Some things I disagree with
ESEs have demonstrative Se. And there's almost no Ni in him from what I remember. I'll agree that he's Fe leading, but I don't see how having a lot of Se means he can't be ESE.
https://youtu.be/CY5As-RP1MM
That video really shows his Ni. I never said having lots of Se means he can't be ESE, I just said he valued Se, which should be obvious.
I just don't see the point in typing him when he's practically a complete psychopath. You've basically summarized all the main traits of a psychopath to EIE. Unless you happen to know what each type as a psychopath would be like, I just don't see how this is insightful.
I actually agree typing such disturbed characters is folly, but many on this thread are typing Joffrey stuff like LII and ILE which is so ridiculous that I'm trying to show that if we had to type him, EIE would be the safest bet. I also explicitly said these typings aren't perfect.
I don't see how this makes sense. This guy has a self-aggrandized idea of himself, that he deserves certain things. He had this whole idea of being this great being that everyone should worship. ---points to--> Si. And his intuition was shit; he was oblivious to what was happening around him and how people felt about him. Don't see how a character that doesn't pay any attention to how other people feel about him is Fe leading? If anything, I'd say Viserys had a lack of Fe and poor intuition. Points more to LSE than EIE.
That is absolutely not Si, where did you get that idea? If anything, EIEs often have a self-aggrandizing idea of themselves, that they deserve certain things, but I'd rather not attribute this trait to a type. That's not what intuition is either, that what sensing [what's happening around someone] and Fi [how people feel about someone] deals with. Viserys is EIE and thus Fi ignoring. Only on one occasion did Viserys demonstrate ignorance of Fe, an EIEs leading function, and that was when he was drunk. Not sure how you see a Delta in him; obvious Beta.
I have no thoughts on his type before he was emotionally and spiritually destroyed. But after everything he's been though, he's not differentiated enough for a type imo because Se-PoLR doesn't imply being meek and afraid.
Se-PoLR does in fact imply being RELATIVELY meek and afraid. That's not the only reason I gave either.
No opinion about his type as he's another pretty much psychopath, but I've never known any SEEs that enjoy plotting and toying with people ----> points to thinking. They are almost always "live and let live" people, unless you do something to provoke them. But even then, they are acting against you because of a perceived hurt or wrong.
Plotting and toying with people doesn't point to thinking. If anything, dealing with people's emotions [negatively even] and being good at it points more to feeling. To be fair, I haven't seen any silly typings of Ramsay that I did with Joffrey, but from a functional standpoint, he fits SEE. It's not like I expect him to conform to a stereotype or for other SEEs to relate or like him.
Well, being cold and distrusting is often associated with thinking types, as they are unable or not very good at gauging how other people feel about them. She is amoral and vengeful, but I don't see how that has to mean Gamma. She's mercurial, I agree, but who doesn't get emotional when they have to constantly deal with threats and pressures from the people around them? If anything I'd say she's an introvert, due to her private and plotting nature; probably LSI-Se is a better typing than ESI; Fi types are much better at relating their own emotions with other people. Cersei doesn't do this at all.
Good argument, I've changed my mind, she's an LSI-Se probably. That explains her trying to emulate Tywin [LSI], but I can't see duality between her and Robert, who I still think is EIE. Gammas are vengeful by nature, that's commonly accepted in Socionics. I never said being amoral is gamma, I said being amoral points more to a Fi creative [SEE] than a Fi leading [ESI]. Not that I think SEEs are amoral people, just MORE amoral than ESIs.
I agree that she's Fi leading. But her being naive isn't really a good case for Se valuing imo. Anyone that's been sheltered from the world is going to have a warped sense of it. She's one of the few characters that has seemed to develop themselves from a Jungian standpoint. But it'll be interesting to see where she takes this.
You're twisting my words repeatedly. I never said being naive is a good case for Se valuing. On the contrary Se types are anything but naive. I was in fact trying to explain why a Se type [ESI] was naive when they are usually realistic people. I've considered and still consider the possibility that she was an EII and is now an ESI or even SEE.
That's an interesting typing. Most people are pretty keen on either EIE or ILE. I don't have a strong opinion. I just find Tyrion to be extroverted, intuitive, good at understanding how people feel about him, and with a strong moral compass, so maybe that's a better typing than the other two.
Well, I think EIE makes more sense, given she's really good at gauging how people feel about her and dealing with them. She's also quick to pick up on the subtleties of other people. Maybe she's too much of an aggressor for that though. I'm not sure. But EIE and SEE are a benefit pair, making it hard to distinguish one from the other. So I won't really argue with you on this.
SEEs are better at gauging how people feel about them and dealing with them, that's related to Fi, as is picking up on the subtleties of other people. Not saying EIEs can't do that, just that SEEs can also do so.
Another benefit pair with SLI and ESI. He probably comes off as both types, depending on what period of time you're looking at in the character's development. I got the same impression from Jon Snow. But I'll argue that if they struggle with sorting out their Fi, SLI fits better overall with an Fi hidden agenda.
People can struggle with their leading function, for instance an SEE being impulsive and headstrong or an ILI being anxious and lazy. ESI-Se are a lot more closed off and darker than their Fi subtypes. But I still think SLI is good second typing.