Physical Attraction/Repulsion

[Kim]

But the irony here is that you're being a judgemental bitch towards me because i'm a judgemental bitch.

I find your motives far more questionable than mine. I just don't like it when people get hurt by pointless visciousness. My NeFi doesn't like it.

[Ritella]

umm, hate to throw a wrench in this, but everyone who is like "fat people need to lose weight for their health!" is a bit delusional/full of shit, IMO. I really think we use that as a justification, but the truth is that people just don't like looking at fat and generally unattractive people. People want fat people to lose weight because they think "ehw" and/or "how could they live like that?" because the person thinking that would have a problem being like that, himself.
really, in any other quality that poses an analogous health risk, do you start demanding as vehemently that people change it? When you see tanorexic models smoking do you say "ehw. you'll die of skin cancer, lung cancer, and be unable to have children!"?

[Kim]

Yes. I agree. Which is why Mimosa's response confused me. I don't know how you can say you're attracted to someone and call them ugly at the same time. Does not compute.

I believe she meant that they would widely be considered ugly, but she would be attracted to them, not that she would consider them ugly.

[duality is cringe]

Right, so if they have sever mental health issues, treating them like shit is what causes the best results? Guy, are you serious, or what?

Obesity due to severe mental issues still has to be addressed. Bluntly.

What does this have to do with your other point, sorry?

The tone of your post struck me as favoring passing acceptence of obesity or civility over saying fat people are gross. I'm not sure which of the two is has been more prevalent throughout the life of an obese person, but I'm still betting on the latter being more effective at convincing them to address their weight problem.

It would accomplish that if one isn't perfect, he-she should shut the fuck up about other people's physical imperfections.

You don't have to be perfect to tease associating a health risk as a valid lifestyle choice.

[Creepy-Diana]

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[Lotus]

Butterface?

[Ritella]

Well, like the picture jessica posted, here obese is generally met with feelings of nausea and the sudden urge to protect the snickers bar you've got in your pocket.

ahahahah. beautiful.

for relationships, i'd be lying if i said there wasn't a physical attractiveness threshold; however, ppl definitely become better-looking and worse-looking the more you know them.

yeah, i agree with this. i think there's a range, and people move up or down depending on how much you like them. for me, i begin to find a person's mannerisms or facial expressions really attractive if i like them as people; sort of like the look they have "behind the eyes."

lol - I love that you called it a "relationship," even if it only lasts "two or three nights." That sort of seems like an IEI thing to say - seems to romanticize something that is probably much more about physical pleasure than anything else

unfortunately, i would too because that's the only kinda relationship i've ever had.

And that's not a problem. A problem is your constant bashing and ridiculing when the topic comes up. Do you think that is going to inspire an obese person to join you at the gym and change something? You can have a preference or dislike and be civil about it.

Umm, no offense Kim, but I think Jessica is just stating her opinion. I don't see what the difference is here than in any other time that anyone states his or her opinion on anything. And she's not saying "fat people suck" like it's some general fact; she's just honestly describing her reaction.

[Kim]

Umm, no offense Kim, but I think Jessica is just stating her opinion. I don't see what the difference is here than in any other time that anyone states his or her opinion on anything. And she's not saying "fat people suck" like it's some general fact; she's just honestly describing her reaction.

In this thread, yes. That's what I implied when I said I don't have a problem with having an opinion or an aversion. There are things about people I dislike. But I was referring to some comments in other threads that I found mean and unnecessarily viscious. But it's also not fair of me to single out Jessica, so I will say: DAMN ALL YOU MEAN PEOPLE! MY NEFI DESPISES YOU! I WILL SEND MY BIG BAD SE BOYFRIEND AFTER YOU AND HE WILL SHOW YOU!

I will add, to be fair, that of course I take this personally because while I was able to reverse things due to favorable circumstances, I did get a glimpse of what it feels like to exceed the "acceptable" weight limit and being bashed for something that you feel you don't have control over really sucks. It's a pretty awful viscious cycle.

[Lotus]

As much as people like to say, "appearances can be deceiving," I've found that my physical impression of other people is more often than not right.

