tereg's thread

[JuJu]

LOL it may not be a question of Ne or Si for him, but more Fi or Fe. and that would help point him in either direction.

I've noticed quite a bit of Ne in tereg's posts... (I don't believe anyone would mistake him for a Gamma.)

Fe can be strong in IEEs... E.g. Craig Ferguson from the Late Late Show (IEE IMO) uses a lot of it.

The types that have been suggested for tereg are IEE, SEI, and EII...

Mune, I'm wondering: as a SEI, do you discern similarities between the way you and tereg process info? Or do you feel it's a little different?

[consentingadult]

I read consentingadult's post about moralism and Fi dramatism a little differently, I think. To me, the overall gist of the post was that Fi can get offended and can and does express that offense drawing upon demonstrative Fe, and he does not see that strong sense of Fi being expressed in Tereg in any form. I think I intuitively filled in something that were left unsaid (mostly because I think it was written from an ENFp perspective, rather than a general perspective - I think I have an awful temper and am often rude, but I doubt an outside observer from a more 'aggressive' quadra would note the same qualities in me - an SEE friend, if I've typed her correctly, often thinks I'm too even-keeled and polite.)

As I read it, I have some things to add because what was missing was an explanation of when Fi is offended sufficiently in an IEE to produce an Fe 'burn down' (a burn down probably would require some Se as well, as opposed to an Fi+Fe moral rant - which is also something that I don't think is alien to IEE, though it might not be somewhere IEEs frequent often.)

JuJu mentioned getting angry when people were grossly and unapologetically incompetent. I have to say, to the extent that that is linked to Te, incompetence is a bit of a bug-bear for me. However, whilst incompetence will definitely provoke to annoyance and irritation (and something that can only be described as mock rage - I am producing the Fe for the rage in that it sounds and looks like how someone might act if angry, but there is no real aggression, no real anger, no Se being drawn upon - and if you mock me for it, or just stare at me long enough, I will start laughing in the middle of the 'rage'), it never really produces anger.

Also, I agree with Slackermom that NeFi has quite an 'elastic' sense of ethics in the sense that even if you do something which offends my personal ethics or ideals, I am unlikely to hold it against you severely, because I recognise that what you violated are MY ethics, which are not UNIVERSAL principles, and thus, whilst I can private miffed inside, there is no basis upon which I am entitled to get shitty at you. I simply recognise that you and I are different people and to some extent, that there is no one right standard. If the ethical breach is HUGE, I might decide that I can't really trust you anymore, though nothing may change too much outwardly - I certainly won't shut you out of my life and it is unlikely I will try to do too much to change you, or force you to see the wrongness of your ways. Of course, this becomes much more complicated when we bring in 3rd party interests or a professional/legal context, because I have to not only act with respect to the breach of my private standards, but possibly your breach of an objective or external standard.

However, that doesn't mean that I never get angry, that my Fi is never sufficiently offended to create 'burn down'. When does it happen? Well first, it is VERY UNLIKELY to ever be directed at strangers or people I am not very close to. You are too far outside of my world for me to feel that I am in anyway entitled to lecture or explode at you. With closeness however comes responsibility and respect and thus, your affairs are entangled with mine sufficiently that I do feel I can extend some sense of private right and wrong toward you. Second, it would have to be a repeated breach. I can rationalise away the first breach - I'm still tentative about making a judgement about you from one violation - but repetition will confirm my suspicions about your character. Third, it will require you to seek to engage me in some way, particularly if it's related to whatever shitty thing it is I think you do. Te general rule is - if you leave me alone, I leave you alone. Don't bother me and I can pretend you don't exist. I would never seek out someone to yell at them or tell them off - only if they come find me first. And last, I would probably have to be a situation where I cannot leave or get away from your easily - if I am trapped in an enclosed space with you, that is probably a very bad thing, especially if there's no way to escape if you try engaging me.

To summarise - my conditions for what CA called a 'Burn Down':
1. Close relationship
2. Repeated offence
3. You attempt to engage me
4. Enclosed spaces/situations

When all these conditions are met, I will basically snap 'ENOUGH' and yes, I can yell both loudly and articulately and there will be fireworks.

