The Delta type of evil

[ashlesha]

inspired by the the "most dangerous type" thread...i know this has been discussed before, sorry. i remember the most prominent conception of how delta evil would manifest being some kind of utopia, like the giver or something? do you agree with this? what i'm most interested in is the why - translating how TeNeFiSi could go bad in a traceable way. thoughts?

[golden]

At the risk of offending some of the very lovely Deltas on our board, the way/s I have seen "evil" manifest in some Deltas in my life is through some kind of disconnection from the effects or real intent of actions.

I have seen a failure in terms of embracing, integrating, and understanding one's own shadow. In any person, of any stripe, this can lead to the shadow self affecting one's behavior such that one is unaware of it. The right hand will not know what the left hand is doing, as they say. Right hand: "I am a nice person and am doing this for everyone's benefit." Left hand, unheard: "I will control others and make myself comfortable and secure by doing this, and if it hurts them I will not acknowledge that even to myself." That sort of thing.

[Beautiful sky]

At the risk of offending some of the very lovely Deltas on our board, the way/s I have seen "evil" manifest in some Deltas in my life is through some kind of disconnection from the effects or real intent of actions.

I have seen a failure in terms of embracing, integrating, and understanding one's own shadow. In any person, of any stripe, this can lead to the shadow self affecting one's behavior such that one is unaware of it. The right hand will not know what the left hand is doing, as they say. Right hand: "I am a nice person and am doing this for everyone's benefit." Left hand, unheard: "I will control others and make myself comfortable and secure by doing this, and if it hurts them I will not acknowledge that even to myself." That sort of thing.

I do that to some level, yes, mainly because of the J function and being locked into one's ways. It might be a process of evolution. Evolution of Delta, to me, looks very simple. Fi is to create group bond. It's strengthens a group to remain uniform because hunting in bigger numbers makes the group survive and be much more successful. All behaviors that tie into Delta make it correlate with evolutionary necessity.

[ashlesha]

@golden: yeah, this is something i've seen in a few people. i have i hard time seeing it in myself, but that could be an example lolol :/ any idea how it could be related to delta values? valued Fi and unvalued Ni maybe? in any case, personal observations are interesting, thank you.

@small: yeah, thats exactly what i was looking for. nothing to add really, your post was helpful, thanks.

[golden]

@golden: yeah, this is something i've seen in a few people. i have i hard time seeing it in myself, but that could be an example lolol :/ any idea how it could be related to delta values? valued Fi and unvalued Ni maybe? in any case, personal observations are interesting, thank you.

Setting aside for a moment the information elements and backing out to the big picture, what Dolphin wrote about quadras and the abyss relates to this, imo.

http://forum.socionix.com/topic/3712...__1#entry23364

In terms of the IEs, it could be something about making meaning of the world through Si versus Ni, and valuing Fi bonds over broader Fe social values. I think there's more than one way to look at it and haven't given it a lot of thought at this point.

[somavision]

Setting aside for a moment the information elements and backing out to the big picture, what Dolphin wrote about quadras and the abyss relates to this, imo.

http://forum.socionix.com/topic/3712...__1#entry23364

In terms of the IEs, it could be something about making meaning of the world through Si versus Ni, and valuing Fi bonds over broader Fe social values. I think there's more than one way to look at it and haven't given it a lot of thought at this point.

That link is really, really good.

[wasp]

“the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

[Singu]

I think that Deltas become too proud... and they become too protective of their "own kind". They look down on anyone that they deem as their inferiors and subordinates with contempt or disregard, yet they suck up to their superiors. They become arrogant or snobbish.

[Absurd]

I do that to some level, yes, mainly because of the J function and being locked into one's ways. It might be a process of evolution. Evolution of Delta, to me, looks very simple. Fi is to create group bond. It's strengthens a group to remain uniform because hunting in bigger numbers makes the group survive and be much more successful. All behaviors that tie into Delta make it correlate with evolutionary necessity.

You're talking about Fe, dumbo. I appreciate you stop reading my posts twisting them and forming some bullshit shit.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=34745

1. Being "locked into one's way" won't get you far as far evolution goes,

2. It depends on the group. A group of nutters won't help your evolutional cause as well, and I think you're aiming for such a group, you group person you,

3. Having said that, go ahead and (d)evolve. Sorry, I wanted to quote you properly "Let's evolve", but I think devolving suits you better,

4. You're Ti valuing,

5. Not this kind of disinformation is/was requested by the thread maker.

Au revoir, singe.

