I can see ILE or LII. LSI would be an unlikely third possibility, along with IEI.
I can see ILE or LII. LSI would be an unlikely third possibility, along with IEI.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
one q. can you really see many IEIs (irrational, IP-types) demanding very high moral standards out of their dual, the ESTp? i think udp places a lot of importance on this.Originally Posted by Gilly
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
It's not as bad as it sounds.Originally Posted by Diana
What it means is that IJs shift from two opposite states:
From postivist-narrative-process to taciturn-negativist-result
the IJ "positivist-narrative-process" state can be summarized is "I will show you how it's done!"
While the IJ" taciturn-negativst-result" state is best summarized as "why do I suck so much?"
That means, either you are confident in how to achieve something, or, you feel paralyzed because you think you're not up to it.
But it's a back-and-forth thing, depending on the situation.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
I am unquestionably most attracted to FJ women (attracted as in, relationship feasibility, real compatibility, not just physical appearance). A relationship with FP, TP, or TJ is much, much less likely.Originally Posted by implied
Good call, especially considering what I said above.Originally Posted by implied
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Identify perhaps not, but if a person asks for feedback, it is pretty clear that IJ-negativist mostly talk about troubles related to one's own inadequacies - actually, you too when you speak about how you don't have enough energy to handle this, or that - it's just another way to put "why do I suck so much"Originally Posted by Diana
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
^ that is a useful way to consider things.
I am curious to hear your insights, as, for people who know anything about socionics, you have interacted with me the most.Originally Posted by rockclimber
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Fair point.Originally Posted by implied
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I think he is INTj. I feel I have had a similar attitude as he seems to project, including a focus on morality. I don't really see an obsession with leadership as much as being a competent contributor to humanity. I think it fits in with what expat was saying about the fluctuations of an INTj when he's simultaneously defining standards and trying to measure up to them.
Another point to LII (or at least IJ temperment) - he seems to be an Enneagram 1, at least in my mind.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Where did Expat say that, I missed it?Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
How is there any chance in hell that UDP has EP temperament? That's just ridiculous.Originally Posted by Gilly
I did not see this earlier.Originally Posted by Elro
How much should I write?
You did not see the post in bad habits - I described my dislike of people who make poor relationship decisions.
However.... well.... here...
If I had to use one sentence it would be: "Not learning from your experience". * (see exhibit A)
In this way, I see so much potential wasted, so many mistakes repeated. I dislike incredibly when I repeat mistakes myself, because it feels like instead of making progress, I am having to redo something. It is also very difficult to see others act in such ways. It is extremely difficult to be in an organization, group, or setting where people are not being professional or "giving a damn" about how things are done. I cannot work with people who do not care about quality. (also, "not learning from your experience" is related to my worldview, in that I feel, as a human race, there is much experience that we have been through, and yet we have not refined all our knowledge from these experiences.... so we are prone to making old mistakes, over and over again)
This very much reminds me of the "MBTI INTJ" profiles............................
http://www.personalitypage.com/INTJ.html -- a profile I relate to tremendously. One thing is for sure, and that is my MBTI type: INTJ without question.
The ENTJ profile is also somewhat appealing, but it would be a lie to say I am an extrovert, especially in MBTI terms.
However, in working with an ENTj this semester (President of Hall Council), we got along extremely well (to me. That is to say, we are not best friends or buddy buddy at all, but our working relationship was sound).
[hr:5aea2e9fe6]
EXHIBIT A:
Originally Posted by UDP III
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Again, I think that UDP is a LII primarily due to his rationality, creative use of , and his interactions with the ESE, but if he was not an LII, the next likely choice for me would be the EII. This is because his preoccupation in determining a drive, purpose, or cause is very similar to the EII I happen to know (sister, roommate). And it is possible to read his focus on morality as a symptom of being an Ethical type. I am confident at the very least that UDP is INxj. The question in some regards then is how well does he deal with Deltas and the LSE (and especially those female LSE )? Also I am then drawn to wonder how well can appear to be as and vice versa?
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
EXHIBIT B:
Originally Posted by UDP III
@Logos: I am not sure about LSEs, I have not met many of them, especially females.
In regard to other deltas, I have expressed numerous times on the forum my appreciation for EIIs.
In regard to the EIIs on this forum - rockclimber, and Minde ----- ESPECIALLY in regard to this thread....
[web:900071787a]http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11932&start=15[/web:900071787a]
I do not relate to how EII's describe their interaction with other people.
I believe I am far, far, far too cold to be an EII, or any other ethical ego block type. Consider my vivid refutations of being thought of as an INFp
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
The types I would most want to be:
INTj
ENTj
ESTj
ISTj
So basically, the Tjs.
Other various information that is likely not essential.