[Ritella]

In this thread, yes. That's what I implied when I said I don't have a problem with having an opinion or an aversion. There are things about people I dislike. But I was referring to some comments in other threads that I found mean and unnecessarily viscious. But it's also not fair of me to single out Jessica, so I will say: DAMN ALL YOU MEAN PEOPLE! MY NEFI DESPISES YOU! I WILL SEND MY BIG BAD SE BOYFRIEND AFTER YOU AND HE WILL SHOW YOU!

okay, right, but when you accuse people for things that happen in another context you will generally get a "WTF?!" reaction, unless you specifically preface your comments with an explanation.

I will add, to be fair, that of course I take this personally because while I was able to reverse things due to favorable circumstances, I did get a glimpse of what it feels like to exceed the "acceptable" weight limit and being bashed for something that you feel you don't have control over really sucks. It's a pretty awful viscious cycle.

yeah. it seemed pretty much like you were overreacting for possible personal reasons. i know how you feel, and i'm sorry that certain things have to pain you, but overreacting often just leads to unnecessarily victimizing another person, so best to keep it in check if you can. not that you have to follow this advice, i'm just saying...my own personal philosophy.

[dbmmama]

As much as people like to say, "appearances can be deceiving," I've found that my physical impression of other people is more often than not right.

+1

[jessica129]

In this thread, yes. That's what I implied when I said I don't have a problem with having an opinion or an aversion. There are things about people I dislike. But I was referring to some comments in other threads that I found mean and unnecessarily viscious. But it's also not fair of me to single out Jessica, so I will say: DAMN ALL YOU MEAN PEOPLE! MY NEFI DESPISES YOU! I WILL SEND MY BIG BAD SE BOYFRIEND AFTER YOU AND HE WILL SHOW YOU!

I will add, to be fair, that of course I take this personally because while I was able to reverse things due to favorable circumstances, I did get a glimpse of what it feels like to exceed the "acceptable" weight limit and being bashed for something that you feel you don't have control over really sucks. It's a pretty awful viscious cycle.

I would never, ever make fun of someone in real life. I hate to toot my own horn here, but I am probobly one of the nicest people you could meet....if i do say so myself. Sometimes, yeah, I have taken it to the extreme on the forums and I have regretted it a bit but I still can't change my views. I'm sorry if i have offended people...i really don't realize when I am offending them and I can be a bit blunt at times. I don't know why I have such a strong aversion to this...i don't know...maybe i was a fat person in previous lives?

[strrrng]

I will add, to be fair, that of course I take this personally because while I was able to reverse things due to favorable circumstances, I did get a glimpse of what it feels like to exceed the "acceptable" weight limit and being bashed for something that you feel you don't have control over really sucks. It's a pretty awful viscious cycle.

It's fine to take it personally. But when that dissipates into a rational debate, the position will seem out of context and sort of baseless. I can understand empathizing with a group of people with a similar problem from past experience, but that doesn't mean you are somehow right. Hence how you said "feel out of control"—who's fault is that? Who's fault is it to let other people hurt you with mean comments about something like weight? It may not be nice or necessary, but we shouldn't complain about things like that. Self-sufficiency is key with everything. I don't expect handouts or pity for anything, so forgive me if I come across as callous.

[Kim]

okay, right, but when you accuse people for things that happen in another context you will generally get a "WTF?!" reaction, unless you specifically preface your comments with an explanation.

She knew what I was referring to though. But to others it was probably misleading.

yeah. it seemed pretty much like you were overreacting for possible personal reasons. i know how you feel, and i'm sorry that certain things have to pain you, but overreacting often just leads to unnecessarily victimizing another person, so best to keep it in check if you can. not that you have to follow this advice, i'm just saying...my own personal philosophy.

I don't think I was overreacting so much as perhaps rather bringing a new perspective. This is something that is always discussed in a big picture context of "fat people are this or that" rather than "this is how a fat person can feel or these are reasons why your behavior can make it all worse." I don't see how that is victimizing. I see it as perhaps sharing a perspective that not everyone has. I do think I took it out on Jessica and I am sorry for that, but from my perspective, I am far from overreacting.

Ironically, I am not really personally offended these days because I am not "there," but it's a personal issue. Anyway, back to things away from the scale.

