above. When using 'brighter' colors (like pinks, blues, etc) I prefer them to have a brownish tone to them, which has the added benefit of reducing the color's brightness.

If I were to decorate my place, I would prefer a light creamy wall paint rather than the typical white; deep brown naturally wooded furniture; and some of the colorings from the autumn chart above and/or from the southwest desert palette (which I grew up with).

Also, from the following chart, I would more likely choose bases from the barren&arid colors with wetland colors as a secondary and just a bare hint of "developed" color:

(Note: This chart also gives an idea of what I mean by preferring soft(muted) colors.
Some further examples:






This one is a little more colorful than I prefer, but still fits as an example of the Soft(muted) Desert colors I like.


I think it would be interesting to make a color wheel of the colors I like. This one doesn't have any blue, and I'm not much into yellow, but close enough:


Another pic that is a bit too busy colorwise for me to want around me regularly, but if this were greatly simplified in design, it would fit with what I find soothing.


Metal-wise I would use bronze and copper or a darkly stained bronzy steel metal (I have no idea what it is, I just tend to like it when I'm given the choice of stainless steel vs this for things like curtain rods and such).

2. Name 3 favorite colors in the order - which pop up in your head if you never thought about your colour preferences before and have got no idea what colours you may like. However if you did pay attention to you cooour preferences before then let your imagination flow and describe your favorite colors and color combination as you like.

See #1.
Wearing: base is rich chocolatey brown, autumny or deserty secondary, with just a hint of another color like a light catching deep blue or violet pendant.

3. What are the colors that you dislike the most?

I don't like bright or heavily saturated colors, like the colors on the left half of the Light-Spring and Clear-Spring side of that Color chart above.
I can't stand busily colored items either. All that color hurts my eyes and my head. (like the color schemes in usa mexican restaurants) Stuff like:

and

4. Choose one of the color combinations that are most pleasant to your eye:

1. red and emerald green
2. pink and light green
3. yellow and purple
4. blue and orange
5. White and black.
6. beige and blue

Of those choices, I would have to go with beige and blue, though really, it depends on the shades/hue/whatever involved.

I admit though that some pictures that follow the black and white scheme with some red in key places I like for some reason. Like I had a clear black and clear white pictures of a woman with red lips blowing smoke off a recently fired gun...it also had a heart shaped hole and an attempt at looking like broken glass, as if she had shot the picture frame with her gun.

5. If you do not like any one combination, try to choose one that you percieve as the most unpleasant.

The most unpleasant of those 6 choices? Blue and Orange...blech. I don't know if there's a possible shade combination of those two that would look good together to me. No, I take that back...a sunset or sunrise is usually gorgeous. (Edited to add: i'm not at all a fan of red and green together.)(edited again to add: except during harvest time...lush red strwaberries peeking out through green foilage...yum! lol)

If you answer these questions I will be able to analyse it from the perspective of the Butterfly model. However, if you are familiar with my approach you can do it yourself. And then we shall consider the replies of other people to the same questions.

I'm not familiar with your color theory. How much context do you consider?
For example, when I feel active and energized, I'll choose warmer colors like muted shades of orange, yellow, or red. When I feel relaxed, or want to feel relaxed, I choose cooler shades such as shades of blue and green. When I'm feeling creative, I might toss in a bit of purplish colors. (Though primarily I go for browns and relaxed colors rather than energetic colors.)

[squirreltual]

1. Imagine a rainbow of colors or palettes. What shades and colours do you prefer: light pastel, bright / saturated or dark?

Strong but not bright colors.

2. Name 3 favorite colors in the order - which pop up in your head if you never thought about your colour preferences before and have got no idea what colours you may like. However if you did pay attention to you cooour preferences before then let your imagination flow and describe your favorite colors and color combination as you like.

Orange - Red
Black
Green


3. What are the colors that you dislike the most?

Dark brown, light blue.

4. Choose one of the color combinations that are most pleasant to your eye

red and emerald green - this one definitely

I also really like black + gold/orange.

5. If you do not like any one combination, try to choose one that you percieve as the most unpleasant.

Beige and blue

[InvisibleJim]

I would say that slightly more evidence for introversion and Superid as a leading TPE. The profile TPE either introverted or dynamic. Ofcourse this informaton must be considered as a part of other data such as temperament and other preferences in music and art.

Pretty cool, thanks Olga!

[fairylights]

1. Imagine a rainbow of colors or palettes. What shades and colours do you prefer: light pastel, bright / saturated or dark?

Dark, rich, stark colors. Jewel tones.

