My interaction with dual is stressful - is this normal?

[slownumbers]

Okay, as I mentioned in another post, I met my first dual that I know of a few months ago. Although I really like her, I was thinking back on our interactions and remembering that some of our interactions were quite stressful after the fact. Meaning, after I spent time with her, I would worry that I did or said the wrong thing, and felt on edge about it, or down about myself afterward. Also I noticed that she would frustrate me on multiple occasions.

Is this common for dual interaction in the beginning, or something unrelated to socionics?

[Lobo]

I don't see how anybody here can tell you if it's normal or not... But, I can tell you that it's happened to me.

[slownumbers]

I don't see how anybody here can tell you if it's normal or not... But, I can tell you that it's happened to me.

Interesting... Did it stay that way, or get less stressful over time? Oh and I guess instead of asking if its "normal" I should ask if its "common".

[Creepy-Korpsey]

That's related to introversion, and even more to self esteem, to confidence, and particularly to the general uncertainty of hopes matching with realities in interpersonal affairs.

[Trevor]

It can happen.

[Lobo]

Interesting... Did it stay that way, or get less stressful over time? Oh and I guess instead of asking if its "normal" I should ask if its "common".

Over time they would cause me less stress. However, I've been noticing how I gradually have lost interest in LSEs as that has happened... It's like the attraction has lessened considerable with STs. I do have a couple of good LSE friends, but idk if I'd be interested later in starting anew with another. To me it requires work that I'm not willing to put out anymore.

What Korpsey said is also true with one particular interaction with an LSE.

[Beautiful sky]

Okay, as I mentioned in another post, I met my first dual that I know of a few months ago. Although I really like her, I was thinking back on our interactions and remembering that some of our interactions were quite stressful after the fact. Meaning, after I spent time with her, I would worry that I did or said the wrong thing, and felt on edge about it, or down about myself afterward. Also I noticed that she would frustrate me on multiple occasions.

Is this common for dual interaction in the beginning, or something unrelated to socionics?

Usually no. You should be as verbally expressive as you can. If she's your dual, she'll agree with you or understand you and no matter how hard you try you won't be able to force conflict in. If you do create conflict (like yelling matches) than she's not your dual.

[Creepy-male]

^Is that even true for Beta dual pairs?

Duality gets more comfortable over time. It's quite possible to experience a lot of friction as you learn your dual's language.

[Beautiful sky]

There were a few times I've seen duals (usually at the beginning stage) try to compete and one up each other, but usually, if they don't leave and stick around within a few months they really love each other because of this whole thing that if you don't have a dual while growing up, you yourself try to assume your dual's role in your own mind (like a psychological coping mechanism). Because of this, you have a hard time relinquishing control and recognizing that your dual is naturally good at the thing that stresses you out. Once the roles/tasks are divided within the dual pairing, the relationship is very wonderful.

[shapeofthings]

I would like to hear about this as well. If anyone has some Dual stories to share, please do. Especially about the early stages.

And eh, me and my Dual argue a lot. And then we move on. There's lot of friction, charge. Always something going on, very dynamic, not static at all. I didn't have Duals around growing up, and we definately find it hard to communicate sometimes. It's not boring, to say the least.

Makes no rational sense, why we love each other so much, and why just being in his space energizes, soothes and balances me so much.

I wonder if there's this place that we'll 'reach' or is our relationship going to be like this for as long as it lasts. Then again, after each time and each frustration, I feel closer to him, and we do seem to develop our understanding of each other in the process. I feel like I'm growing, as an individual, a lot in this relationship.

And slownumbers, you shouldn't worry about what is normal. I do best with mine when I just follow my Ni, I've never been as accurate about which course of action to take with a person as I am with him (or maybe I have, but he responds to it in a way that shows me immediately I was correct, and that strengthens my trust on mi Ni). When I start to doubt myself, that's were it all seems to be going to ARSE. The more carefree I am the better my Dual always responds: funny but the more you are yourself the better. So stop doubting yourself I know been there / still there but TRUST ME. The more naturally YOU you are, the better. So just follow your guts and do and say what you feel like doing/saying. Your dual won't judge you.

Maybe the whole Duality relationship is just that. Moving from that getting to know your Dual phase (that can be plenty stressfull and depending on your own maturity, experience with duals, and lotsa other stuff too mebbe) and realizing wow this person really fucking likes you just-as-you-are, meaning you can literally drop all your usual boundaries and stuff to trash you've learnt so well to do during the course of your socialization. We're not naturally programmed to be used to that level of acceptance and expression of our truest selves because we have to keep so much away starting from our most everyday encounters.

