Fi PoLR - Misunderstood

[Elro]

Edit: this is sensitive information and apparently not related to Fi PoLR anyway.

[Ms. Kensington]

more like, maybe an ExTp could talk about how they experience relationships.

[Ezra]

I have no idea what my Fi PoLR means.

[Ms. Kensington]

I have no idea what my Fi PoLR means.

dude if you are an ESTp if you

more like, maybe an ExTp could talk about how they experience relationships.

you could tell us what it means

[mikemex]

Fi PoLR would be more like being obvlious to the perspective of other people about a topic. Like, for example, when throwing away some mean humor expecting that everybody will find it humorous too and being surprised that some people doesn't find it humorous at all. It's related to Fe in the sense that Fe tries to mimic the general mood (=consensus) and doesn't handle the complexity of understanding multiple points of view like Fi does.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Suomea]

Fi PoLR would be more like being obvlious to the perspective of other people about a topic. Like, for example, when throwing away some mean humor expecting that everybody will find it humorous too and being surprised that some people doesn't find it humorous at all. It's related to Fe in the sense that Fe tries to mimic the general mood (=consensus) and doesn't handle the complexity of understanding multiple points of view like Fi does.

Maybe but not really. Being oblivious to the perspective of other people is more a lack of Ne. I can understand thousands of points of view and always take them into account. Fi POLR is more like being oblivious to how they feel about you.... that is unless they show you Fe. It can really suck in relationships and is constantly making me doubt certain relationships. I try not to let it bother me in general, and if I get enough Fe in general in my life it really doesn't bother me at all, but without Fe I really am blind to who likes me and who doesn't.

[implied]

Elro, that's not an example of Fi polr. That's an example of crappy manipulative people that your parents shouldn't put up with, and you being the only one showing any kind of sense. People should not use their problems as an excuse to run over and take advantage of others. I would have made the son get out and walk if he would have made the sarcastic comment that he made to your dad, so if you have a Fi polr, then I must have an ultra-Fi-polr or something.

BTW, I don't think you have a Fi polr anyway.


PS. I'm not here.

ooh, thank you there diana. i agree something didn't sound quite Fi polr to me. had i been in the same situation, i believe i would have done the same thing you did, elro.

[Khamelion]

i did but i think i asked that it be erased because i ranted heavily about an issue i had with ENTp and ENFj, and the ENFj was thinking of coming to the board. might be under ENTp or something if its still there.

lol i see examples of this nearly everyday. ill have to type in here when it happens.

[Khamelion]

more like, maybe an ExTp could talk about how they experience relationships.

would be awesome if i could get my fiance in here to talk about it. he's almost like a text book

[Ms. Kensington]

Fi PoLR would be more like being obvlious to the perspective of other people about a topic. Like, for example, when throwing away some mean humor expecting that everybody will find it humorous too and being surprised that some people doesn't find it humorous at all. It's related to Fe in the sense that Fe tries to mimic the general mood (=consensus) and doesn't handle the complexity of understanding multiple points of view like Fi does.

Maybe but not really. Being oblivious to the perspective of other people is more a lack of Ne. I can understand thousands of points of view and always take them into account. Fi POLR is more like being oblivious to how they feel about you.... that is unless they show you Fe. It can really suck in relationships and is constantly making me doubt certain relationships. I try not to let it bother me in general, and if I get enough Fe in general in my life it really doesn't bother me at all, but without Fe I really am blind to who likes me and who doesn't.

thank you, and it makes sense. But would this also apply to not knowing how you feel about others? when you are in a relationship how does Fi polr affect your own feelings?

[Ms. Kensington]

also yes im glad my evaluation of elro's post matches diana's (hi diana who is not here)

[Gilly]

My symptoms of Fi PoLR:

- I have trouble staying in touch with people I don't see and interact with on a daily basis. Also, when I do see people whom I haven't in a while, it takes me a little while to get "in synch" with them and be in a familiar mode of communication.

- I love familiarity where I can get it, but that's probably because it's basically impossible for me to establish it on my own. When I'm in a rare mood, I'm probably the most outgoing and smoothest talking of any of my friends, and I find it pretty easy to make people like me, but I never feel close at all with a person until they give me cues for emotional comfort.

- I never tell anyone about my feelings or personal problems. My worlds never really collide; I have different circles of friends in different places, but I never talk to anyone other than my parents about what's going on in my "other worlds."

