Dexter (TV series)

[Gilly]

Personally, Lubingo, I don't have any issue with you saying you think the show is stupid and boring. I think Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail is stupid and boring and I can't watch more than 20 minutes without getting painfully bored, or yes falling asleep if it's late enough. And whenever anyone raves about that movie I think "oh god" on the inside. I might be afraid to express my utter dislike of it. Although I guess no one really goes on about it being cool or something, and even if they did, it would mean nothing to me. I'd probably just think to myself, "I don't get it, yet again." But really this reminds me of how you told me to die, Gilly, when I said I didn't like Tyler Durden. And I still don't like him. I thought what "he" did to that Ray guy who wanted to be a veterinarian was horrible and not cool and cruel. If I thought it was because he really cared about Ray that would be something (then it would be tough love, and sometimes tough love actually can help people, if it's really love); but I thought he was capitalizing on Ray's vulnerabilities and misfortunes (after all, it's not okay to be a person if you're not being an exceptional person, in fact then you deserve to die or be tortured by assholes). That was how I felt abt it. And I don't really think it's trolling eitr to say such things (not on this forum, anyway).

See that was half joking, totally different scenario. Thanks for being a mother hen though.

[Gilly]

Also Loki just fyi Lubingo admitted to trolling. Oops?

[Lubingo]

Also Loki just fyi Lubingo admitted to trolling. Oops?

Where are your sources?

[rat1]

Loki you act like ignoring bad things are gona make them go away. The world is in the shitter right now. Everybody gets that. Why do you think Dexter is such a hit? Alot of people are reassessing morality at this phase in our culture. I think it was sparked mainly by the internet but media and education too. Really it's about time we remembered. We are vicious animals. I'd like to buy you a tiger.. you can dress it up in a bonnet and put a huge bottle in its mouth, it'll claw your throat out for it.

[Gilly]

Where are your sources?

Right here:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...9540&viewfull=

See? You ARE a troll.

"Man, everything everyone else likes is SUCK"

It's fine to be a little bit of a troll; just don't lie about it.

takes one to know one

Thanks for at least admitting it...

you're welcome

[Lubingo]

Right here:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...9540&viewfull=

WTF....Its called sarcasm asshole..you should really try it sometime...

[Jenna]

Oh please, stop trying to deflect it. "takes one to know one" is not sarcasm.

[Lubingo]

Oh please, stop trying to deflect it. "takes one to know one" is not sarcasm.

Whatever...sue me..and get a life while you're at it

[rat1]

You're a chronic liar and probably schizotypal. Read about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizot...ality_disorder

[Jenna]

[InkStrider]

I've not seen the show, but reading this sounds like it's a really interesting one:

I was initially repulsed by Dexter's character. I think that to be a truly sick person, one must believe the world is sick and that they are sick and that they will never be anything other than sick and dark. So while all the other "happy" people wander about living their normal lives, the sick, dark person harbors a terrible secret, a deep darkness and evil inside him that means he can never truly be with others, or be anything but a horrible being who hurts or kills others for his own sick satisfaction. ("When the rest of heaven was blue, of a demon in my view.") Dexter finds people who are like this (who he sees as like him) and he confirms their and his entire worldview... he drenches the already sick and dark soul in even more sickness and darkness, tortures, and kills that person. To me this is absolutely repulsive. I didn't see it as a matter of deserving or not deserving, but as justifying the very existence of this sickness and darkness and confirming that there is indeed no other way (you will never be more than a killer).