But that's just the theory, anyway.

[Krig the Viking]

There were a few times I've seen duals (usually at the beginning stage) try to compete and one up each other, but usually, if they don't leave and stick around within a few months they really love each other because of this whole thing that if you don't have a dual while growing up, you yourself try to assume your dual's role in your own mind (like a psychological coping mechanism). Because of this, you have a hard time relinquishing control and recognizing that your dual is naturally good at the thing that stresses you out. Once the roles/tasks are divided within the dual pairing, the relationship is very wonderful.

Awesome. I agree. Your understanding of socionics has really grown deeper since you got here, Maritsa.

Maybe the whole Duality relationship is just that. Moving from that getting to know your Dual phase (that can be plenty stressfull and depending on your own maturity, experience with duals, and lotsa other stuff too mebbe) and realizing wow this person really fucking likes you just-as-you-are, meaning you can literally drop all your usual boundaries and stuff to trash you've learnt so well to do during the course of your socialization. We're not naturally programmed to be used to that level of acceptance and expression of our truest selves because we have to keep so much away starting from our most everyday encounters.

But that's just the theory, anyway.

I think you're on to something there. For undualized people, it's extremely strange to find someone with whom you don't have to pretend, because most of us have forgotten how to not pretend.

[buckland]

Awesome. I agree. Your understanding of socionics has really grown deeper since you got here, Maritsa.

With the number of posts she's got, she's statistically bound to bump into something true every once in a while.

[Ezra]

Weird. It shouldn't be stressful, it should be easy & the interactions should flow naturally. I've never even had an argument with a Dual. If we have a disagreement we can usually talk it out in a way that we both can see each others perspectives. They may lecture on subjects such as strength, drive, & confidence, but that sort of thing helps me become stronger, if anything. Eh, maybe I'm just lucky.

I remember talking to a SLE poster through PM who said the SLE - IEI dynamic was a bit difficult in the beginning. Strangely, I've never had experience with that. I think you all over analyze these things.

It does happen.

I think you're just lucky.

[Creepy-male]

It does happen.

I think you're just lucky.

Starfall has already confessed to trying to "spread the love" of her perfect happy ideal dual relationship.

Plus... even without that performance pressure, who's going to openly admit to relationship difficulties on a public forum?

[Slacker]

My husband and I have been together for like 13 years or something now and it's hard to remember just how things were early on. I remember the first few dates thinking he didn't like me and wondering why he'd keep wanting to see me. And we had one really big fight early on. Also, I met him when he was visiting the US, but he was living elsewhere, so he went home after we'd only known each other like two weeks. By the time he got back to see me again, things were smooth between us, but maybe if he'd been here that whole time things would have been harder between us during that adjustment period.

[tiny_dancer]

Are you sure you're not just being oversensitive because you have a crush on the person?

Usually when I am really attracted to someone it skews my perception, and it just goes downhill from there.

[Exodus]

Okay, as I mentioned in another post, I met my first dual that I know of a few months ago. Although I really like her, I was thinking back on our interactions and remembering that some of our interactions were quite stressful after the fact. Meaning, after I spent time with her, I would worry that I did or said the wrong thing, and felt on edge about it, or down about myself afterward. Also I noticed that she would frustrate me on multiple occasions.

Is this common for dual interaction in the beginning, or something unrelated to socionics?

ok, I'm not one to argue that Duality is some perfect kind of relationship, but this seems highly unlikely.

[Slacker]

Are you sure you're not just being oversensitive because you have a crush on the person?

Usually when I am really attracted to someone it skews my perception, and it just goes downhill from there.

I agree with this, and I think it might be even worse if you're the introvert. How many times have you been out together? Is this a romantic situation - I mean it sounds like you have romantic feelings but does she understand it that way as well, or are you like hanging out with friends? Are you in pursuit or actually dating? There are lots of non-socionic reasons why you could be having these kinds of feelings as they are very common for any people when they're pursuing someone they're interested in.

[DirectorAbbie]

A dual being stressful? I've never been stressed by an EII. I know an SLI who'se been stressed by an IEE, but only because he misunderstands her and does what she didn't want him to.

[slownumbers]

Are you sure you're not just being oversensitive because you have a crush on the person?

Usually when I am really attracted to someone it skews my perception, and it just goes downhill from there.

Yeah I guess this probably sums the situation up pretty accurately
It doesn't feel stressful at all when we're actually together, just afterward I analyze what I've said and worry I about it. I'm sure I wouldn't care or think about it afterward if I wasn't interested in her romantically. She knows that I was interested, and she just wanted to be friends.