[Ritella]

I would never, ever make fun of someone in real life. I hate to toot my own horn here, but I am probobly one of the nicest people you could meet....if i do say so myself. Sometimes, yeah, I have taken it to the extreme on the forums and I have regretted it a bit but I still can't change my views. I'm sorry if i have offended people...i really don't realize when I am offending them and I can be a bit blunt at times. I don't know why I have such a strong aversion to this...i don't know...maybe i was a fat person in previous lives?

This is pretty common with SLIs. IME, they tend to look at people and make these sort of snap value judgements on the person's character based on his/her physical appearance. My SLI friend makes comments like "ehw. what is wrong with him? why does he dress like that?," "he has such a big forehead. he looks retarded," etc.. (I think this is SLIs using their Si leading to try to figure out their Fi HA.) It can be a little off-putting at first because it gives people the impression that the SLI is superficial and mean, but IME the SLI doesn't actually intend it in this way. As Jessica said, they are usually very nice to people, and not because they are being "fake nice," but because they realize deep down that they suck at evaluating people's character and are open to positive qualities that they may have not foreseen. And that is basically why they need their IEE dual.

[Kim]

It's fine to take it personally. But when that dissipates into a rational debate, the position will seem out of context and sort of baseless. I can understand empathizing with a group of people with a similar problem from past experience, but that doesn't mean you are somehow right. Hence how you said "feel out of control"—who's fault is that? Who's fault is it to let other people hurt you with mean comments about something like weight? It may not be nice or necessary, but we shouldn't complain about things like that. Self-sufficiency is key with everything. I don't expect handouts or pity for anything, so forgive me if I come across as callous.

I can only say that I grew up being taught that I should be respectful towards people and not be intentionally hurtful. My parents told me not to make fun of people or bully them and to consider how what I say might make them feel. In addition, I feel that it is less effort on my part to withhold saying something hurtful than it is for the other person to deal with it. You can say it's not your problem when a person with low self-esteem gets hurt when you make a mean comment regarding their weight (high or low), general appearance, teeth, education, etc., but my question would be why do you feel entitled to cause other people harm.

So I am not saying that the bullies are at fault when the bullied kid goes into depression, but they played a part and can at least be asked to explain themselves and it can be explained to them that their behavior can cause suffering.

[JuJu]

Obesity due to severe mental issues still has to be addressed. Bluntly.

So you like to call out ppl with Downs' syndrome, Deante..? Wow, you're a real fuckin piece of shit

if one isn't perfect, he-she should shut the fuck up about other people's physical imperfections.

True.

I saw the photos thread and there are a lot of ppl here living in glass houses... There's loads of hypocrisy in these threads, and a paucity of empathy.

Ppl with "severe mental issues" often can't help the physical state they're in.

It's fine for anyone to have a personal preference against whatever... If someone, say, has a preference against ppl born in February, or in the state of NY--then I'm out... It's fine and it's that person's deal...

Regardless, if you find a person physically repulsive: at the least: don't fuck em... at the most: suggest a salad.

[Kim]

I don't know why I have such a strong aversion to this...i don't know...maybe i was a fat person in previous lives?

You know, that has actually crossed my mind! I apologize for taking it out on you. That was not fair. I guess I just want to communicate that it can really be hurtful, even on a forum.

Awww, feel the love!

[strrrng]

I can only say that I grew up being taught that I should be respectful towards people and not be intentionally hurtful. My parents told me not to make fun of people or bully them and to consider how what I say might make them feel. In addition, I feel that it is less effort on my part to withhold saying something hurtful than it is for the other person to deal with it. You can say it's not your problem when a person with low self-esteem gets hurt when you make a mean comment regarding their weight (high or low), general appearance, teeth, education, etc., but my question would be why do you feel entitled to cause other people harm.

Right, I agree that it is a negative waste of energy to insult someone just because they are fat or whatever. It fosters nothing, and is usually some compensation anyway. I just feel that deep down people need to be self-sufficient—'hardened,' if you will—so that when such situations present themselves, they don't become an unnecessary burden and detriment to everyone involved.

[Rubicon]

Most of the time I find one's physical flaws to be the most attractive aspect about them.

What about fungus toenails?

[strrrng]

Most of the time I find one's physical flaws to be the most attractive aspect about them.

very interesting...a nice continuance of your earlier comment about beauty in pain. I'm interested in hearing your take on this before giving mine.