However, the reason I fell in love with the show is because it's about humanity. What does it mean to be human? It explores how close and far Dexter can come to being like others. Each season puts him in a new situation where how far he can and can't come to being a "real boy" are explored. I find it interesting because I sympathize with Dexter's loneliness and inability to connect with other people. Watching the show I can't help but wish there was some way Dexter could really fit into the world. So even though I don't believe he can change, that's still the pull of the show. I'm also interested in how close another person can come to accepting Dexter. For instance in S5, Lumen is able to feel sympathy for Dexter and won't turn him in, but ultimately she can't be around him knowing who he is and what he does (as Julia Stiles puts it, it's like she rejected him as a person in the end). The ultimate question is would Debra reject him if she knew what he really does and who he really is? I'm very curious about this. So I'm drawn to the show out of my interest in watching Dexter attempt to have relationships with other people as well as anything that explores his psychology. I kind of wish the show would go on for years and years so we could see how screwed up Harrison ends up being because I think he's going to be really messed up. Dexter doesn't spend enough time with him and he's always being passed around, he doesn't have a mother, and Dexter can't give him any human warmth or affection for the most part. Dexter cares almost in the way a crocodile regards her eggs or something.

I've seen a couple of episodes, and honestly..I got bored to sleep. I tried to give it a chance, but I guess it's just not my cup of tea. I'm done arguing about this stupid show. Maybe you guys need to realise that I really couldn't careless about how you perceive me...

How old are you, you little twat? Quit trolling. Reading your blogposts makes me want to punch you to pulp. How about you change your self-typing and fuck off from my quadra?

[Gilly]

Fucking right...

[rat1]

respect

[Gilly]

ind33d

See, there's two kinds of trolls: people who just get off on pissing others off (Absurd, Parkster, this guy, occasionally merky) and trolls who bare their souls and serve justice in the process (me, dj, rat, strrrng, etc).

Inkstrider knows the difference. Props.

[Absurd]

How old are you, you little twat? Quit trolling. Reading your blogposts makes me want to punch you to pulp. How about you change your self-typing and fuck off from my quadra?

Plus:

....Im sorry, but wtf type shit is this. You people are becoming more and more pathetic each and everyday.

In that case I hope he beats you to a pulp, like orange juice.

Ring a bell?

[marooned]

Loki you act like ignoring bad things are gona make them go away.

Really, how so?

The world is in the shitter right now. Everybody gets that. Why do you think Dexter is such a hit? Alot of people are reassessing morality at this phase in our culture. I think it was sparked mainly by the internet but media and education too. Really it's about time we remembered. We are vicious animals. I'd like to buy you a tiger.. you can dress it up in a bonnet and put a huge bottle in its mouth, it'll claw your throat out for it.

Okay, so how does watching Dexter satisfy this supposed craving for a different kind of morality? I'm not getting a reassessment of morality out of watching a show about a compulsive addict with uncontrollable urges to kill. If anything, Dexter is your tiger in a bonnet. I mean I don't really see an idealism in the show where Dexter is the true face of humanity or something. I think some people may idealize the character and think some great truth is coming out of the show, sort of like how some people thought the Joker in The Dark Knight was the coolest character ever, speaking deep truths about human nature that the supposedly good and righteous people hypocritically denied. It's not that there isn't what is referred to as "evil" or that there aren't base instinctual impulses or that there isn't a shadow side; it's that this is not all there is. So I see no point in aggrandizing the dark to the point of eclipsing the light and then claiming there is no light.

I also don't think Harry's Code would apply to this either. The main purpose of the code (rule #1) is to prevent Dexter from getting caught... it's not about how Dexter can be moral in his own way inasmuch as it's about how Dexter can conduct himself without being detected. Harry does have his own form of justice and morality, however, and used Dexter to carry it out. But I think Dexter himself understood that terms like "dark avenger" and "vigilante" don't appropriately characterize him. The code he tries to operate under ends up revealing a face of a dark avenger/vigilante that one might assume to be behind the crimes--but that face is just an echo of Harry's intentions and Dexter does not embody it: Dexter craves to kill, and this is beyond any other motives he might have. Even if Dexter were like this "dark avenger" it wouldn't supply any kind of satisfying new or different kind of morality as the idea has been floating around forever... it's in countless stories/films and been played out countless times by real people, so it's already floating around in the mass consciousness. Beyond this, Dexter doesn't even stick to the code all the time. He cannot be seen as some bringer of justice when he kills people who don't qualify as "deserving" or through his activities gets them killed inadvertently.