2. Name 3 favorite colors in the order - which pop up in your head if you never thought about your colour preferences before and have got no idea what colours you may like. However if you did pay attention to you cooour preferences before then let your imagination flow and describe your favorite colors and color combination as you like.

Red, black, white. One of my favorite combinations put together as well, especially red and white.

3. What are the colors that you dislike the most?

Poopy shades of brown and yellow, neon shades, especially neon green.

4. Choose one of the color combinations that are most pleasant to your eye:

Blue and orange, but black and white is a close second.

5. If you do not like any one combination, try to choose one that you percieve as the most unpleasant.

Red and green, I guess.

[Olga]

Thank you very much to all for the replies!
I am very pleased to realise that there are socionists on this forum who is interested in the same question and explore the connectons between psychology, physiology and typolgy. The colors were already explored weel enough from the perspective of psychology (e.g. Max Lusher) but not as such from the perspective of the personality typology.

I will look in detail at all information you have posted a bit later today. At the moment I would like to give you a simple key for the interpretation of results so that you could try to analizy your colour preferences yourself with my further help.

Interpretation key for color preferences of the Butterfly model

Interpretation of the dichotomies

1.Exstraversion-introversion

Exstraversion - bright, vivid colors - there are only 4 of them- red, orange, yellow and green - all colors are warm.
Introversion - light and dark, cool colors - pink (+ lilac), purple, blue, light blue, white and black.
In the model Butterfly extraversion is the top wings (colors) of the Butterfly, introversion - bottom wings (colors).

Bright colors - Ego and Id,
pastel - Superego
dark - Superid

2. Rationality - irrationality.

Rationality [b] left [/ b] wing of the Butterfly - 5 colors - and their possible shades - red, orange, pink, purple and white.
Irrationality [b] right [/ b] wing of the Butterfly - yellow, green, cyan, blue, and black.

3. Dynamics - statics.

Dynamics [b] (diagonal) [/ b] - a sharp contrast of cold colors (blue, cyan, black) with warm colors (red, orange, raspberry).
Static [b] (opposite diagonal) [/ b] less sharp konrast cold (pink, lilac, purple, white) with warm (yellow, green).

TPE-blocks of the model

Ego - orange, red
Superid - light blue, turquoise, blue, black and all dark shades
Id - yellow, green,
Superego - pink, lilac, purple, white, grey and all pastel shades.

TPE profiles

Extraverted (Ego-Id or Id-Ego)

Introverted (Superego-Superid or Superid-Superego)

Rational (Ego-Superego or Superego- Ego)

Irrational (Superid-Id or Id - Superid)

Dynamic (Ego-Superid or Superid-Ego)

Static (Id - Superego or Superego -Id).

The meaning and description of the TPEs and TPE prifiles are in my articles. I am happy to listen to all suggestions and critics.

In the analysis of color preferences is not always possible, but desirable to point the dominant TPE ( first place) and the second place - compensating TPE, for example, Superego-Superid or Superid-Superego. If you are not sure what TPE dominates, then just tell me name of the profile: dynamic, introverted, etc.

[Olga]

Hello, Anndelise! Very nice and interesting post you wrote about the colors. You are aware of the colors and they affect your (important for you).
I see that introversion is very strong and statics. So I would suggest to look for your type among static types and most likely Superego types (pastel colors)
The profile most likely a static one: Superego- Id. However, it could be also an introverted too: Superego-Superid.
It seems to me that the TPE Ego is the the weakest point.
As regards to functions I am not sure between sensorics and intuition. May be sensorics. Basically, such a strong attention to colors make me think that you are most likely a sensorical type. To decide between logics and ethics could be logic- due to the purple color in your choice and some of the patterns you like. Please, let me know, what type do you think you are and what are usually the results of the tests for you?

[Korpsy Knievel]

Whichever way the wind blows...

[anndelise]

Hello, Anndelise! Very nice and interesting post you wrote about the colors. You are aware of the colors and they affect your (important for you).
I see that introversion is very strong and statics. So I would suggest to look for your type among static types and most likely Superego types (pastel colors)
The profile most likely a static one: Superego- Id. However, it could be also an introverted too: Superego-Superid.
It seems to me that the TPE Ego is the the weakest point.
As regards to functions I am not sure between sensorics and intuition. May be sensorics. Basically, such a strong attention to colors make me think that you are most likely a sensorical type. To decide between logics and ethics could be logic- due to the purple color in your choice and some of the patterns you like. Please, let me know, what type do you think you are and what are usually the results of the tests for you?