[duality is cringe]

So you like to call out ppl with Downs' syndrome, Deante..? Wow, you're a real fuckin piece of shit

This exaggeration is so retarded, I'm beginning to wonder if you have Down's syndrome.

[crazedrat]

It's obvious you know nothing about the psychological phenomenon of compulsive eating and obesity, or helping a person who has it; and that you merely enjoy fucking with fat people. 'Bluntly calling out' a person who is fat only pushes their psychological complex further into the unconscious, in the same way that telling an anorexic to eat will make them starve harder. People who respond to this sort of thing aren't going to be the ones with compulsive eating problems. Fatsos do need something in their lives, but it's a little more complex then a reality check ... so stop being retarded about this will you

[cracka]

I hope he didn't go off the BMI index category of "obese". Cuz fuck, that thing's wacked out. according to that i'm "overweight"

yeah... I was like... I know i'm a bit over weight but damn...lol.

So you like to call out ppl with Downs' syndrome, Deante..? Wow, you're a real fuckin piece of shit

Not to bring light to such a shitty thing... but when I read that i got this vision of a person walking up to a person with downs syndrome and actually saying something like "Did you know that you're retarded?"

[Creepy-Diana]

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[Kristiina]

It's generally not good to judge someone just based on looks, as in "purely physical attractiveness". Personality and stuff like that are more important. This is, however, just a vague rule.

You see, if someone has really greasy hair, that's also "looks" and I would judge that. I'll forgive it, but I'll notice and I'll wonder what it says about the person or their living conditions. And do I want to shake their hand if they offer? If they don't wash their hair, how do I know they wash their hands... Sometimes it has nothing to do with internal charisma or personality. Sometimes how we look like tells entire stories about us. A person can have a great personality and charisma, but if they smell like piss, I'll avoid them and think they're icky!

[duality is cringe]

It's obvious you know nothing about the psychological phenomenon of compulsive eating and obesity, or helping a person who has it; and that you merely enjoy fucking with fat people. 'Bluntly calling out' a person who is fat only pushes their psychological complex further into the unconscious, in the same way that telling an anorexic to eat will make them starve harder. People who respond to this sort of thing aren't going to be the ones with compulsive eating problems. Fatsos do need something in their lives, but it's a little more complex then a reality check ... so stop being retarded about this will you

Perhaps, but not everyone who is obese is also a compulsive overeater and sedentary lifestyle (along with overly permissive parenting) is still one of the primary causes of obesity, though obviously not the only one. Genes can be an issue.

Environment is also important. I personally chose to create an environment where obesity is considered unattractive. This does not mean I chase down every obese looking person I see and insult them.

And regular "fatsos" were never the issue here.

[Kristiina]

A persons flaws say something about their inhibitions. Flaws create individuality, and create something to make that person unique; If not there would be emptiness. Yes, there is a certain beauty in flaws similar to the way there is beauty in pain. There is beauty in empathetic tragedy; sick or not. It makes someone real and rough around the edges. The strange way in which a nose is arched, the tendons rising out of arms, the messiness of uncared for hair, a sloppy clothing style, or the clumsiness of ones body moments. You can grow to love and cherish these things as if they were all personal treasures; to know that you fee a way about a specific feature while other people fail to see...

All depending on your feelings for a person, you can grow to find these 'flaws' quite disgusting, or otherwise desirable.

good post.

But I'd add that there's a slim difference between being unique and being different. And sometimes it's just a matter of perspective. One young woman years ago had unshaved armpits. She was making a statement with it. But when it was a warm summer day, the hairs glistened with sweat and finally drops of sweat started to run down inside the hairy bush under her arm. I still get shivers of horror just thinking about it. Maybe some men would find that hot, who knows...

[Kristiina]

Perhaps, but not everyone who is obese is also a compulsive overeater and sedentary lifestyle (along with overly permissive parenting) is still one of the primary causes of obesity, though obviously not the only one. Genes can be an issue.

Environment is also important. I personally chose to create an environment where obesity is considered unattractive. This does not mean I chase down every obese looking person I see and insult them.