[Ezra]

I have no idea what my Fi PoLR means.

dude if you are an ESTp if you

more like, maybe an ExTp could talk about how they experience relationships.

you could tell us what it means

I have little to no relationship experience. It's pretty unimportant to me. The way I see the pro of a relationship is that what you have to normally work to get on a nightly basis you get everyday in a relationship, guarenteed. The con is that you have to maintain that relationship through gift-giving, "I love you"s (and meaning it), and other small acts of expression of love.

[Gilly]

Oh you're a regular Will Hunting...

[Suomea]

My symptoms of Fi PoLR:

- I have trouble staying in touch with people I don't see and interact with on a daily basis. Also, when I do see people whom I haven't in a while, it takes me a little while to get "in synch" with them and be in a familiar mode of communication.

- I love familiarity where I can get it, but that's probably because it's basically impossible for me to establish it on my own. When I'm in a rare mood, I'm probably the most outgoing and smoothest talking of any of my friends, and I find it pretty easy to make people like me, but I never feel close at all with a person until they give me cues for emotional comfort.

- I never tell anyone about my feelings or personal problems. My worlds never really collide; I have different circles of friends in different places, but I never talk to anyone other than my parents about what's going on in my "other worlds."

Agree with the first two. As for the rare mood it basically happens any time I'm at a bar with Fe music playing. I start to make everyone feel amazing. All I need is Fe comfort. When I saw Gilly's video it looked a lot like me kinda. There are definitely some differences in our temperament but I could see the same starry eyed light up the room look. I also definitely have trouble staying in touch with people.

For the third I'm pretty open about my personal problems with any Alpha or Delta, and will pretty much tell even a stranger my deepest darkest secrets as long as I trust them (well almost). I do however semi freely discuss my different worlds though I don't like to mix them. As for my feelings I can be quite secretive though. Women often times say that they never know what I'm thinking or that I'm a mystery. Kinda the way I like it. Normally though the people I'm close to we have an intense moment at some point where true feelings come out...... often times when we're both drunk.

Hmmm about how Fi POLR affects my feelings for others..... romantically when I was young it was very all or nothing and it sucked. Still is now kinda. I don't trust my feelings very well, and realize that I need to build a relationship where there isn't that emotional intensity but more of an even tempered respect and love for someone. My emotional feelings for someone dry out rather quickly, so while intense moments are good, they don't last forever and I've left girls hanging emotionally before which sucks and I feel horrible about. Right now I pretty much try and make it so girls don't get their feelings involved in me too much. This often times does not work and has the reverse effect which part of me likes and part of me hates. The conflict being my desire to be loved and in knowing that others truly love me, and the other being not leading girls on if I'm not sure of something. The latter winning out most of the time.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[FDG]

I have no idea what my Fi PoLR means.

dude if you are an ESTp if you

more like, maybe an ExTp could talk about how they experience relationships.

you could tell us what it means

I have little to no relationship experience. It's pretty unimportant to me. The way I see the pro of a relationship is that what you have to normally work to get on a nightly basis you get everyday in a relationship, guarenteed. The con is that you have to maintain that relationship through gift-giving, "I love you"s (and meaning it), and other small acts of expression of love.

I AM A BIG MAN THAT ONLY WANNAAS SECHS BO BOMMMM

[discojoe]

LOL

[Rocket]

For an ENTP all or nothing in terms of relationships has a ring of truth about it. There are underlying aspirations to a standard or ideal (often unachievable/unrealistic.) The focus is simply on ideas/thinking/creativity as if people could be expected to put aside all their sensitivities/ailments/idiosyncratic desires in favour of focusing on this kind of creative thought process.

Unfortunately this appears to others to be unusually harsh or insensitive or worse a personal attack. But in reality the other person is not a target (in the way that a feeler would understand) they are assessed as a "sparring partner" with whom to knock about ideas with. And if they are found wanting it is often because they decline to participate. Damage to relationships is therefore unwittingly done by way of omission, its as if there is no need to feel or demonstrate kinship with the other .... all the relationship issues and "fitness" to ignore non-intellectual concerns are taken as a given. Unless others make it explicit up front (or it is blatantly evident) there is no real effort to create conditions for others to reveal themselves. A lot of things are assumed, and in most cases people are wrongly assumed to be fair game for "intellectual sparring".