But as I said elsewhere, I've only gone to this very angry, aggressive and moralistic place with one person in my life thus far. It's rare, but explosive.

You got it and even explained it better than I did, because I too do only do it to people close to me, and only in those cases where they keep crossing my boundaries, or when people try to ridicule my ideas as a means to wipe them off the table in a manner that is less than respectful (like Rick said somewhere, when Ne-base types are attacked in the Ne domain, they can and will put up a fight and wear out an opponent). I must add, however, that the number of times this happened in my adult life, is at most once a year (not counting those times I did it on this forum). I always felt very guilty about it afterwards, but in therapy I learned it can sometimes be appropriate behavior towards people who are in some respect abusive.

There is a lot more to say on the subject, I think I can also shed some light as to why some IEEs might do this and others not. I will get back on that later.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

lol at all the ENFp's trying to work each other out

[consentingadult]

yes, still going around about it all within myself. i did relate to your post about being a more balanced person who would be hard to type. i've done a lot of "work" within myself to get to that place.

anytime i write about myself, it's about what i'd like (value) to be not how i am. i see myself as i want to be in the answers to any "test" i take at any given moment. i'm not objective about myself as a "whole."

When you joined this forum, most of your post dealt with the conflict you had with your MIL, which was 'good' because it was a stress situation for you, and under stress we show what Theodore Millon calls the 'normal extreme' (i.e. extreme behavior which is caused by stress factors but disappears again after the stress is gone, as opposed to 'abnormal extreme', where the extreme behavior is present regardless of stress factors). This gave us an opportunity to look inside that head of yours, and I think you are irrational Beta, most likely SLE.

Apparently you are feeling way more relaxed right now, because your posts have become much more agreeable lately I hope the issues with you MIL are under control now.

[JuJu]

lol at all the ENFp's trying to work each other out

yeah man, srsly

[consentingadult]

lol at all the ENFp's trying to work each other out

That's assuming all these ENFPs are really ENFPs, and I'm not sure about that at all, starting with myself

[dbmmama]

When you joined this forum, most of your post dealt with the conflict you had with your MIL, which was 'good' because it was a stress situation for you, and under stress we show what Theodore Millon calls the 'normal extreme' (i.e. extreme behavior which is caused by stress factors but disappears again after the stress is gone, as opposed to 'abnormal extreme', where the extreme behavior is present regardless of stress factors). This gave us an opportunity to look inside that head of yours, and I think you are irrational Beta, most likely SLE.

Apparently you are feeling way more relaxed right now, because your posts have become much more agreeable lately I hope the issues with you MIL are under control now.

so astute i'm freaking out a bit. i'm usually the one that does that to others, irl or with my clients.

i am more relaxed in an odd sort of way. we were taking care of mil in her last months with hospice helping us. on top of it, hubby and i were living apart to do so. we are never apart. and another on top of it, she and i were very conflicting personalities. i believe she was INFj. she asked to never see me again in her last two months to make her last days more pleasant. i didn't take it personal. and i honored it. she passed on last month...

[tereg]

Ok, I've caught up again.

I find that I've also identified with the sentiments shared by Slacker Mom and unefille. And I also felt that I identified with the conditions and progressions of what I would call my "meltdowns" as it compares to how unefille described that progression.

Reading that post reminded me of something that has happened very recently in which I was able to express a full out verbal tirade about someone who I have had to deal with at work.

And so it got me to think again about the stipulations it would take to drive me over the edge. And, again, I think for me it goes back to these things

* Are you clearly taking advantage of me or taking advantage of something by outright lying or not caring (in the sense of being insubordinate or lazy or not pulling your end)?
* Is this a pattern of behavior or a fluke?

I don't think much bothers me as much in the moral sense as when someone weasels their way out of something and then defies instruction or correction and does it again anyway.

implied and niffweed will know who I'm talking about when I talk about this particular person at work because they were the ones who allowed me to release the rage in their presence.