[golden]

I do that to some level, yes, mainly because of the J function and being locked into one's ways. It might be a process of evolution. Evolution of Delta, to me, looks very simple. Fi is to create group bond. It's strengthens a group to remain uniform because hunting in bigger numbers makes the group survive and be much more successful. All behaviors that tie into Delta make it correlate with evolutionary necessity.

You do realize that you're implying Delta is the most advanced quadra, correct? That's almost exactly what I am getting at when I point to the problems I've had with certain Deltas IRL. Quadra aside, that kind of attitude is abhorrent to me.

Part of what Dolphin does not seem to say about the abyss, but which I happen to think is true, is that it's a loop. It is not onward, upward, ever better; it's "oops, looks like we fucked it up again."

[DirectorAbbie]

Delta Villian: Refusing to change tradition regardless of the consequences.

[Trevor]

A guesswork, basically:

Racism, prejudices, nepothism, unability to really relate to other people/social groups and their eventual misfortunes...

[Singu]

Delta Villian: Refusing to change tradition regardless of the consequences.

perfect. Although that doesn't sound very villain-y.

Super Delta villain: I REFUSE to change the tradition! Even if it kills us all!

Everyone: Idiot... let's just ignore him.

Although that could be a problem if the majority were Delta, or if the absolute ruler was a Delta.

[Creepy-female]

Part of what Dolphin does not seem to say about the abyss, but which I happen to think is true, is that it's a loop. It is not onward, upward, ever better; it's "oops, looks like we fucked it up again."

I do think it's a loop. (I regret that I didn't make that clear, but I supposed that readers could extend the metaphor in whatever way that was helpful to them without contradicting the original material.) I think the most wise people have in mind that it's a loop..I think it makes more sense to say, I wrote it that way because, despite some people having a better awareness of the loop than others, each quadra is pretty fixed in their view of their place in the loop as correct, valid.

Now, having an opinion that something is valid...negates the space of its contrast..there's just not as much room for the opposing opinion. You can acknowledge that there are other viewpoints..but just by the fact that you hold a viewpoint, you are making a definitive statement about your judgment of it. I see the knowledge of the existence of the loop as a tool to think about how to communicate more effectively..to others for the way they are..to understand human nature..but at the end of the day I believe I do make decisions partly based on a Gamma viewpoint.

[golden]

I do think it's a loop. (I regret that I didn't make that clear, but I supposed that readers could extend the metaphor in whatever way that was helpful to them without contradicting the original material.) I think the most wise people have in mind that it's a loop..I think it makes more sense to say, I wrote it that way because, despite some people having a better awareness of the loop than others, each quadra is pretty fixed in their view of their place in the loop as correct, valid.

Now, having an opinion that something is valid...negates the space of its contrast..there's just not as much room for the opposing opinion. You can acknowledge that there are other viewpoints..but just by the fact that you hold a viewpoint, you are making a definitive statement about your judgment of it. I see the knowledge of the existence of the loop as a tool to think about how to communicate more effectively..to others for the way they are..to understand human nature..but at the end of the day I believe I do make decisions partly based on a Gamma viewpoint.

Well, I sorta want OUT of the bottom of the abyss, and feel like my life is about trying to get out of it, which might help explain why I have/had (apparently) Gamma parents and ended up marrying a Delta. Mostly I want people to see how we are all complicit in this human story, regardless of how we feel about it, or how we judge or assess it.

The only reason I brought up the idea that the abyss is a loop was as a response to the implication that Delta is just free and clear of the phenomenon of human darkness. All of us are human, and all of us are part and parcel of it--it is a collective phenomenon. And I think that by resisting or denying something, we tend to strengthen it.

[crazedrat]

I do that to some level, yes, mainly because of the J function and being locked into one's ways. It might be a process of evolution. Evolution of Delta, to me, looks very simple. Fi is to create group bond. It's strengthens a group to remain uniform because hunting in bigger numbers makes the group survive and be much more successful. All behaviors that tie into Delta make it correlate with evolutionary necessity.

Thats not the shadow, and thats not a full representation of evolution either. All things are evolutionary, including when people split up. You can bring evolution into anything.