So I just don't see it. And I don't really believe that most people watch the show as one input in their "reassessing of morality" in response to these "dire times." I probably think that most people watch it because we're a brain dead culture addicted to entertainment. Dexter can be entertaining in numerous ways, drawing in a broad range of viewers. People can probably relate to a lot of Dexter's struggles in one way or another.

 

I mean Dexter is a compulsive addict (many people are addicted to something and can relate to trying to hide this from others so as to avoid social rejection, condemnation or ridicule). Many people can relate to trying to hide in general or to the fear that if others were to see the "real them" that they would reject them because the real self is flawed, or ugly, or dark, or whatever. Dexter is constantly doing things he's "not supposed to" and trying to avoid getting caught as he fulfills his own desires and drives, and I'm sure everyone at some point in their lives has found themselves in that kind of situation (it's just that it didn't involve killing people). And beyond this, I'm sure many people can relate to having been selfish at one time or another and caring nothing about the well-being of others in certain situations (of even wishing others ill); of pushing ahead according to their own selfish needs and even despising others for being "in the way". Dexter struggles with connecting with others and having meaningful relationships with others, and I'm sure many can relate, or at the very least feel sympathy for his loneliness. Dexter is the first person narrator on the show and it's easy to identify with him and be drawn into his world where the viewer may sympathize and urge Dexter on (wanting him to fulfill his goals). There is a forbidden element to the show because it is just "so wrong" and beyond this there is self-fascination in how one will continue to watch the show and root for Dexter when they know it's just so wrong--aka "cheap thrills." Since the Dark Passenger doesn't have to be an uncontrollable sadistic urge or lust coming from a dark place, but can simply be any manifestation of the "shadow side" of a person, I think most people can relate to the idea in one way or another.

The show is sufficiently shocking, dramatic and suspenseful with interesting enough story lines to keep people watching (after all it takes much less to keep people watching--tons of people have followed soap operas that aren't anywhere near the quality of a show like Dexter). Also, there are characters other than Dexter that viewers can find interesting. And of course, there's my reason: one can enter a dialogue with themselves while watching the show about what it means to be human and what is humanity. But am I in doing this "reassessing morality"? I don't know.

I suppose social norms could play into this. I mean Dexter operates outside of social norms, while wearing his socially acceptable mask and keeping his "cover". This can lead into questioning these social norms themselves, because if they were different then Dexter wouldn't have to hide; what he does or how he is then might not be considered taboo or forbidden or sick or wrong. But I would say that social norms and what is widely held to be morally wrong isn't simply a bunch of social standards that we all blindly follow. It evolved to allow for a functioning society where the average citizen can be safe and have their rights--it's actually a way to try to benefit as many as possible (it's cooperation for mutual benefit). And it seems like virtually all societies and civilizations have had their own standards about killing (when it's right and when it's wrong), and I think it usually amounts to the same thing... at the very least among those who are recognized as having rights (being worth something) killing is seen as wrong, unless there is a just or necessary reason for it as deemed by society (this reason may negate the person's rights). Among those who are not seen as worth something (worth a human being) like slaves or serfs or different cultures or whatever, the standards may differ and killing may not be seen as wrong (those people aren't fully people, or they serve a higher purpose that they are sacrificed to--they must die to allow for some greater thing of spiritual significance).

Ironically, I think that if acceptance of what appeared to be Dexter's "nature" were allowed such that he didn't have to wear a mask but could just say what he really thinks and feels, maybe he actually could have not turned into what he did. By pushing one into the shadows, they tend to just draw more shadows. So I mean by rejecting a person like Dexter perhaps people reject what he is as a part of "human nature" because they don't want to look at it. So I suppose he could be a buried truth then... but I don't think I'd say there's a Dexter inside all of us or something. I mean I don't relate on any level to having a compulsive drive to kill others, but this does remind me of an episode of CSI I saw once where some teenagers were high on meth or something and two of them killed and actually ate parts of the other one... perhaps they were operating from base instincts as their higher brain functions had been compromised... but then I wouldn't see the need to glorify the primitive predatory nature of the "reptilian brain." I mean I already know I'm this weird organic soup of overlapping things, some of which are older than others, and I already feel any perception of a solid self is an illusion, and I've already tormented myself over all of this. Just because people can be "savage killers" or "vicious animals" doesn't mean we can't be other things too. People can be a lot of things.