[Skeptic]

You're two different individuals with different mannerisms, beliefs, tendencies and so forth... I mean, of course you may just as well have outright conflict with your dual. Nothing is for certain.

Hell, keep in mind your dual's 1st and 2nd functions are things you naturally suppress in you unconscious, so it's likely that you would encounter more frustration with your dual than your identical. And there's the intro-extro difference and it is probably difficult to settle such differences...

But the stuff I describe here will be problematic later down the line, what you probably experienced probably has little to do with socionics, but rather your own immediate interpretation of a physical situation that could have happened with anyone you know

[Creepy-male]

Eh? Not sure what you're talking about.

It was one of the IEIs, and it was something largely to that effect.

[Ave]

I can assure you that Maritsa lives in lala land.

[silke]

In socionics descriptions of duality I have found a passage that stated that duals tend to perceive each other as independent and capable people. Thus the risk of passing each other by or backing out of it (out of low self-esteem). And into beginning stages of relationships I would expect this same issue to interfere - the partner that is less emotionally sensitive making some blunder, the partner that is more emotionally sensitive taking that to mean that they aren't good enough and proceeding to distance.

Make sure though that you have identified your dual correctly and haven't run into your conflictor instead. To untrained eye they might look the same and sometimes conflictors take an interest in each other because they are so different, it can be intriguing initially. If you have mis-typed the other person and it is indeed a conflictor type your emotions may be trying to point out that they aren't a good match for you.

[Variant]

In socionics descriptions of duality I have found a passage that stated that duals tend to perceive each other as independent and capable people. Thus the risk of passing each other by or backing out of it (out of low self-esteem). And into beginning stages of relationships I would expect this same issue to interfere - the partner that is less emotionally sensitive making some blunder, the partner that is more emotionally sensitive taking that to mean that they aren't good enough and proceeding to distance.

So true, this ISTJ girl that I interacted with thought she did something wrong and she apologized to me online- and i was like wat...But yeah seriously it was just a misunderstanding , nonetheless i did feel a little bit bad about the it. But i must perservere! O btw, who is more likely to get attracted to which ISTJ --> ENFJ? or the opposite?

[Creepy-Snaps]

Okay, as I mentioned in another post, I met my first dual that I know of a few months ago. Although I really like her, I was thinking back on our interactions and remembering that some of our interactions were quite stressful after the fact. Meaning, after I spent time with her, I would worry that I did or said the wrong thing, and felt on edge about it, or down about myself afterward. Also I noticed that she would frustrate me on multiple occasions.

Is this common for dual interaction in the beginning, or something unrelated to socionics?

Yes, it is very common in the beginning of dual relationships. /endthread

And like others noted... you really liked her. So of course, you'll be especially nervous to make a good impression.

If she's your dual, she'll agree with you or understand you and no matter how hard you try you won't be able to force conflict in.

Wow. Just wow for that statement. Every relationship takes work. Even duals. You always gotta work on your communication, work on everything. To say that, if you wanted to start trouble, you *wouldn't* be able to... is just crazy. If you're destructive, you can ruin any relationship you want.

I can assure you that Maritsa lives in lala land.

Yeah... thought that too with her description of 'perfect dual bliss', but I did like her other post on this thread.



... In regards to you, Starfall.

I do believe 'perfect' 'non-argumentative' relationships do exist... but from personal experience, it seems like they are more likely to exist with people who truly aren't chasing anything in life, who lack goals, or lack any real problems, such as coordinating jobs and money, or raising kids, etc.

It's easy to be perfectly happy with someone, if you never have to go through any real trouble together.

I don't wish ill upon you, or your relationship. But you seem to be in happy, youthful, naive, lala land a bit yourself. I hope you can effectively fight through any troubles you and your 'dual' boyfriend come across... then, tell me arguments never happen.

[mu4]

I think different dual relationships have different levels of DRAMA.

I know this one SLE-Se/IEI-Fe relationship where there was a lot of "You can't talk to this person", "You can't talk to that person" going around and it spilled over to everyone.

But they are now having a child together, but have distanced themselves from other people they used to know.

Meeting and having interaction with a dual isn't like a magical experience, but it will probably change you.

[Creepy-Snaps]

I know this one SLE-Se/IEI-Fe relationship where there was a lot of "You can't talk to this person", "You can't talk to that person" going around and it spilled over to everyone.

Sadly true... My IEI and I have both gotten very jealous of each other's being friends with certain people, or talking to certain people.

I'd like to say we're kind of getting past that.. we know we're very much committed to each other.