The shadow of a group bond is the people left out in the cold. Like when people preach about donating to charities to feed the alaskan homeless or to donate to breast cancer research. The first thing I always think is "why the alaskan homeless in particular?". And they will build these things up to be such great causes. Yeah they're good causes, but who ever mentions the starving nations over in africa? A few people, but not as many. Even though those people are far more in need than anyone over here in the USA. But they're not as cared for. They're not part of our group of the favored and pampered. That's pretty much a Delta attitude. If this kind of group bond goes overboard you get something like the USA which tramples over the rest of the world. Its always Deltas with that american pride shit, too. Same thing with christianity.

[EyeSeeCold]

Like I said lol

Manipulative.

The NFs

P.S. Hell yes it's warranted.

[717495]

in an evil delta type could also be something like doing whatever you want for your own deep-seeded pleasure, without regarding others feelings and the ethical consequences of such (like that ESTj in Wall Street) along the lines of what Ssmall said, business leverage via relationships, and the other I thought of was said, a corrupt sense of right and wrong. Just as could be doing things for the purpose of imposing the objective ethic or feeling of people onto an act or principle, aka ignorance of others feelings or even ignorance of a genuinely empathetic feeling, as well as peer corruption/manipulation, to speak generally. But in reality I think all types can be ignorant, stupid, selfish in the same ways, thus can be seen as evil from different perspectives, like quadra. The categorizing doesn't really assist the general truth.

[Simon Ssmall]

Umm not that sure what are you asking for. What are common pitfalls of delta or how would a evil delta person be?

Assuming I understand what you are asking then a few from the top of my head:

FiTe - Corruption. Using personal relations to push through something you need. To make it faster and without hickups. Such behavior, especially if it brings results can become a habit.

SiFi - Complacency (not sure for what is a proper word for this). Ignoring minor transgressions and the like in order to preserve peace and strong bonds. This can grow without notice, minor, minor, minor, major, minor, minor. As long as no single transgression is overly big or as long as the frequency of them isn't too great this can go on for a long time with adverse effects on others. For example when politicians ignore human rights violations or react in a very mild form when they have good relations with that country.
Obviously this scenario can fit any quadra but reasons for doing it would differ.

[krieger]

The Fallout 1 PC RPG game has a very characteristic instance of what i would call "Delta evil".

Basically the hero of the story lives in a fallout shelter that lends protection from radiation from a nuclear war for most of his early life, then is sent outside by the ISTp overseer to find a replacement water purification chip that is needed for the people inside the shelter to survive. The world outside is very harsh and cruel place where he needs to develop a lot of Beta skills to survive. He finds the chip and returns it, then is sent out again to get rid of another threat, rinse repeat until the world is deemed safe by the ISTp overseer. When he is all worn out and ready to retire and returns home, the overseer decides that his Beta attitude makes him no longer fit in with the vault's inhabitants and exiles him. He had been sending the hero on errands to get rid of him.

[Lobo]

The topic of evil has been studied by Christians for years (considering how important sin is in the religion). I believe that evil is a manifestation of the "seven deadly sins":

-Gluttony
-Lust
-Greed
-Sloth
-Wrath
-Envy
-Pride

So I'd say that Delta might not be very good at dealing with Sloth and Pride in general.

[Hope]

inspired by the the "most dangerous type" thread...i know this has been discussed before, sorry. i remember the most prominent conception of how delta evil would manifest being some kind of utopia, like the giver or something? do you agree with this? what i'm most interested in is the why - translating how TeNeFiSi could go bad in a traceable way. thoughts?

Clipped wings complex and aristocratic traits would be the areas of Deltas wrong doings. I also think the perception of good/wrong is related to your our personal or quadra values. F.e. aristocratic rights can hurt/offend gammas sense of equality/democracy.

In short:
SLI can ignore you/push you away and dont give a damn if you interfere with his well being or fail to motivate him.
LSE can be mouthy and looking too much for having a profit.
IEE can be sycophantic and hoaxing( for experimental purposes only).
EII can become manipulative, paranoid>neurotic and prideful.

[Spermatozoa]

Clipped wings complex and aristocratic traits would be the areas of Deltas wrong doings. I also think the perception of good/wrong behavior is related to your own personal or quadra values. F.e. aristocratic rights can hurt/offend gammas sense of equality/democracy.

In short:
SLI can ignore you/push you away and dont give a damn if you interfere with his well being or fail to motivate him.
LSE can be mouthy and looking too much for having a profit.
IEE can be sycophantic and hoaxing( for experimental purposes only).
EII can become manipulative, paranoid>neurotic and prideful.