I'll be honest, Olga, I don't grasp Associative Typology, nor much of what you wrote above.
Personally, I would greatly hesitate before typing someone based on the colors they like, as there are many things that go into such a thing, including evolutionary responses, visual abilities, associated memories, cultural symbolisms, etcetc. However, I did not respond to criticise your theory, I was curious. Thank you, and good luck with your theory. Oh, and if it helps you any, I have felt for about 7 years now that NeFi (Model A) describes me best, both good and bad, heh.

[Beautiful sky]

Introversion - light and dark, cool colors - pink (+ lilac), purple, blue, light blue, white and black.

Oh, me in my avatar
You noticed!

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

1. Imagine a rainbow of colors or palettes. What shades and colours do you prefer: light pastel, bright / saturated or dark?

A combination of bright/saturated with dark.

2. Name 3 favorite colors in the order - which pop up in your head if you never thought about your colour preferences before and have got no idea what colours you may like. However if you did pay attention to you cooour preferences before then let your imagination flow and describe your favorite colors and color combination as you like.

Midnight Blue - by far my favourite
Yellow - in small amounts, never on its own.
Cyan - to complement the two above

3. What are the colors that you dislike the most?

Maroon (my least favourite), Brown and Red

4. Choose one of the color combinations that are most pleasant to your eye:

4. blue and orange

5. If you do not like any one combination, try to choose one that you percieve as the most unpleasant.

Red and Emerald Green would be the most unpleasant of them, but not especially so

[Olga]

I'll be honest, Olga, I don't grasp Associative Typology, nor much of what you wrote above.
Personally, I would greatly hesitate before typing someone based on the colors they like, as there are many things that go into such a thing, including evolutionary responses, visual abilities, associated memories, cultural symbolisms, etcetc. However, I did not respond to criticise your theory, I was curious. Thank you, and good luck with your theory. Oh, and if it helps you any, I have felt for about 7 years now that NeFi (Model A) describes me best, both good and bad, heh.

Thank you, Anndelise, for you honest opinion. I would like to explain that what we are doing here - is not exactly typing into one of the 16 types. I just show how you can interprest color preferences related to personality typology. color typing is not used on its own for typing people and used mainly for understaning the general direction of personality - the one fo the four group - basic group of the personality typology.

We use color typing as a vaulable non-verbal criteria related to psychophysiology and consider it in relation to other criteria which is commonly used for typing.

Being a rational type I am very carefull in typing and usually check everything in detal a few times. I would rather name only a few evidence which I am sure that push the results which I am not sure about. I consider many factors suach as the results of many socionics tests and the opinion of the person himself for the higher degree of objectivity of results. And if I am not sure i would rather say that then lie about me knowing the type of the person. So I hope that now you understand me better now. This thread is like a tester session so that everyone interested will had a glance at how I use my color model. But in fact the questionnaire is much bigger -I do not use now other importand criteria just not to take attention from the color- typing.

And so...if you are the Huxley (IEE) then I did not miss the fact that you are a static type! Your colors were predominantly pastel which made me think that you may be a Superego type with the Id being a subtype Energy. I said that I was not sure about sensorics and intuition because the information was controversial as regards to yellow and green shades.
Saying that I pointed to introversion which could mean in fact that you are not a very bright extrovert - that extroversion is not as strong as statics. And if I would consider this infromation in conjunction with our answers for other questions I would come to understand your true type anyway.
Thanks for taking part in this thread!

[Korpsy Knievel]

Olga, are your parents carnies?

[anndelise]

Saying that I pointed to introversion which could mean in fact that you are not a very bright extrovert - that extroversion is not as strong as statics. And if I would consider this infromation in conjunction with our answers for other questions I would come to understand your true type anyway.

In my case, I am actually very much an extrovert. However, I also regularly deal with instabilities of mood and emotional reactiveness as well as PTSD related issues. To aid my recovery in these matters, I force myself to spend significant time trying to find ways of grounding myself, of becoming a little more stable. One relevant method is to avoid bright, clear colors since they tend to further activate an already active limbic system.

But, since you say you do not limit your typing of people to just the color/music theory, then perhaps the above info would have been taken into consideration.

I am glad to hear that your method is not so limited as I feared.

Thanks for taking part in this thread!

I hope that I was able to provide helpful insight regarding possible applications of the color portion of your theory.

[Oaky]

You see, I like this kind of associative psychology which depends on all these sensory connections to one thing or another. It can give an idea of where the minds of people mostly explore but then it can also be subject to mood so it'd be very good to find someone in a certain state of mood and compare it with others in a similar mindset. This has potential but a lot of ins and outs. Of course, bringing about others to perceive someone as a certain color or another would be an interesting experiment to undertake. Lots of things here and there.