And regular "fatsos" were never the issue here.

it's still odd that USA obese doesn't even exist in Estonia. Genes don't explain anything. It wasn't a few hundred thousand years ago that Europeans went to America. It was very recently ecologically/genetically speaking. And with all that travel between USA and Europe, I don't think there's any special "only Americans affected" illness. Just my two cents.

[olduser]

you people are lonely and it fucking shows.

[Ritella]

you people are lonely and it fucking shows.

isn't that the assumption when you spend your time posting on an internet forum?

[olduser]

isn't that the assumption when you spend your time posting on an internet forum?

no, just when you post shit like this-- really unconstructive, vapid shit.

[crazedrat]

fag on a human rights mission. better watch it

[Ritella]

no, just when you post shit like this-- really unconstructive, vapid shit.

call me sentimental, but I happen to really like unconstructive, vapid shit.

[Satan]

I find that one of the most repulsive things girls can do is try to find similar interests and relate based upon things that I don't think are important/significant.

Apparently that may mean a girl likes me when she does that. But for some reason it just irks me. I prefer it when girls "don't relate" or relate in a more off-beat way.

Like we're different, but we're the same. Not we're the same.

Like if I say I like to get drunk, and they're suddenly like I like to get drunk too. Then it's really off putting to me.

Whereas if a girl says that she only likes to get drunk on Tuesdays, then somehow it's much better. And of course I'd push for drinking on a Thursday.

But really with the physical thing, I think it's on/off. You don't like someone because their appearence is off. Or you like the because their appearance is on. But it's just a starting point.

And FWIW I only like "hot" girls, and apparently that's a "bad" thing about me. But like I don't want to "pretend".

Like I don't want to say that I find someone attractive, when I don't! And when I do find someone attractive, I don't want to say that I find them attractive, or they may get the upper hand.

[Satan]

Yes, this is true. After all, not all of us can find married women who want to cheat on their husbands with us. Some of us don't even like women!

For some reason married women seem more attractive

[Creepy-Diana]

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[Minde]

I know several people who are overweight to the point of obesity. A few of them I would consider friends and, yes, I do indeed worry about their health. I like them and enjoy their company and I don't want their overweight to hurt them or take them from me prematurely. I am not always sure, though, what I can do to help them. I'm afraid of blundering and saying or doing the wrong thing and hurting them, so I usually end up avoiding the topic when around them.

As for how a person's appearance influences if and how I interact with them - sure initial appearance does play a part, especially in how comfortable I am in initiating or accepting interaction. But, when watching someone, the initial looks generally fade from my view and I focus on manner and direction and intent and other things. Appearance blends into "underneath" stuff to form my impressions of the person, although occasionally a physical feature will predominate and mask other facets. Hm, not sure how to describe it. It might help to keep in mind that I'm not very physically observant, not in regards to important details.

As for what physically attracts me, overall healthiness and hygiene is important to me, and a healthy weight is a part of that. I don't think I could be attracted to somebody who was generally unhealthy and/or unclean. But that's more along the lines of romantic physical attraction. In terms of who I can get along and be friends with, physical appearance has its place especially in the initial stages of knowing someone, but it's not the end-all be-all. Sure, pretty people are nicer to look at - and I do love nice aesthetics. Being around kind, caring, intelligent, etc. people is very nice, too. Nicer, actually, in the long run. Of course, inner beauty and outer beauty are not mutually exclusive. And, as others have pointed out, appearance can become more appealing when one likes what is underneath the surface.

So, I can't say that physical appearance isn't a factor in how I perceive people; but it is only one factor out of many others. How significant a factor kind of depends on the kind of relationship - for example I'm probably not going to marry a man I don't find physically attractive, but I'm not going to say "I can't be friends with you" to an obese person just because of their weight.

Then again, upon further reflection, if someone's aesthetics seriously assault my senses, I will be much more likely to instinctively avoid them. Not that I feel proud of that, because I think it's good to be able to overcome such things, but it would be my genuine internal inclination.

[xyz]

you people are lonely and it fucking shows.

ahaha.. hahah! fuck. that was good. You sir, have got a place.

[duality is cringe]

fag on a human rights mission. better watch it

You mean the way in which you were attempting to protect the hurt feelings of the obese?

"better watch it" indeed. :/