I dislike Delta Quadra's tendency to create moral pecking orders. They organize people around them as inferior or superior based on their perceived virtue (they often conflate "not being scary" with "socially approved" with virtue). If you are a polite, clean-shaven accountant who votes Hillary, you can do no wrong in their eyes - even if you've been convicted for insider trading and are a sexual predator.

[Hope]

I dislike Delta Quadra's tendency to create moral pecking orders. They organize people around them as inferior or superior based on their perceived virtue (they often conflate "not being scary" with "socially approved" with virtue). If you are a polite, clean-shaven accountant who votes Hillary, you can do no wrong in their eyes - even if you've been convicted for insider trading and are a sexual predator.

Political alignment and ideologies are hardly quadra related imo, and SJWs are not typically Delta (not according theory at least) since SJWs oppose to delta values (Si, Fi, Te). And just in case, considering as unerring example of Deltas (and quadra moral) the few ppl you have seen in this forum is off the track. We are not valuable as sample or study population. Frequent forum posters are few and there is no guarantee of the correctness of their type.

[velveteen]

I dislike Delta Quadra's tendency to create moral pecking orders. They organize people around them as inferior or superior based on their perceived virtue (they often conflate "not being scary" with "socially approved" with virtue). If you are a polite, clean-shaven accountant who votes Hillary, you can do no wrong in their eyes - even if you've been convicted for insider trading and are a sexual predator.

I work with a girl with this exact same mentality and I just find her so self righteous and hypocritical. I have a very relaxed approach to work where I try to create a friendly and warm atmosphere where everyone feels included and from day one, she’s DESPISED me for it - she hates people who don’t follow her idea of what’s normal. I’m certain she trashes me behind my back to workmates, she passively makes snide remarks which I can only pinpoint down to bitterness... she punishes people because she doesn’t like or agree with them, not because they are a piece of shit. For instance, she treats me like shit because my approach to work is calm and I refuse to compete with her and stoop to her level by passively attacking her methods, but she’ll frigging love and befriend a horrible employee whose done far worse things than I have and not care about all the crap they’ve put others through... because there’s something about them she personally likes lol. Really disrespectful and nonsensical.

[Zero]

Clipped wings complex and aristocratic traits would be the areas of Deltas wrong doings. I also think the perception of good/wrong is related to your our personal or quadra values. F.e. aristocratic rights can hurt/offend gammas sense of equality/democracy.

In short:
SLI can ignore you/push you away and dont give a damn if you interfere with his well being or fail to motivate him.
LSE can be mouthy and looking too much for having a profit.
IEE can be sycophantic and hoaxing( for experimental purposes only).
EII can become manipulative, paranoid>neurotic and prideful.

Humm that one was good, can you write one about gammas in the gamma subforum maybe? (:

[Sol]

it needs to look in superego, first of all

SLI can ignore you/push you away and dont give a damn if you interfere with his well being or fail to motivate him.
LSE can be mouthy and looking too much for having a profit.

mouthy - any extravert
looking too much for having a profit - LSE generally think how to do things better. Se valued seek for material profit

Ni - bad strategic thinking, surface thinking
Fe - low control of bad emotions expression, may look indifferent to people

> IEE can be sycophantic and hoaxing ( for experimental purposes only).
EII can become manipulative, paranoid>neurotic and prideful.

sycophantic - any F
hoaxing - not much specific to this type
manipulative - any F
paranoid, prideful - more about S types as relates to weak Ne, as incorrect understanding of probable and traits/situation in general

Ti - informal relations lead to corruption of duties and conformism based on sympathies, not much reasonable
Se - insufficient interest to material needs and their protection

[Bertrand]

yeah thats just a straw man caricature of delta. if someone is willing to overlook sexual predation for being clean shaven (delta is into hair anyway...), that can hardly be said to be a property of quadra. however if the situation is a statutory rape one, maybe delta would look past the "letter of the law" before passing personal judgment

[CumInAllSiEgos]

Incel SLI's

[niffer]

Delta evil in general would probably manifest in nepotism and favoritism being taken to extremes. So like the autistic inbred EII king who is untouchable and can't be removed from the throne because he's the rightful heir even though he can't count to 3 and is completely impotent, and anybody who breathes wrong around him is instantly beheaded.