[Olga]

1. Imagine a rainbow of colors or palettes. What shades and colours do you prefer: light pastel, bright / saturated or dark?

Strong but not bright colors.

Not sure how to understand it. Ok. let it be rich colours and then -extraversion!

2. Name 3 favorite colors in the order - which pop up in your head if you never thought about your colour preferences before and have got no idea what colours you may like. However if you did pay attention to you cooour preferences before then let your imagination flow and describe your favorite colors and color combination as you like.

Orange - Red
Black
Green

Ego-Superid -Id

3. What are the colors that you dislike the most?

Dark brown, light blue.

-Superid (roughly: Si,Ni)

4. Choose one of the color combinations that are most pleasant to your eye

red and emerald green - this one definitely

Extroversion

I also really like black + gold/orange.

Irrationalityand possilbly dynamics


5. If you do not like any one combination, try to choose one that you percieve as the most unpleasant.

Beige and blue

- Introversion in rejecton

Very strong extraversion, weaker statics and balanced irrationality-rationlaity. There is some controversion in the answers so I would be careful in decideing upon the leading TPE just based on these answers but I can say that you aer a definete extravert and the TPE profile is extraverted. Red and orange suggest leading Te +Fe, so I would not know are you ethical or logical type. But I would think that in connection with black it is pointing to dynamics.
Then you said that you also like black and yellow - this is a sign of irrationality. I have to think carefully because this factor is not consistent with leading Ego. Irrationality plus dynamics leads me to Superid which is present in your color preferences ( black) but I can not go that root as you are a definete extravert. So I stuck with extraversion, dynamics and possble irrationality which do not fit together. That is why I will just say that extraversion is strong with possible leading Ego and compensating Id.

I would not decide upon intution and sensorics because in your preference there is green (Ne) and in combination with black -yellow (Se). Green is one of our favourite colors and light blue is disliked (Ni). So I would think if you would be an Id type or staic type then Ne is correct for you. If you would be an Ego-type -Ne would be not correct.
I would not be sure about logics an ethics either because red is Fe and orange Te. However taking into consideration other criteria related to psychophysiological qualities I woud be able to understand your type better.
Thank you for taking part!

[Olga]

Olga, are your parents carnies?

What maid you think that?
I'm a Synesthete (http://inkfish.fieldofscience.com/20...rong-with.html)
"Like victims of catastrophic head injuries, people with synesthesia often appear in neuroscience papers identified only by their initials to illustrate the mysteries of the brain. But synesthesia's not a freak occurrence. It's estimated that 2-4% of people have abnormal connections between their senses. The condition may not be an accident at all, but a trait that evolution has retained for a reason".

[Korpsy Knievel]

I'm a Synesthete

Nearly everyone online is an independently wealthy synesthete with an arm-sized penis. Explain what synesthesia has to do with deducing types and how techniques dependent on it are transferable to/usable by non-synesthetic persons.

[Olga]

1. Imagine a rainbow of colors or palettes. What shades and colours do you prefer: light pastel, bright / saturated or dark?

Dark, rich, stark colors. Jewel tones.

+ dynamics

2. Name 3 favorite colors in the order - which pop up in your head if you never thought about your colour preferences before and have got no idea what colours you may like. However if you did pay attention to you cooour preferences before then let your imagination flow and describe your favorite colors and color combination as you like.

Red, black, white. One of my favorite combinations put together as well, especially red and white.
+Dynamics.
+Rationality, Fe

3. What are the colors that you dislike the most?

Poopy shades of brown and yellow, neon shades, especially neon green.

Did not understand "Poopy shades ", - sensorics, - Ne

- Irrationality and Id

4. Choose one of the color combinations that are most pleasant to your eye:

Blue and orange, but black and white is a close second.

+dynamics

5. If you do not like any one combination, try to choose one that you percieve as the most unpleasant.

Red and green, I guess.
- Extraversion

I would suggest dynamic profile Ego-Superid, dynamics is the strongest. Extroversion is balanced. Rationality is evident and rational profile is possible too. Ethics is more likely than logics and intuition is more likely than sensorics.

[Olga]

Nearly everyone online is an independently wealthy synesthete with an arm-sized penis. Explain what synesthesia has to do with deducing types and how techniques dependent on it are transferable to/usable by non-synesthetic persons.

I did not mean anything of that. I thought I should say something like you- something out of the blue - like my parents are carnies.

[Olga]

You see, I like this kind of associative psychology which depends on all these sensory connections to one thing or another. It can give an idea of where the minds of people mostly explore but then it can also be subject to mood so it'd be very good to find someone in a certain state of mood and compare it with others in a similar mindset. This has potential but a lot of ins and outs. Of course, bringing about others to perceive someone as a certain color or another would be an interesting experiment to undertake. Lots of things here and there.