To be honest... I think the vast majority of this thread, is thinking of "dual relationships" in terms of "romantic relationships"... therefore, a lot of the "stress" can be just taking a romantic relationship seriously, trying hard to make something work, trying to 'be your best' for the person you like...

So I think the better question for the rest of this thread would be... how stressful are dual relationships with friends?

[FDG]

My own dual relationship's stressfulness (going on for almost 4 years now, thus the number of observations should have surpassed the edge of significance) follows a quickly decaying negative exponential distribution, with frequency on the x axis (and degree on the y axis). Thus 98% of the time it's stress-free, 1.5 % of the time it's slightly stressful, 0.5 % highly stressful. Generally, stressors are related to differing expectations towards life-matters (ex. differing goals, mostly due to inbuilt NTR differences: I don't want to live in a cold, damp place, whereas she wouldn't mind if she managed to land an interesting job position).

trying hard to make something work, trying to 'be your best' for the person you like.

That's a sick way to look at romantic relationships.

[Creepy-Snaps]

That's a sick way to look at romantic relationships.

Why must ENTjs always correct me...

That's not 'how I view' romantic relationships. Was just saying some people might try to impress the person at first, like slownumbers did when first 'hanging out' with his dual... which I think we all do, to some degree, try to show our positive qualities at first.

Of course a relationship can be fun and enjoyable. And you can open up and be fully comfortable, not just 'being your best' or having to push to 'make it work'. Of course it should be enjoyable.

I still think realistically, relationships can be work to maintain, that everyone's natural tendencies is to drift away... that's all I was saying. But I'll probably get criticized for that again. =\

Doesn't mean keeping the relationship alive can't be fun also...

[Slacker]

My dual relationship now is pretty without drama or argument, and we really have nothing to argue about as we agree about most stuff, I'm home with the kids so we have no arguments there, no money problems, agree about religion and politics, none of the common issues that couples have. The first few months or so living together though were at least somewhat an adjustment. We had that one big fight. Then no more fights for like 10 years, and then one other fight. It really is pretty darn drama free. Of course a dual relationship involving an SLI might look different than a dual relationship involving an EIE. LOL.

But anyway, this is a dual relationship 10-15 years later. A dual relationship at the beginning is going to take a bit of work because any time you stop putting yourself and your individual needs first, it's an adjustment. Living together is another adjustment initially, because you have to come to agreement on a trillion little things. We didn't have trouble coming to agreement except for that one fight, but we did have to find agreement on stuff like what time to eat, who does the cooking (when we were both working), who does the laundry, how do you sort laundry - as you take it off or all at once on laundry day, bathroom cleaning, how to best load the dishwasher, not leaving clothes on the floor. I mean there are millions of these issues, most of them pretty small but each one involved a discussion and agreement. Our one fight was over priorities - if work and home conflict, who wins? The Delta answer is "home", however I was not raised by Deltas and I thought "work" is what anyone would choose.

[nanashi]

There were a few times I've seen duals (usually at the beginning stage) try to compete and one up each other, but usually, if they don't leave and stick around within a few months they really love each other because of this whole thing that if you don't have a dual while growing up, you yourself try to assume your dual's role in your own mind (like a psychological coping mechanism). Because of this, you have a hard time relinquishing control and recognizing that your dual is naturally good at the thing that stresses you out. Once the roles/tasks are divided within the dual pairing, the relationship is very wonderful.

Aestrivex, I wonder if you and I have done this? I know I'm 5w6 sx/so and INTp-Te, but occasionally I confuse people, and once in a blue moon get weirded out at seeing myself, because I sometimes assume SEE-Fi 7w8 behavior. I just saw the need for SEE-ness when I was little. And it's weird because I'm sometimes enjoying my new dual but chameleon as them, too, at first.

[Suz]

I agree with a lot of what's already been said here in this thread.

I've come to realize that one of the big tests of whether someone is a dual (or fellow quadra-member for that matter) is how comfortable vs neurotic do they make you feel. If you feel comfy with a particular person, there are, on some subconscious level, shared socionic values. If you feel tense, nervous, judged, things always coming across the wrong way both ways, even though both are approaching each other with a neutral to good intent, suspect conflict or supervision. A distinction to make in assessing this, though, is do you feel nervous/judged because of some outside reasons like there are rumors the person is mean/intense/judgy/crazy or, say, self-criticism because of special feelings like a crush (as a few people have already mentioned)? What I mentioned does not apply then. This is something you will need to sort out via introspection.