And I can't really remember any time when I've been more pissed off at a person than I was with this person.

WARNING: This is a long story

This guy technically doesn't work where I work, he's the head of a separate company that has an affiliation with where I work, but we provide IT support for him and his laptop. He works between two cities, so he doesn't show up often in this city, but he will from time to time do some work here.

Per policy, each computer that we maintain and support has a virus scanner installed that scans and reports to a central reporting server that we can retrieve. This is where the pattern of behavior begins for him. It seemed like once a month or so, his laptop would come up as being infected with some sort of malware or virus.

Both me and my supervisor would respectfully keep reminding him "When you get an email from somebody you don't know, do not open attachments" or "When you see a pop-up ad when you are browsing, the rule of thumb is to not click on them. Offers they make are most likely too good to be true. Don't click on them." And he would reassure us that he would do this. But then, the exact same pattern would happen, and he would explain to us typically "Well, I was on this site, and I was looking around, and all of a sudden this pop-up came up it was for a coupon deal for..." and it just drove me nuts.

But here's the other thing. We know where he was browsing to contract the viruses. Let's just say his browsing habits aren't really on the up and up (during off hours of course) and browsing questionable sites.

But I think if anything made my blood boil more, it was when he would say this after we would confront him about another contracted virus. "I don't know how it got there. I was just doing my normal thing and then all of the sudden.... " And then subsequently talk about the thousands of dollars he has had to spend on 3rd party IT support and the personal issues he would hint at (which to me appeared to be very poorly constructed excuses).

BULL SHIT. HYACHACHACHACHACHA lsajfdkjsa;fdjlkjflsajdfj kflj


But, I bit my tongue and would firmly but respectfully remind him of the Acceptable Use policy and the Do's and Dont's of internet stuff.

So that is the basis (that's right, this is just the tip of the iceberg) for what then pushed me over the edge.

He has a Blackberry phone. He had been asking my supervisor and sort of bugging him to give him the capability to check and download his company email to the Blackberry. We had been resisting this for security reasons, but he kept bugging us, and so we researched it a little more and eventually found a reasonable solution and bent. The process involves adding software onto the Exchange server that manages mail in the network, and then also adding software to his laptop to facilitate delivery to the blackberry. The problem was, however, the laptop he wanted it installed on was not a domain computer (i.e. it was a computer that we were not managing) So, we had to tell him that in order to complete the process we would need to add it to our domain, add our virus scanner, etc.

At this point his resistance to this (i.e. when he would say "Well, can't you just do _____ I don't understand why you could just add it to my laptop blah blah blah" ) I found quite annoying which was only amplified given my past with him. Like almost like a "How dare you have the gall to say these sorts of things in the position that you are in" sort of thought.

Anyways, he obliged, and it involved moving his local profile to a domain profile (desktop background, icons, file integrity, etc). Then we let it go.

Of course when we dropped it off to him, I refused to make eye contact with him. I was very terse and short with him (my supervisor did most of the briefing). I couldn't stand to be in the same room as this person. The very sight of him made my blood boil. He seemed his normal aloof self, then trying to break the ice with me by asking "Hey uh, how long did it take you to do all of this?" I responded "A few hours" as I walked out of my office and swiftly down the stairs.

Then I come to find out some days later that he was unable to retrieve an ACT database file (ACT is a contact database manager application) that he needed, and in a way was accusing us of "doing something". Both me and my supervisor spoke directly to the president of our company that we confirmed that everything he needed access to was in tact before we gave the laptop back to him.

We asked him to bring the laptop to us to resolve the issue. But instead, since I guess he was in a hurry, what he did was he went to another 3rd party IT consulting group to resolve the issue. And then. It happened.

He was given an innvoice to pay the IT consulting group for labor. And then he tried to get the company I work for to pay the innvoice; he refused to pay for it. Then I got a voicemail left on my phone over one weekend regarding the same issue, couldn't access the file, and the innvoice issue. With all of the other "I've spent $10k in the last 3 months on technical support alone" sob stories. I went straight to the president of my company and told him about EVERYTHING he was doing after leaving a voicemail on the guy's phone asking AGAIN to have him bring it into work. Needless to say, the president was privy to his questionable antics as well. I told him I wasn't sure what to do, and he told me that if I asked him to bring it in to work on it I had done everything I could do, and not to worry about anything he brings up unless he actually does bring it in.