I agree.

[Olga]

1. [B]Imagine a rainbow of colors or palettes. What shades and colours do you prefer: light pastel, bright / saturated or dark?

A combination of bright/saturated with dark.

Possible extraversion, dynamics or irrationlity. Dark represent Superid.

[B]2. Name 3 favorite colors in the order - which pop up in your head if you never thought about your colour preferences before and have got no idea what colours you may like. However if you did pay attention to you cooour preferences before then let your imagination flow and describe your favorite colors and color combination as you like.

Midnight Blue - by far my favourite
Yellow - in small amounts, never on its own.
Cyan - to complement the two above
+ Irrationality
+intuition
+Superid and Id

[B]3. What are the colors that you dislike the most?
Maroon (my least favourite), Brown and Red

Maroon - browny red. Well...this colour could be considered as dirty red, not clear and not bright. It can be considered as dark red and in this case it is rejection of introversion: -Superid. As to red colour in general, this is the rejection of ethics (Fe).

4. [B]Choose one of the color combinations that are most pleasant to your eye:

4. blue and orange
+dynamics

5. [B]If you do not like any one combination, try to choose one that you percieve as the most unpleasant.

Red and Emerald Green would be the most unpleasant of them, but not especially so- Extroversion

Lots of controversy in the answers but what is surely evident - Irrationality. I see the strong intuition but I can not decide which of the irrational TPEs it is closer. Blue is the intuition of Superid however I have met previously ILEs who likes blue or light blue rahter than green. Based on your answers I would consider as a possibility as a leading TPE -Superid or Id because these are both irrational TPEs.
I would be careful about deciding on logics-ethics. There is slightly more evidence for logics: rejection of ethics (maroon) and the combination of colors blue and orange suggest Te.
So I would just suggest irrationality and intuion as leading and all other information must be considered in the light of all other criteria.
Thank you for taking part.

[Olga]

Would anybody be interested in analysing the answers of other people in relation to their colour preferences and type? I have the very simple examples of the answers for analysis. Later on I could extend the examples to make them more complex but more intersting for analysis.

[Beautiful sky]

Olga, color selection is not type related; it is influenced by too many factors some of which are

1. the person may have extraverted friends who help out in choosing clothes for the person
2. the person's own society may dictate the preferred colors that society makes available to it's members, for instance many near eastern countries, like India, it's not uncommon for all women to wear brightly colored clothes.
3. the person may choose clothes for other reasons, such as work/job, so may naturally conduct a wardrobe that is "outside of their natural type preference" if there is such a thing in relation to color.

[Olga]

Hi, Maritsa, I understand what you mean. AS many factors as you said influence the personality as well - culture, environment and etc. However, we do consider that personlity type is universal. That means tha all those many factors cannot obstruct the typology. Typology is linked to genetics and physiology of the person such as a type of nervous system or temperament. The person may change his character but certain things linked to physioolgy like temperament and type - stay the same. than means that we all have something in our nautre wich is changing and stable at the same time.

You may be in a mood to wear reds today and blacks to morrow but it dose not mean that there are no colors you prefer generally and like them independently of your mood - just your true colors. This stable preference may show itself in you wardrobe or home design or may be not but it does not mean that you do not have colours you prefer on the day to day basis.

And the last but not the least - I am working with the color and music typing for a few years already. I have got empirical evidence that the associative approach is working. However, I have not done yet the proper scientific experiment due to many difficulties involved. The work is in progress. I am still plan to create more tests - so far the test is only in Russian. When the tests will be translated in English everyone is wellcome to test it for yourself. We have the tests whcih are non-verbal and partly verbal as I do not reject the traditional approach to typing.

This colortyping is just a tester session for those who wish to a glance or an idea on how does it work but it is a very small part of the approach itself which is more complex.
Please, Maritsa, answer the questions yourself and we shall see what I can see from your answers just by these few questions.
At the next meeting of the LSS I will be happy to explain how the associative approach to typing is a part of the traditional approach- all the connections to the general theory and practice of socionics. It is possbile also to do the vebinar and I could answer all questions.

And for those who wish to try the color typing as a tester-session I will post the tests later today!

[InvisibleJim]

There isn't any reason why you would not do this type of chart based upon the cultural preferences vs cognition. This could correlate with type with some brief explanation and this is all that is suggested. It can be valuable if it is qualitatively useful.

It's something curious, like VI, but not something which gives a definitive 'Model A' type without thorough interrogation of all parts of the personality.

But then again I see plenty of 'round face = SEE' on this forum!