The thing with conflictors is they can seem like your duals, until you realize they arent (they are your duals' quasi-identicals). With conflict, you can actually get along if you keep interaction to a minimum and dont take what your conflictor says too much too heart. Dont plan on getting close with your conflictor though because that is when it can become painful. To illustrate this a bit, one of my bosses (I have a bunch of bosses right now) is likely an LSI. Right off the bat when i started having exposure to this boss, I just felt this inexplicable need to cower and avoid interaction. I felt highly intimidated. I felt like everything i did was met with haughty disapproval and that my contributions were worthless. As a result i kept interaction to as minimum as I could. I could have sworn this guy hated my work. Well, turns out he actually gave me a glowing eval. I suspect the positive view was in part influenced by this LSI's right hand person, who I suspect is an LSE. LSE thinks very highly of me and values me a lot. Now that I know the LSI thinks well of me, it feels a little better working with him, but he still will often say things that, to me, seem totally hurtful, but just being aware that he is my conflictor I think to myself that he likely didn't mean it the way I took it. He also wants me to work more closely with him next year but I know that will be bad news (seeing how he slave-drives his current minion - not sure what type she is, ESE maybe). No freaking way. Even though I like him. That's how it is with conflictors. You dont mesh well and cringe at each other but keep saying to yourself, "he/she means well", "he/she didn't mean it that way", etc. This is why conflict leads to neurosis but isn't actually outright literal "CONFLICT" and isn't the most explosive of intertypes. You tend to sense the need to keep your distance from both sides.

Supervision can be, for some reason I cant explain, like a relationship trap; many bad marriages or failed friendships turn out to be some variety of supervision, which means they did like each other enough to fall in love/get married or become good friends in the first place.The badness/misunderstanding doesn't manifest until later. In conflict the sensation it's like right off the bat, and you know to watch out.

Duality, or activity or identity for that matter, when juxtaposed with conflictor relationships, the difference is really noticeable. You gravitate to these people, because you feel "safe". You know they like you, without needing an eval to tell you that. You dont get misunderstood. Things you say dont get misconstrued. You dont wonder why they made a certain comment. You value what they provide to you. They value you. You just feel free to say what you want to say. In conflict you sense your comment was unwelcome or stupid right away. In supervision you may feel free to be yourself at first but turns out deep down your supervisor was judging you negatively the whole time; then you lose trust in them, and that's a HORRIBLE feeling.

I recently had an excellent experience with an LSE boss for a month (activity). She, however, had a reputation of being "intense", "stern," and "particular" and "forcing" her minions to work long hours" with her, so I went into this stint a bit nervous, expecting the worst. However, i quickly realized that we were particular in the same way, so there was no friction there, and she was basically a teaching machine, so i actually didn't mind the long hours... I'd spend more time working with her if i could--miss her already! (I did get exhausted physically and didn't sleep a whole lot that month though). At first, i could tell she was a bit skeptical (probably because so many people working for her just didn't meet her expectations), but when both of us realized we were likeminded and had similar work standards in mind, it just became fun, and tbh relaxing, working with her. We would laugh, joke, confide in each other. When I was having a bad day or stressed about something, she would walk in a give me a hug or be like "are you ok?". And then the all-important question... "did you eat?". She's like 20-30 years older than me and knows 1000x more than me, but instead of feeling intimidated, it just totally felt like we were friends. Easy. Though, as is the case with activity relations, a bit exhausting.

[FoxOnStilts]

I don't think you're stressed because it's your dual. You're stressed because it's someone you met and want to impress/want to like you, so you overthink and worry about it. It's human to do so. Whether or not this person is your dual is irrelevant to that.

[lemontrees]

There were a few times I've seen duals (usually at the beginning stage) try to compete and one up each other

My duals have tried to tell me how to cook things, since they're "clever" and have "mastered" the best way (......)

The other day an ILE told me that the color I wanted to paint my dresser was "gaudy" and that I should use a "stain rather than a paint." He told me that he knew better because he had studied color theory.

[Korpsy Knievel]

*cough*

[betterthan]

If you think you can't fight, get pissed off or stressed with your dual, you need to get out of the socionics bubble!

[Absurd]

Hmm, wonder why interactions go so smoothly between duals on this forum.

[fen]

My duals have tried to tell me how to cook things, since they're "clever" and have "mastered" the best way (......)

The other day an ILE told me that the color I wanted to paint my dresser was "gaudy" and that I should use a "stain rather than a paint." He told me that he knew better because he had studied color theory.

That kinda stuff drives me crazy. :S

[Azure Flame]

I have a dual who doesn't STFU. I hate her and she is therefore a stupid bitch.