Possible phitypes for each IM type

[machintruc]

I think, there are 9 phitypes that are possible for each IM type. I estimated it by dividing the Dunbar Number (150) by the number of IM Types.

Approximately :

ILE +++ +0+ 0+- ++- +0-
SEI +-- +0- --- -0- +-0 	
ESE +00 ++0 +-0 00+ 0++ +-+ +0+ +++
LII 00- 0+- 000 -00 -+0 -+- -0-
EIE +00 +00 +-0 -+0 0++ 00+ +0+ +++ -+-
LSI --+ -0+ 0-0 000 0-+ +-+ 	
SLE -++ -0+ --+ +++ +0+ +-+ ++0 00+ 0-+
IEI -+- -0- --- +-- +0- ++- 0-- 00- 0+-
SEE +++ +0+ +-+ -++ -0+ 00+ 0++ ++0
ILI 0-- 00- 0+- -+- -0- -+0 -00
LIE 00+ 0++ -+0 0+- 000 0+0 -0+ -++ +++
ESI -00 --0 -+0 000 0-0 +-0 0-+ --+ -0+ +-+
LSE 0+0 000 00+ 0-+ -+0 -0+ -+- +-0
EII 0-0 000 -00 -+0 00- 0+- -+- +0-
IEE -++ -0+ +0+ +++ -+0 -+- 	
SLI -00 --0 -+0 0-- 00- 0+- --+ 0-0 0-+ +--

The upper list contains valid and non-valid combinations. Tell me if you know any :

- missing valid combinations in the upper list
- present non-valid combinations in the upper list

[Kristiina]

darn, I keep forgetting what I was... ++-? Or was it --+?

[normal]

what on earth is the Phitypes?

[machintruc]

what on earth is the Phitypes?

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...del_%CE%A6

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...ser:Machintruc

darn, I keep forgetting what I was... ++-? Or was it --+?

I think you're ++0 or 0++.

[normal]

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...s/Model_%CE%A6

Now I see. That's fun.

[Rubicon]

I think I'm 00- (though the only one I'm sure about is the '-'). Is that possible for a SEI?

[Kristiina]

darn, I keep forgetting what I was... ++-? Or was it --+?

I think you're ++0 or 0++.

Then I gotta be 0++ because that's EIE phitype.

But that's sure a lot of pluses you're proposing. I was sure I had at least two minuses... Maybe i was just being REALLY pessimistic and then you just saw that I have no idea how bad things COULD be and thought I was + in stead.

Oh wait-a-minute, is it really good to have a +?
Serotonin - The more you have it, the more aggressive energy you have, right? Anger, aggreession, body temperature, sexuality... The less the better? Or actually intermediate is the best here.
Norepinephrin - This is also aggression. This is the thing that makes some people sky-dive? Mhh... "Fight or flight" So some N+ types just get very strong fear reaction? Also having N+ would make people somewhat competitive? (that might just be testosterone in stead) Mhh, okay, I think I could be N+. Again, intermediate might be best here.
Dopamine - motivation, energy, feeling of pleasure. I'd say I'm - or 0. With dopamine, the more the merrier, so D+ is the winner here. (except for a possible link between dopamine levels and gambling.)

According to that, I'm more likely ++- or ++0. Still EIE though.

[FDG]

Then I gotta be 0++ because that's EIE phitype.

But that's sure a lot of pluses you're proposing. I was sure I had at least two minuses... Maybe i was just being REALLY pessimistic and then you just saw that I have no idea how bad things COULD be and thought I was + in stead.

Oh wait-a-minute, is it really good to have a +?
Serotonin - The more you have it, the more aggressive energy you have, right? Anger, aggreession, body temperature, sexuality... The less the better? Or actually intermediate is the best here.
Norepinephrin - This is also aggression. This is the thing that makes some people sky-dive? Mhh... "Fight or flight" So some N+ types just get very strong fear reaction? Also having N+ would make people somewhat competitive? (that might just be testosterone in stead) Mhh, okay, I think I could be N+. Again, intermediate might be best here.
Dopamine - motivation, energy, feeling of pleasure. I'd say I'm - or 0. With dopamine, the more the merrier, so D+ is the winner here. (except for a possible link between dopamine levels and gambling.)

According to that, I'm more likely ++- or ++0. Still EIE though.

Btw a lot of serotonin is not conductive to anger or aggression or sexuality. In fact it is suppressive to all those three variables. Try to drink a lot of milk and I'm sure you'll feel peaceful and sleepy and not really in the mood for anything sexual.

I agree with your desc of the other two

[machintruc]

Then I gotta be 0++ because that's EIE phitype.

But that's sure a lot of pluses you're proposing. I was sure I had at least two minuses... Maybe i was just being REALLY pessimistic and then you just saw that I have no idea how bad things COULD be and thought I was + in stead.

Oh wait-a-minute, is it really good to have a +?
Serotonin - The more you have it, the more aggressive energy you have, right? Anger, aggreession, body temperature, sexuality... The less the better? Or actually intermediate is the best here.
Norepinephrin - This is also aggression. This is the thing that makes some people sky-dive? Mhh... "Fight or flight" So some N+ types just get very strong fear reaction? Also having N+ would make people somewhat competitive? (that might just be testosterone in stead) Mhh, okay, I think I could be N+. Again, intermediate might be best here.
Dopamine - motivation, energy, feeling of pleasure. I'd say I'm - or 0. With dopamine, the more the merrier, so D+ is the winner here. (except for a possible link between dopamine levels and gambling.)

According to that, I'm more likely ++- or ++0. Still EIE though.

Actually, a lack of serotonin leads to confrontational behaviours, and an excess of norepinephrin leads to high-strungness.