In general, misuse and abuse of power by delta NFs who have made themselves untouchable due to some kind of ethical meritocratic benefits they've acquired. And the STs who propagate it because they stand to gain from it somehow too and the NFs need some people around to help them tie their shoelaces and wash the toilets, activities which they pretend to be incapable of doing because they hate them so much.

[Pallas]

Brave New World

The fact that you have to ask means you’re already there.

[niffer]

hotelambush just never wants to admit he's wrong or that he went too far with making assumptions

[youfloweryourfeast]

It would be, sensory indulgence or like a husband who leaves his wife and kids for someone more beautiful, so in this case an LSE he takes all his belongings, money, and it's to make himself feel better. In the case with Si and Fi it can create repetitiveness in life, difficulty feeling pleasure so you do pointless things over and over thinking it will make you happy, or feeling like you need to change but your trapped in something you created this dark thing.

continuing..
some Delta sts can be more malicious than others, and even more selfish/pleasure seeking for themselves than the Delta nfs. This is because the xNFPs are seeing emotionally, the patterns in what they do and how it's harmings others, where as some Delta sts cannot access their shadow to stop themselves from wanting people, objects, or pleasure.
How ever the NFs can't or sometimes struggle to control their emotions, and can be manipulative to others without being able to linearly process their thinking to align with others/change their mindsets. This is due to weak ti and conscious te that can create inconsistencies and very vague/not catered to reality to make sense of what they are doing., ie or saying to others.

It manifests and can be more of a struggle for EIIs due to not being able to connect to reality and struggling to see patterns. In the case of IEEs they can do things without understanding the impact and it creates something destructive, or twisting others words to fit their own.

Some of these patterns can be observed in the delta quadra when it manifests as a feeling or pleasure they are trapped in that they want to continue or feel.. This can make them have warped perceptions of themselves, or others/reality.

[Muira]

Evil can be found in all types, some more than others on average.

Insecure Fi bases become a huge problem, especially if they are men.

IEEs start mimicking their SEE counterparts.

LSEs in all hell are capable of anything.



The least potential for evil for delta is SLI.


But again, it's only SSS in which you have valued functions or any emphasis in quadra segregation.

[youfloweryourfeast]

SLIs have strong te and sensing they could really do whatever they want almost

[Muira]

Mind my language

True, but their dominant function is Si, and demo as Ti.

SLIs are less likely to have their shit hit the sealing over an ideal, or rules they made to impose, or a vision to enforce on society like LXXs. Or really have the ability to effectively emotionally manipulate people, even with experience to balance their lower dimensional functions.

Even some SEIs and EIIs are fuck up, but they are usually men. Something about being feminine in TIM and men that has to do something with being batshit crazy if they didn't learn to not give a fuck. Has something to do with being rejected by society.

[youfloweryourfeast]

It's true that EIIs and SEIs could be a bit more mentally ill things due to the environment or circumstances that can sometimes influence this. Contrary most women are not very feminine/sweet despite, EIEs sometimes can be, but can also be cold hearted or your like mean high school English teacher who sometimes struggles with filling her papers, but will yell at you.
Though IEIs are not gonna be bossy really and can show acts of charity if they want.
SEIs and EIIs are usually men for that reason..I've never met an SEI women irl so.

LxE tend to be more business managers and can sometimes be cold, and hide things from you, so that would make SLIs being seen as less evil (but they can do something secretly though with si and ti demo being strong and se ignoring, so you won't know)

[anotherperson]

a delta evil world would he most likely cold and grey. the meme is that beta evil is like a chaotic hellscape with fighting and bizarre conspiracies so delts would be the opposite: a sort of desolate world with little emotions, people doing the same types of thhings all the time, the thought process becomes vague and obscure

about "evil" deltas as types:

- EII: removal/seperation from the environment, complacency and resignation

- IEE: gets into the "insides" of people, invasive, manipulation

- SLI: weak ability to comply/integrate , self-rightousness and lack of transparency

- LSE: difficulty understanding others' weaknesses, callous and aristocratic

[CumInAllSiEgos]

Mmm yes i like getting inside of ppl and manipulate their insides

[one]

The Delta Demon is the lack of vision/drive for innovation.

They don’t fight for a cause because they have no vision. They judge people superficially and think many things are all smoke and mirrors because they can’t see the vision. They are not intense and outwardly passionate since they have nothing to show, because again, they have no vision. That’s why they’re the opposite of Beta. There’s just no intense things going on because they can’t fathom lofty things like that. Fertile minds are in Beta.