And then his laptop (a brand new laptop, mind you) contracted a virus.

To this day, I refuse to walk even remotely in his vicinity unless absolutely necessary. If I have to talk to him or contact him, it is without eye contact, short and terse. My body language is stern.

I consider him to be a slimeball of the lowest degree in my book. And if you ask implied and niffweed about my tirade against this person, they will tell you to what extent it happened.

Repeated offenses of this nature and blantant advantage-taking of this degree pisses me off to no end.

Thank goodness I don't have to see him every day because I would have an aneurysm by now.

[dbmmama]

Ok, I've caught up again.

I find that I've also identified with the sentiments shared by Slacker Mom and unefille. And I also felt that I identified with the conditions and progressions of what I would call my "meltdowns" as it compares to how unefille described that progression.

Reading that post reminded me of something that has happened very recently in which I was able to express a full out verbal tirade about someone who I have had to deal with at work.

And so it got me to think again about the stipulations it would take to drive me over the edge. And, again, I think for me it goes back to these things

* Are you clearly taking advantage of me or taking advantage of something by outright lying or not caring (in the sense of being insubordinate or lazy or not pulling your end)?
* Is this a pattern of behavior or a fluke?

I don't think much bothers me as much in the moral sense as when someone weasels their way out of something and then defies instruction or correction and does it again anyway.

implied and niffweed will know who I'm talking about when I talk about this particular person at work because they were the ones who allowed me to release the rage in their presence.

And I can't really remember any time when I've been more pissed off at a person than I was with this person.

WARNING: This is a long story

This guy technically doesn't work where I work, he's the head of a separate company that has an affiliation with where I work, but we provide IT support for him and his laptop. He works between two cities, so he doesn't show up often in this city, but he will from time to time do some work here.

Per policy, each computer that we maintain and support has a virus scanner installed that scans and reports to a central reporting server that we can retrieve. This is where the pattern of behavior begins for him. It seemed like once a month or so, his laptop would come up as being infected with some sort of malware or virus.

Both me and my supervisor would respectfully keep reminding him "When you get an email from somebody you don't know, do not open attachments" or "When you see a pop-up ad when you are browsing, the rule of thumb is to not click on them. Offers they make are most likely too good to be true. Don't click on them." And he would reassure us that he would do this. But then, the exact same pattern would happen, and he would explain to us typically "Well, I was on this site, and I was looking around, and all of a sudden this pop-up came up it was for a coupon deal for..." and it just drove me nuts.

But here's the other thing. We know where he was browsing to contract the viruses. Let's just say his browsing habits aren't really on the up and up (during off hours of course) and browsing questionable sites.

But I think if anything made my blood boil more, it was when he would say this after we would confront him about another contracted virus. "I don't know how it got there. I was just doing my normal thing and then all of the sudden.... " And then subsequently talk about the thousands of dollars he has had to spend on 3rd party IT support and the personal issues he would hint at (which to me appeared to be very poorly constructed excuses).

BULL SHIT. HYACHACHACHACHACHA lsajfdkjsa;fdjlkjflsajdfj kflj


But, I bit my tongue and would firmly but respectfully remind him of the Acceptable Use policy and the Do's and Dont's of internet stuff.

So that is the basis (that's right, this is just the tip of the iceberg) for what then pushed me over the edge.

He has a Blackberry phone. He had been asking my supervisor and sort of bugging him to give him the capability to check and download his company email to the Blackberry. We had been resisting this for security reasons, but he kept bugging us, and so we researched it a little more and eventually found a reasonable solution and bent. The process involves adding software onto the Exchange server that manages mail in the network, and then also adding software to his laptop to facilitate delivery to the blackberry. The problem was, however, the laptop he wanted it installed on was not a domain computer (i.e. it was a computer that we were not managing) So, we had to tell him that in order to complete the process we would need to add it to our domain, add our virus scanner, etc.