[strrrng]

the thing is, dexter's compulsion for killing carries much more weight than some generic symbol of repressed instincts; it's a personalized form of what the darwinian-capitalistic ideology embeds in peoples' unconscious. an abstract law of nature turns into a daily need (one no more base than most indulgences), so prey and predator become one; the addition of a moral code is important because it makes things work -- to a degree most normal people couldn't even achieve. dexter represents this inversion of the food chain, as a means to reveal what 'life feeding on life' actually implies, and thus what morality functions as -- the fourth wall's mirror.

[marooned]

(I think I disagree with you but I'm too unsure of what you're talking about to even know for sure. I so far do not find Dexter to be any more highly symbolic than Ted Bundy, which is to say I don't really find the character very symbolic. But if you elaborated on your post in a more sensical way, I might then understand what you mean. I so far only have about half of the meaning.)

[Gilly]

Basically he's saying that Dexter is a specific characature representation of the American mindset in the way his life as a serial killer evolves. The themes in the show are not merely the moral conflicts of a serial killer, but a symbolic representation of the American mindset projected onto a serial killer, a fitting medium when one considers the selfish and ultimately destructive implications of a capitalist society that insists also upon a moral behavioral code.

[strrrng]

yeah, pretty much. regarding his status among other serial killers, keep in mind that pretty much all of them embodied the insanity and grandiosity entailed in the mindset I described. this is why dexter is worthier than them -- he doesn't care about any of the glamor or ideology, he knows what he needs and goes about getting it in the most efficient way; the collective benefit his kills bring is just a perk.

[rat1]

You live the lifestyle you can while the underworld remains in the shadows. The number one rule is not to get caught. It's a rule I truly believe in as a man today.

[Codie]

Bumpety bump..I'm hooked on this! Dexter ISTj e1w9, Deb EIE e4w3?, Dexters father XLE??, Cap. Maria xSFx

[d1ffe7]

Just finished season six. Typings so far:
Dexter: LSI
Debra: EIE
Rita: SEI
LaGuerta: ESE
Quinn: SLE
Masuka: ILE
Angel Batista: IEE
Jamie Batista: SEI? (could see IEI, but she is a good caretaker, helps Dexter, and possibly supervises Deb)
Rudy: Beta NF
Arthur Mitchell: LSE

Masuka's intern, Louis, could possibly be LII? Hard to type him, he's obviously going to be an important character next season.

For the latest season, Travis Marshall could be a psycho ESI, and Professor Gellar an EIE.

[JWC3]

The TV show Dexter which is about a genius serial killer who kills serial killers (for the most part). There's a thread about this but it's way old so I decided to start a new one since we have way more information to go on now than they did in '07.

I'm most interested in Dexter's type but feel free to type the whole show if you want.

I think there are obvious Ti values in Dexter in the form of his 'rules' for how, when, and who he kills. It's also fairly obvious that these rules are very important to him and generally he seems to get very confused and emotional when he breaks them. His world stops making sense to him without his rules essentially. The old thread seemed to type him predominantly as LII and I think that makes a lot of sense.

[Gilly]

LSI

His "code" is made of personally tailored maxims to guide his behavior and perpetuate his survival, not philosophical or sociological treatises. His blatantly EIE sister Deb is his dual, she sheds the light of vulnerability and Fe and genuineness that his work is laid out to perpetuate; the theme of the story is essentially Dexter creating a safe world for Deb, or at least people like her: innocent in spirit, driven to do good, incorruptible, whereas he is the opposite of all of these. She is the only one who can bring things into perspective for him; her existence justifies his (and, ironically, vice versa). She is his dual.