(Basically, to give a brief analogy, (and from what little I know about the show), the way of the Vulcans seems most appealing to me. They found peace through logic, and were a founding people of the Federation. I enjoy improvement, and to not enjoy spending time on things very much, although I certainly am human.)
edited
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Some day you'll realize that Socionics isn't what it seems to be.
It is very easy to be tricked out by an appealing idea. It can even make sense. However, that it makes sense it doesn't make it real.
I'm not saying that socionics is not real. What I'm saying is that socionics isn't anything special compared to other typologies. And it's actually easy to understand:
* General population is a sample which represents 100% of the individuals.
* Throw in any dichotomy. It doesn't really matter which one you pick.
* The group will then be split into two groups which are opposing between them.
* Since the property is shared among individuals, they are likely to be driven by the same thought process. So, for example, if the dichotomy you choose is "drinker" and you randomly pick up 10 persons, and of them 8 smoke, you can safely assume that most drinkers smoke. It's basic statistics.
Let's put it a bit more complex:
Dichotomies:
Drinker <-> Abstemious
Showing off <-> Modest
Generous <-> Not generous
You have eight "types":
DSG, DSN, DMG, DMN, ASG, ASN, AMG, AMN
So you go out and observe them in action. With a large enough sample, you'll start to see some patterns: DSG could, for example, like DMN far more than average. The funny thing is that DMN is also likely to like DSG very much. Why? Because, to like each other, they must be drawn to similar places. However, they are different enough to not bore each other.
On the other hand, if DMN doesn't like ASG, it is likely that DSG will not like ASG very much, either, simply because DMN, being the prefered type, is much higher on the scale.
Obviously, the more you refine the dichotomies the better the results will be; however, the basic principles work as well with bananas as they do with complicated things such as Fe, Ni, etc.
With enough dichotomies you can predict relationships, simply because every dichotomy is a new connection to the "black box". Something causes X, something causes Y, something Z. When you have enough of them, what you really have is not an explanation of the underlying system, but, rather, two items of the sample which are very similar between them. And, since they are similar, they are also going to act similar, like similar things, dislike the same, etc.
Well, I'm tired. I'm sure that I would need to check it again for inconsistencies, but overlook them and look at the essence. I hope you can get the point.
[] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)
You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life. - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Mike, that post was cute and all, but what was the point? In other news, Soylent Green is made from people.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Thats' true for all of us to some degree I think, we all play some role or other, we all ideas of who we are and project them on others.Originally Posted by heath
But whenever I have really needed advise from UDP he has been very generous, and usually they struck me as Fi based. Most INTJs that I know are not very good at giving advice, and when they do they focus on abstract concepts.
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
holy shit! dio just said something that made sense!
not that i agree with him, but at least it wasn't completely out of nowhere.
Lol.Originally Posted by niffweed17
INTP/ILI(Ni) /5w4
"When my time comes, forget the wrong that I've done.
Help me leave behind some reasons to be missed."
Socionics in an inductive system: it pretends to impress a way of operation upon the information instead of deriving the way of operation from it (deduction).
This way you force persons to fit a type and its structure, which is fixed. Such structure claims unproven things, such as:
1.- That all divergent thinkers (Ne) must be weak on Si (which doesn't look like convergent thinking to me in Socionics terms).
2.- That all convergent thinkers (Se) must be weak on Ni. Idem.
3.- That all limbic thinkers (Fe) must be weak on Ti (which might be cortex driven, but not sure).
4.- That all linear thinkers (Te) must be weak on Fi (which seems more like fuzzy logic).
So functions doesn't seem symmetrical to me. And if they are not symmetrical they can't be opposite. And if they can't be opposite then the development of one doesn't prevent the development of the other. So, from this perspective, it doesn't seem that off that a person couldn't fit any of the proposed types.
That's why so many people around here seems entertained in the endless discussion of typing people: because most of them, if not all, do not follow the given structure. And they, expressing subjective perceptions, tend to be biased toward aspects of someone's personality that match the socionics doctrine.
I'm sorry for being blunt, but only an idiot says something like "I'll develop my functions" when those functions are not even proven. Think scientifically: what is not proven is not true, period.
[] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)
You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life. - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.
And once more, mikemex, what you have said managed to be simultaneously non-sensical and irrelvant to the subject matter at hand.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
If you want relevance stick to monosyllables.
[] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)
You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life. - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.
How was Ni defined according to this paradigm?Originally Posted by mikemex
All psychological theories are rough oversimplifications.
It does not mean that they cannot be useful and interesting.
"Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
martin_g_karlsson
In the words of the Virgin Mary: "Come again?"Originally Posted by mikemex
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Originally Posted by mikemex
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
Going away always does wonders and opens insights. There are many things that came up while I visited someone, which will be discussed in the following posts.