At this point his resistance to this (i.e. when he would say "Well, can't you just do _____ I don't understand why you could just add it to my laptop blah blah blah" ) I found quite annoying which was only amplified given my past with him. Like almost like a "How dare you have the gall to say these sorts of things in the position that you are in" sort of thought.

Anyways, he obliged, and it involved moving his local profile to a domain profile (desktop background, icons, file integrity, etc). Then we let it go.

Of course when we dropped it off to him, I refused to make eye contact with him. I was very terse and short with him (my supervisor did most of the briefing). I couldn't stand to be in the same room as this person. The very sight of him made my blood boil. He seemed his normal aloof self, then trying to break the ice with me by asking "Hey uh, how long did it take you to do all of this?" I responded "A few hours" as I walked out of my office and swiftly down the stairs.

Then I come to find out some days later that he was unable to retrieve an ACT database file (ACT is a contact database manager application) that he needed, and in a way was accusing us of "doing something". Both me and my supervisor spoke directly to the president of our company that we confirmed that everything he needed access to was in tact before we gave the laptop back to him.

We asked him to bring the laptop to us to resolve the issue. But instead, since I guess he was in a hurry, what he did was he went to another 3rd party IT consulting group to resolve the issue. And then. It happened.

He was given an innvoice to pay the IT consulting group for labor. And then he tried to get the company I work for to pay the innvoice; he refused to pay for it. Then I got a voicemail left on my phone over one weekend regarding the same issue, couldn't access the file, and the innvoice issue. With all of the other "I've spent $10k in the last 3 months on technical support alone" sob stories. I went straight to the president of my company and told him about EVERYTHING he was doing after leaving a voicemail on the guy's phone asking AGAIN to have him bring it into work. Needless to say, the president was privy to his questionable antics as well. I told him I wasn't sure what to do, and he told me that if I asked him to bring it in to work on it I had done everything I could do, and not to worry about anything he brings up unless he actually does bring it in.

And then his laptop (a brand new laptop, mind you) contracted a virus.

To this day, I refuse to walk even remotely in his vicinity unless absolutely necessary. If I have to talk to him or contact him, it is without eye contact, short and terse. My body language is stern.

I consider him to be a slimeball of the lowest degree in my book. And if you ask implied and niffweed about my tirade against this person, they will tell you to what extent it happened.

Repeated offenses of this nature and blantant advantage-taking of this degree pisses me off to no end.

Thank goodness I don't have to see him every day because I would have an aneurysm by now.

i'm personally completely convinced you're delta NF. but what about INFj? as much as you post here, you seem like an introvert.

[tereg]

i'm personally completely convinced you're delta NF. but what about INFj? as much as you post here, you seem like an introvert.

I agree that I am maybe a bit more introverted in the MBTI sense. In fact, my dad is the one who has called me a "shy extravert". i.e. showing extraverted tendencies, but naturally reserved or shy.

I have considered INFj before, but I think after understanding the ideas behind Socionics introversion and extraversion that extraversion seemed a better fit for me.

Edit: INFj was what I had typed myself when I first came here.

[dbmmama]

I agree that I am maybe a bit more introverted in the MBTI sense. In fact, my dad is the one who has called me a "shy extravert". i.e. showing extraverted tendencies, but naturally reserved or shy.

I have considered INFj before, but I think after understanding the ideas behind Socionics introversion and extraversion that extraversion seemed a better fit for me.

Edit: INFj was what I had typed myself when I first came here.

i understand completely. that's how i'd describe myself too. i've just slowly gotten over my shy stuff as i've done a lot of spiritual work.

[Slacker]

When he first came, in his initial type thread, it was very hard to choose between INFj and ENFp for him.

[dbmmama]

When he first came, in his initial type thread, it was very hard to choose between INFj and ENFp for him.

that was as nebulous as nebulous can be. nothing personal. i think it's cute. what do you think his type is now? or are you implying that it's still hard for you to choose? i sometimes have a hard time reading between the lines that way.