Rita was his super ego, EII. Everything that he thought he should have; every word she spoke was what he knew was right but his very being rebelled against. Stability, peace, trust...all things counter to his nature which he thought he should aspire to, because he assumes that since he is evil, the opposite of what he wants must be right. And for fooling himself, he is held responsible for her death, if not by the law then by his own conscience and, symbolically, in the eyes of Astor.

Trinity, LSE, was his contrary, appearing to be like Dexter on the surface, but conducting his life in much the opposite fashion.

[JWC3]

LSI

His "code" is made of personally tailored maxims to guide his behavior and perpetuate his survival, not philosophical or sociological treatises. His blatantly EIE sister Deb is his dual, she sheds the light of vulnerability and Fe and genuineness that his work is laid out to perpetuate; the theme of the story is essentially Dexter creating a safe world for Deb, or at least people like her: innocent in spirit, driven to do good, incorruptible, whereas he is the opposite of all of these. She is the only one who can bring things into perspective for him; her existence justifies his (and, ironically, vice versa). She is his dual.

Rita was his super ego, EII. Everything that he thought he should have; every word she spoke was what he knew was right but his very being rebelled against. Stability, peace, trust...all things counter to his nature which he thought he should aspire to, because he assumes that since he is evil, the opposite of what he wants must be right. And for fooling himself, he is held responsible for her death, if not by the law then by his own conscience and, symbolically, in the eyes of Astor.

Trinity, LSE, was his contrary, appearing to be like Dexter on the surface, but conducting his life in much the opposite fashion.

This all makes a lot of sense. I really like trinity as LSE. What do you think of Doakes?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I could see Deb as my mirror.

I really like how cunty the cunts are on the show. It's very realistic and there are so many people in the real world that are like that.

[JWC3]

I could see Deb as my mirror.

I really like how cunty the cunts are on the show. It's very realistic and there are so many people in the real world that are like that.

lol Deb is so unassuming until like the second season she's in. You have no idea what a bitch she is until she's a super bitch, I guess EIE could make sense lol

[Olduvai]

lol Deb is so unassuming until like the second season she's in. You have no idea what a bitch she is until she's a super bitch, I guess EIE could make sense lol

I think Deb is Ti-SLE.

[suedehead]

Dexter: LSI
Debra: Fe-EIE
Rudy: Fe-IEI
Rita: EII
Angel: IEE or Fe-SEI
Harry: Ti-LSI
Lila: EIE>IEE
Doakes: Te-LSE
Lundy: Ti-LxI
Masuka: Ti-ILE
Laguerta: Fi-ego

[suedehead]

Quinn: SLE
Quinn's C.I: Judicious, Ethical
Miguel Prado: Si-ESE
Trinity; LSE
Liddy: Beta ST
Jordan Chase: Gamma NT
Lumen: Delta ST or Se-ESI (?)

Mike Anderson: Te-LxE
Travis: ESI
Gellar: Ni-EIE


Isaak Sirko: Fe-EIE
Isaak's bodyguard: Ti-LSI
Victor Baskov: SLE
George Novikov: Beta ST
Hanna McKay: EIE

[darya]

Deb is kinda unusual EIE, probably because she's 6w7.

[ashlesha]

Finally watching this show... Didnt read much of this thread bcuz I don't want spoilers, just skimmed the typing lists and don't see any major points of disagreement w the general consensus except lila seemed ep temperament to me??? And I'm not sure if Sle is good for Quinn, he seems too skilled with ethics, but I don't have a good alternative. Fi-EII >> SEI for Rita. I'm towards the end of season 5. I wanna marry Debra Morgan.

[hellohellohello]

Might have to revisit this show soon

The whole "Code of Harry" thing can be seen as Fi in one of the Accepting positions, so ESI, EII, LII, LSI, LIE, LSE, EIE, or ESE.

I'd say he's a Logical type vs. Ethical, so that narrows it down to LII, LSI, LIE, or LSE.

Sensory > Intuitive seems right, so LSI or LSE.

I'd say he's Introverted so LSI fits.