It seems like LII is the type to beat.
Nevertheless I am curious of other types, particularly the 3 other I mentioned. The type I want to be most right now? I am not sure. There are things I desire to incorporate, and there are other needs that I see arising in my life. So I will be doing some looking into the LSI, the LIE, and the LSE.
Things that have not yet been addressed:
I too am also willing to listen to any insights you may have FDG.Originally Posted by FDG
Could anyone point me to that?Originally Posted by UDP III
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
How so?Originally Posted by implied
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Other items:
- I am getting what I imagine as the " itch", this is to say, Te dominant style of action. At this point in my life I am becoming increasingly uncomfortable being around people and not doing anything. A large portion of my recent "visit/vacation" was spent trying to find something useful to do or plan for doing something useful when I got back.
- One of the appeal of ST types, the STjs, is that I am increasingly finding an enjoyment of doing things more and more, especially the physical aspect. I am enjoying working out more, and appreciating my physical body - I feel less detached to it than before.
- I am not sure how to address this, but here goes: I have absolutely no idea what I prefer more, or .
The other day I had an interesting situation where, I could tell, I was looking and expecting an response from someone - it was a dual seeking move I am sure. And yet, after the initial reaction of being "taken aback", the entire emotional involvement in the process collapsed. Literally. What I was left with was "memories" of being upset or affected by 'seeking and expecting an Fe response and not getting it', but in reality that was not the case. Also, I understand logically human emotion, but I have no idea how to relate to humans, to other people. I can interact with people adequately, especially when there is something to do. I can understand, diagnose, and dissect relationships outside of myself, and yet myself I seem clueless about relating to other people, or tell my what my relationship to them is.- Even more questionable is my take on . I spent almost the entire day yesterday "relaxing" with the family, and it made me somewhat uncomfortable. Notably in the presence and company of an ISTp I was staying with, the focus on was oppressive. (I am even noticing foods I used to enjoy -- Pizza & Wings; icecream sundaes, for example -- are not the same since I have returned from college. Yes, they are "good tasting" and "fun to eat", but I do not enjoy them in the same way I used to. It is not relaxing for me to eat food like that as it once was.)
If someone could explain, or show me a link to
-->
-->
- the differences between these two, it would be useful. Specifically, what Ti is looking for from Fe (and why), and what Te is looking for from Fi (and why).
Examples would also be useful.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I don't remember saying that, not in those terms, not sure what it means, either --Originally Posted by UDP III
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
ENTj-Te?
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
That may be what I am growing into somewhat.Originally Posted by FDG
I am not sure if Se>Si completely.
I am not sure what I feel I need from my dual, in terms of her being Fe/Fi leading, or what would be most beneficial in terms of a creative function. All I know is that she fairly certainly must be Fj.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
.
.
i was thinking that. on some of these issues he sounds like my da-da and i find it really odd to agree with him on a lot of things (yet really UDP is topping the scales quite often in obnoxiousness. not anathema to ENTj and especially not to INTj either.Originally Posted by FDG
edit: another thing. you repeatedly go on about how completely uncomfortable you are with the "infantile" role or even the term. i think this could indicate more of a / quadra and i do not chock this up to "being male" or whatever. on the other hand i think the way you go on about your requirements for your loved one (mostly physical and sort of empty-seeming IMO) makes it sort of clear that you do not value no matter how much social/humanitarian work you do. i find this weird and kind of pseudo-delta seeming but not really delta, still, because you don't seem to recognize the individual qualities of human beings, regardless of whatever ideal you have worked up on your head.
however, you're also always going on about how you have no desire to submit to someone's strong will or whatever. that could be an issue with ISFj.
i'll pm you in a few.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
For what it's worth, you write, and VI, and generally come across, as a very strong IJ.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
Indeed I agree.Originally Posted by Expat
Without question I believe I have demonstrated heavy IJ-ness on the forum. I am wondering if I am going to continue being that way in real life, though. We'll see.
I will read over Diana's pm in a few while I am eating lunch.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Concerning Diana's PM:
It seems like a conversation between Te and Fi, yes. I do not believe I am Te leading in any way, but I believe learning how to properly use Te is a next step for my progression. I believe I am an LII, nothing has changed. Figuring out how to convert Te into Ti, and then use Ti to properly arrange Te is something to work on. ((related to the Etype 5 - to - 8 transition I am sure))
Furthermore, I still plan to "visit" each quadra for about a week at a time... but it is fairly clear I am IJ, particularly INTj. Emotional neutrality, systems analysis, IJ temperament, preparing (Ne) to deal with , and it still seems like my best match would be an ESE.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
*dusts off hands like she did the work*Originally Posted by UDP III