[Ezra]

I have no idea what my Fi PoLR means.

dude if you are an ESTp if you

more like, maybe an ExTp could talk about how they experience relationships.

you could tell us what it means

I have little to no relationship experience. It's pretty unimportant to me. The way I see the pro of a relationship is that what you have to normally work to get on a nightly basis you get everyday in a relationship, guarenteed. The con is that you have to maintain that relationship through gift-giving, "I love you"s (and meaning it), and other small acts of expression of love.

I AM A BIG MAN THAT ONLY WANNAAS SECHS BO BOMMMM

I even tried to force a laugh out for this one. It just wasn't funny though.

[Suomea]

Get it all here:

http://oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=4...fbe4760a71d25d

Yeah.... I agree with most of whats posted here. On a more negative note I find that some ESTps can be insanely jealous when they actually do let their guard down and enter into a relationship. This often times doesn't happen often for ESTps or ENTps. I'm talking about really letting one's guard down, and not pseudo letting one's guard down. A bitter taste from getting hurt in both ESTps and ENTps can cause them to never want to let their guard down again..... probably rightfully so.

[Mediator Kam]

I just received this from my ILE friend. Although I am passing it along too, I believe this is an example of an PoLR. It's humorous, but what would happen if that girl found out she is the target of such ridicule? I doubt that picture was meant for the internet. And who knows, she could have a hormonal imbalance, who knows? Anyway, here it is.

[Wynch]

Fi PoLR or no, I just don't find that very funny. It's just...not funny? I mean the expression on the girl's face is pretty funny. But the whole zooming in deal is really more annoying than anything. *shrugs*

[normal]

my eyes...

ps. yes, not funny at all. It's disturbing.

[Mediator Kam]

yes I actually considered how the picture itself could have been humorous, but the zooming in killed any sort of humor that could have been squeezed from this.

[redbaron]

I didn't even get it at first. not funny.

[Ezra]

If SLEs are unable to evaluate the emotional states of people which, I assume, includes themselves, how are they able to have:

no doubts about own interest in another person

-Source

?

[Simon Ssmall]

It does not include themselves? I also don't think FI PolR manifests as being evaluate the emotional states of people. Se types usually know what they want and actively seek to get it. I rarely see them to be plagued by self-doubt.

[shakealittle]

I think the ‘no doubts’ relates to us knowing what we want upon initially seeing it. We also know how much we want it relative to other things, which makes it easy for us to gauge what we should focus on. I think Se is like a detector that naturally measures the resistance of people/objects etc.

The problem comes about when I know there’s interest and I shut down a bit, trying to get them to back off (because I don’t like people getting too close to me). After they back off though, I do feel bad and then I’m happy for them to like me again, lol. I’m not sure if this is my weak Fi but it’s happened many times…maybe an E1 thing. Don’t think this is what victims need if they want to be constantly reassured :s

(PS I'm Fi role)

[Ezra]

It does not include themselves?

Yes, that's what I expected.

I also don't think FI PolR manifests as being evaluate the emotional states of people.

I'm a bit confused by this sentence. Can you clarify it, please?

Se types usually know what they want and actively seek to get it. I rarely see them to be plagued by self-doubt.

What is contained in "want", though?

I think the ‘no doubts’ relates to us knowing what we want upon initially seeing it. We also know how much we want it relative to other things, which makes it easy for us to gauge what we should focus on. I think Se is like a detector that naturally measures the resistance of people/objects etc.

You're LSI, right? So, essentially, what we do is we know we want something (like we want to fuck someone, or we want a certain job, or we want to attain something else).

However, @Ssmall, I don't think this necessitates an understanding of relations between individuals.

[Simon Ssmall]

I also don't think FI PolR manifests as being unable to evaluate the emotional states of people. Missed a part of the sentence.

What is contained in "want", though?

That I do not know and im pretty sure its situational. As you mentioned, sex, relationship or whatever else you can think of. Maybe it's just simple impulse of you being attracted to someone without further thought. All of it I am guessing though, its just how I see it.

However, @Ssmall, I don't think this necessitates an understanding of relations between individuals.

What you have in mind with this sentence? Sorry didn't understood you. If you meant that it's not how Fi PolR manifests then how do you think it does?

[redbaron]

Maybe it's not that they're unable to evaluate the emotional states of people, but just that it's not what they focus on or deem important. For instance, I know a couple SLEs who are really good at noticing everything that goes on but variance in other people's emotions, or even their own, doesn't deter them or throw them off course that easily. (which is a really nice quality to have, imo)

[shakealittle]

You're LSI, right? So, essentially, what we do is we know we want something (like we want to fuck someone, or we want a certain job, or we want to attain something else).