[Slacker]

that was as nebulous as nebulous can be. nothing personal. i think it's cute. what do you think his type is now? or are you implying that it's still hard for you to choose? i sometimes have a hard time reading between the lines that way.

He seems to identify more with ENFp so I'd give the edge to that, but that's the only reason. I don't see anything that points strongly toward ENFp away from INFj, or vice versa for that matter. But I do think he's most likely one of those two.

[Expat]

I think that his approach to suggested more hidden agenda than dual-seeking, but it was difficult to tell.

[consentingadult]

When he first came, in his initial type thread, it was very hard to choose between INFj and ENFp for him.

Okay, now I'm interested in the reasons why I might be wrong in my assessment of Tereg's type. Can you perhaps elaborate what it is that points to him being EII ir IEE?

[Slacker]

I don't like writing huge threads, so I'll tell you that it seemed very clear to me in his intro thread that he values Te but is weak in it, values Si, and has issues with Se.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=14798

I'm more interested in hearing why you think you're an IEE because I think that's much less likely than him being an IEE. You might be Delta but you don't feel like an NF to me.

[tereg]

You know, reading that old thread is like watching old videos of myself from when I was a child. Sort of embarrassing, yet somewhat comical in a way.

Ugh, I'm so... so... typical of when I meet new people or a new group of people for the first time.

Edit: Meaning that my tone throughout that thread is rather formal and a bit rigid. More formal than my natural candor. But like I said, that usually happens when I'm introduced to a new group of people. I tend to take on a sort of air that is "safe" and "with it".

[consentingadult]

I don't like writing huge threads, so I'll tell you that it seemed very clear to me in his intro thread that he values Te but is weak in it, values Si, and has issues with Se.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=14798

I'm more interested in hearing why you think you're an IEE because I think that's much less likely than him being an IEE. You might be Delta but you don't feel like an NF to me.

That thread you are referring to, is imho, written with extensive knowledge of MBTI in the back of his head, which makes it a prone to falsification of type. Similar to most MBTI tests, which I can fill out to arrive at any type I want to, or to match the view I have of myself. This is why I like Rick's test: even though it's not a perfect test, it has a lot in there to make it difficult to fill it out in such a way you arrive at the type you want, either consciously or subconsciously. Tereg's introduction is not a good starting point for an analysis.

About me: I don't know if I'm an IEE, I leave that up to other people to decide. Not a day goes by that I don't doubt my type. Right now I go through periods of depression (real, diagnosed depressions, not those little dips that people mistake for depressions), and in those moments my behavior is more like an SLI, and I become rather schizoid during these periods. But does that mean I am SLI, or just that I'm being depressed? For the past two years, I'm very confused about who I am and what to do with my life. So that I don't feel Delta NF to you, does not necessarily mean that I am not. I could very well be an IEE who has burn out and flipped his behavior towards the other side, which is not an uncommon psychological phenomenon. Apart from that, your feeling about me could be simply wrong, of course.

Even worse: I'm still not sure I'm deluding myself and that Socionics is Forer Effect BS after all. Especially since the IEEs here can't seem to reach agreement on what is part of the IEE make-up and what is not.

[JuJu]

Even worse: I'm still not sure I'm deluding myself and that Socionics is Forer Effect BS after all. Especially since the IEEs here can't seem to reach agreement on what is part of the IEE make-up and what is not.

Thank you for being honest and sharing that about yourself.

Obviously, we're all different ppl, of all different ages, from all over the world... To the extent that there are commonalities between, it's pretty incredible

Ryene's post in what's my type--when I read it my jaw dropped... So similar.

[consentingadult]

Thank you for being honest and sharing that about yourself.

Obviously, we're all different ppl, of all different ages, from all over the world... To the extent that there are commonalities between, it's pretty incredible

Ryene's post in what's my type--when I read it my jaw dropped... So similar.

Now you got me curious too... do you have the link to that thread?

Edit: I found the thread!