I'm N+, and I'm not competitive or aggressive. I'm just "strung".

[crazedrat]

Can we be more than one phi-type ?!

[machintruc]

Can we be more than one phi-type ?!

No. You can't.

[Rubicon]

No. You can't.

[iAnnAu]

Well, FWIW I'm SLI and I think I'm 0-+. So that works for me.

[Nexus]

Dopamine allows you to focus on a specific task and is heavily involved in reward-processing pathways and goal-oriented behavior (S/N), is mimicked by speed (stimulant) and is inhibited by olanzapine (antipsychotic).

Serotonin regulates sleep, moods, sexuality, appetite, anger, and 'love', and is responsible for preventing the repetition of a previously reinforced behavior (F/T), is released by ecstasy (stimulant/hallucinogen) and is absent during ecstasy withdrawal.

Norepinephrine, or 'noradrenaline', triggers alertness and fight-or-flight responses (E/I), is aggregated by ephedrine (stimulant) and is inhibited by yohimbine (aphrodisiac).

Also, realize that the neurotransmitters you have mentioned are all modulators and thus perform very different functions in different parts of the brain...for a detailed clarification of modulator functions (and especially feedback intermodulation) I highly recommend Joseph E. LeDoux's Synaptic Self.

BTW have you ever empirically tested the supposed neurotransmitter concentrations you are implicating in this particular taxonomy? A priori, I agree with most of the serotonin typings, but I would think that 1 would be low on S (self-deploring sensitization) and high on D (reward-focused behavior)...also, current research supports the idea that risk-takers (7) have low concentrations of dopamine (or weak receptors) and so take risks to stabilize the deficiency...the model is fine (aside from the 27 subtypes) but the neurotransmitter association is pretty weak.

[Gilly]

Dopamine allows you to focus on a specific task and is heavily involved in reward-processing pathways and goal-oriented behavior (S/N), is released by cocaine (O_O) and is inhibited by olanzapine (antipsychotic).

teehee

[machintruc]

Dopamine allows you to focus on a specific task and is heavily involved in reward-processing pathways and goal-oriented behavior (S/N), is mimicked by speed (stimulant) and is inhibited by olanzapine (antipsychotic).

Serotonin regulates sleep, moods, sexuality, appetite, anger, and 'love', and is responsible for preventing the repetition of a previously reinforced behavior (F/T), is released by ecstasy (stimulant/hallucinogen) and is absent during ecstasy withdrawal.

Norepinephrine, or 'noradrenaline', triggers alertness and fight-or-flight responses (E/I), is aggregated by ephedrine (stimulant) and is inhibited by yohimbine (aphrodisiac).

Like ****** was a thinker, and Gwen Stefani a flightly retard.

[Nexus]

teehee

Cocaine is a reuptake inhibitor for dopamine, serotonin, and noradrenalin, so you get a little of each...

Like ****** was a thinker, and Gwen Stefani a flightly retard.

What's your point?

[FDG]

BTW have you ever empirically tested the supposed neurotransmitter concentrations you are implicating in this particular taxonomy? A priori, I agree with most of the serotonin typings, but I would think that 1 would be low on S (self-deploring sensitization) and high on D (reward-focused behavior)...also, current research supports the idea that risk-takers (7) have low concentrations of dopamine (or weak receptors) and so take risks to stabilize the deficiency...the model is fine (aside from the 27 subtypes) but the neurotransmitter association is pretty weak.

Interestingly, notice how the types that in the enneagram are thought to be the most risk-taking (leaving aside cp6 for now as an exception) are the aggressive triad - 3,7,8 - which are also thought to be high on dopamine. Also notice how 7s are described as being the most likely to e-type to get addicted to -insert name of molecule here-, which would reinforce the hypothesis of them being high on dopamine. Still your point on risk-taking behavior being characteristic of low dopamine holds. So the results are uncertain. We can also notice that 7s are both described as quick-learners and as attention-deficit prone, which are contrasting properties if we try to connect them to dopamine level.

[marooned]

I'm wondering if there's

A

your natural neurotransmitter balance... so --+ for instance doesn't mean you're deficient in S or N... only that your overall make-up works in this way... your natural mode of being is S- N- D+.

vs. B

whether due to diet or some heath issue you have an imbalance in your neurotransmitters that is screwing up your natural way of being and thus leading you to behaviors that try to account for (correct) the imbalance.

So if you're --+, AND your system has a dopamine imbalance, this doesn't change your default "phi-type" ... you're still --+. But it does put you in the position of trying to correct the imbalance (in a way that you perhaps wouldn't if you were, say -+- and your natural state is low dopamine)... hence risk-seeking behavior.

-----------------------------

Low dopamine (as a natural state) =/= Dopamine imbalance

[marooned]

Maybe it's sort of the question of... your phi-type tends to be the type you operate best at (so when you are healthy, the way you are then will match up with your phi-type).

For instance, I think my most healthy way of operating is D-. Yes my dopamine is low, but I don't need or want any more. I wouldn't work well if it weren't low. It would be too much of a physical sort of energy... I wouldn't be able to contain it with my make-up as it is. (or so I imagine) I might admire it from a far, but that's different.

[Gilly]

I think I am probably -+- . I was at first inclined to think 0+- or ++-, but my moods are way too unstable and my focus far too poor to be anything but S-. Most people who have needed antidepressants should probably consider an S- type, no?

[hellothere]

I think I am probably -+- . I was at first inclined to think 0+- or ++-, but my moods are way too unstable and my focus far too poor to be anything but S-. Most people who have needed antidepressants should probably consider an S- type, no?

sounds about right, considering the way SSRIs work