Yup I am.

It's not to say other types don't know what they want, I guess they would, especially when it involves other people. But we don't second guess as much when in the moment.

Victims give us opportunities to act and we notice, so we act on them....I wouldn't have much confidence in initiating if they didn't signal to act. I think N types would be so focused on all the possibilities/implications that they would be paralyzed by it all. We don't really register those things, we just see their signal for what it is and act.

Once things are established and more intimacy is required, I'm not much of an aggressor.

[Ezra]

I also don't think FI PolR manifests as being unable to evaluate the emotional states of people.

So you disagree with the Wikisocion interpretation of Fi PoLR?

What is your take on the manifestation of Fi PoLR?

What you have in mind with this sentence? Sorry didn't understood you. If you meant that it's not how Fi PolR manifests then how do you think it does?

Sorry, it wasn't entirely clear. What I meant to say was that I don't think that going after something or someone with a clear, undoubting mind means one has the innate capacity to understand interpersonal relations.

Maybe it's not that they're unable to evaluate the emotional states of people, but just that it's not what they focus on or deem important.

While I could see this in a Fi competent but devaluing type e.g. Alpha SF or Beta NF, I don't see how it would make sense with regards to a type who is not just devaluing of Fi, but who is weak in it as well. Of course, SLEs neither focus on or deem Fi important, but this is simply because they don't value it. I'd expect every Beta to act in exactly the same way regarding Fi.

So what is Fi PoLR in the SLE, if not an inability to evaluate the relations I'm talking about?

It's not to say other types don't know what they want, I guess they would, especially when it involves other people.

prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person

-Source

[quote]Victims give us opportunities to act and we notice, so we act on them....I wouldn't have much confidence in initiating if they didn't signal to act.[quote]

I'd probably agree with you. I think, on the other hand, Victims would have trouble acting even with said signals, especially Introverted Victims.

I think N types would be so focused on all the possibilities/implications that they would be paralyzed by it all. We don't really register those things, we just see their signal for what it is and act.

Yep, exactly.

Once things are established and more intimacy is required, I'm not much of an aggressor.

Interesting. Certain elements of the Aggressor stay with me, but certain others disappear.

[redbaron]

yeah I don't know. age could have something to do with it too. Like an older, mature SLE might know through experience that he should try to evaluate the emotions of others, especially in his important relationships, even if he's not good at it. for instance, the SLE I'm friends with (who is older) will sometimes ask me if I'm okay if I sigh or give a look. I mean, not very often but I can tell he notices my emotional state and will sometimes just ask straight out. but not if we're in a crowd, only if we're alone or on the phone. *shrug*

[Simon Ssmall]

So you disagree with the Wikisocion interpretation of Fi PoLR?What is your take on the manifestation of Fi PoLR?

To me Fi is more about relationships and links, than emotional states, the level of relationships and its type. To me emotional state of a person is more temporary, something that can change more quickly. Evaluation of it probably relates to Fe as it seems to be more flexible. I guess I just dislike the way its worded, maybe the essence is the same.

Id say weak Fi manifests in ENTp's and ESTp's differently. First ones can be too friendly with people who don't care about them and be too cold with one's that do but aren't showing it. ESTp's I think can overstep personal boundaries and they do so if it suits them, however not always conciously. Not sure if I can put it in better words. Maybe that's not how you see/feel it, but then Id be interested on whats your take on it.

Sorry, it wasn't entirely clear. What I meant to say was that I don't think that going after something or someone with a clear, undoubting mind means one has the innate capacity to understand interpersonal relations.

I agree with that.

[redbaron]

To me Fi is more about relationships and links, than emotional states, the level of relationships and its type. To me emotional state of a person is more temporary, something that can change more quickly. Evaluation of it probably relates to Fe as it seems to be more flexible. I guess I just dislike the way its worded, maybe the essence is the same.

Id say weak Fi manifests in ENTp's and ESTp's differently. First ones can be too friendly with people who don't care about them and be too cold with one's that do but aren't showing it. ESTp's I think can overstep personal boundaries and they do so if it suits them, however not always conciously.

ooh, I think this is really good!

[mikemex]

I rarely see them to be plagued by self-doubt.

That's because they are unable to use Ne for the most part, making them quite single minded.

[redbaron]

That's because they are unable to use Ne for the most part, making them quite single minded.

yes but that's the beauty.... being able to make that decision and RUN with it.