Cross-types

[Rocky]

The consequences are enormous. Cross type holds so many keys to so many mysteries in history, it's baffling. And the deeper you explore the concept, the more comes brilliantly, penultimately to light. Do you think such a profound, consequential theory would make it out of a psychoanalytic school? I'd like to see it tried.

As for cross-dominant J/P, how about this. I think you know that most of the time, most people try to solve a problem with only one hemispere of their brain. If it is true that the right brain is the more Perceiving one, and the left brain is the more Judging one, AND some people are actually crossed between their J and P traits, then wouldn't you think that the cross-dominant types are actually just people who tend to use both sides of their brain, simultaneuously, without having to pick one over the other? At least most of the time? This would lead to a lot of cross traits, such as an NiTe type (Einstein) showing a lot of heavy Ne and Ti as well.

If it is possible for traits to be crossed at the perception/judgement level, then the door is open for them to be crossed at other levels, also. (E with I, S with N, T with F) In particular, the cross between T and F is possible, and this would entail an ability to notice the logical consequences of emotionally-oriented action, and the emotional consequences of logically-based action. "Either way I go, someone is going to get hurt", "You're damned if you do, damned if you don't". These are statements that people who solidly prefer either T or F, but not both, don't make. The logical conclusion is always better than the emotional one, and vice versa; that's how most people think. But this select subgroup, if it exists, doesn't see either option as better than the other in their subjective experience. So they are more likely to consciously choose the choices that benefit them. Instant gratification is a way of life for them, whatever their other traits may be. Over time, "instant gratification" as a motivator tends to draw these individuals away from the rest psychologically. They act deviantly both socially and as a way of thought. We would recognize this behavior as inline with many DSVM disorders, particular antisocial-personality disorder, psychopathy, and even psychosis.

So are you implying that a crossed-T/F person holds NO judgment whatsoever? Or rather, no NET judgment? So I would expect "instant gratification" to result from a choice depending on complete self-absorbed benefit, i.e. this person is 100% self-centered and makes all decisions based on self-centered thinking, somewhat like a preoperational child?

... continue...

[Cone]

How convenient, Rocky...

[Ms. Kensington]

hmm, where were these quotes taken from?

interesting that this was even brought up. I'd like to read the threads

[Rocky]

hmm, where were these quotes taken from?

interesting that this was even brought up. I'd like to read the threads

http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...2d47b746b08b8c (really out of place)

And here's the cross-dominant test:

http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?te...82897915119820

[tcaudilllg]

good violinists are supposed to have good control/communication between their l & r hemispheres. i'd say that applies to good musicians period.

if you guys ever figure this one out, let me know. i often find myself going for the middle between two extremes or not making a decision at all. tcaudillig's bit on this sounds a lot like things i've thought of before (i.e. i am a pre-operational child.) (;

So they are more likely to consciously choose the choices that benefit them. Instant gratification is a way of life for them, whatever their other traits may be. Over time, "instant gratification" as a motivator tends to draw these individuals away from the rest psychologically. They act deviantly both socially and as a way of thought. We would recognize this behavior as inline with many DSVM disorders, particular antisocial-personality disorder, psychopathy, and even psychosis.

i'm having to bite my tongue here because it's as if you're saying if you don't submit to an ultimatum ("choose x or y" fuck ethics/fuck logic.) then you're just going to consciously make the choice that's the most beneficial to you.

if anything like this happens, i'd say it would happen in a more extreme situation and subconsciously (like a survival mechanism. don't hold me to this i'm not the neuro expert.)

indecisive or taking your time analyzing something doesn't mean "asshole."

i do think this is where "slow workers"/erratic workers come from though.

Now that's an insight I haven't had before: " i often find myself going for the middle between two extremes or not making a decision at all." I've know more than a few people, implied, who bear a strong physical resemblance to you. Now I don't mean to imply that you yourself are erratic or "unbalanced" in your behavior, but these people definitely were.

You remember that "runaway bride" woman who the media were interested in a while back? You strongly resemble her in your facial expressions. Your eyes have this, unfocused quality, like there is something "not there" that I am accustomed to seeing in people. A chaotic sense.

My stepfather is an ESxP. He's led a troubled life: he came from an abusive household that ingrained in him a hatred of authority of any kind, even for a better end. That rebelliousness landed him in the pen for the better part of 20 years. We've had two physical conflicts. I avoid him.

There is something in his eyes that is wild and beastial. Something wholly unnatural. It may be that his mind has been twisted beyond repair by the cocain he was addicted to; but others have recovered without the same damage. Even in his childhood, however, a sense of rage can be discerned in his face. It's kind of like that seen in the face of Saddam Hussein's early photos... but let's not go there just yet.

Arguing in favor of neither feeling nor thinking... I don't have that trait, so I can't discern what the experience must be like. Can you explain this experience further, implied?

I hope I haven't upset you.

[Cone]

With the rate you're going, tcaul, you'll have the whole forum typed as some combination of cross-dominant types.

[tcaudilllg]

Not really. Cone, you're an excellent example of an INTP, there's no question about that.

But if cross-types exist, then the basic 16 are only a fraction of the entire type potential.

[tcaudilllg]

Here's a question that's been on my mind for a while: who are the ENTxs? What do they look like? What are their passions? How do you identify them from ENTPs and ENTJs?

[Zeia]

So wait, rocky that test, I got INTG. Does that mean I'm split on the J and P trait? My life tends to show parts of each, my room is messy, but certain things are characterized perfectly. And I tend to be goofy when I'm acting extroverted but reserved when I'm tired otherwise. But I show plenty of J traits as well - (All the little ways of testing J and P usually come out J) I spend time on theories, and I feel dismissed if someone says they dont understand a word of what I'm saying which puts me into basic repression on topics I choose with that person.

[tcaudilllg]

Well I wrote the test, so I don't want to put Rocky on the spot over my mistakes. What I tried to do with the test is to evade the possibility of "remembering with advantages"; that is, re-evaluating one's own actions long after they have already transpired, and interpreting the motivation for them in light of the present personality, not the former one. Considering that users age 40-60 are scoring the highest on the test on average (which means they are scoring cross traits, because the cross trait score is '3' for each question), they aren't remembering their childhood experiences very accurately. There are simply too many people scoring cross traits on that test, and cross-traits simply aren't that common.

If you haven't yet passed into the second archetypical phase (e.g., you're under 23), then you qualify as a child under the standards of the test, so answer the questions with what you feel about yourself *now*. If you're older, you should stop and think back to who you are minus all of your personal evolution. Then you'll remember what your childhood/adolescent state was accurately. Now if you are over 23 and you have not passed into the second archetypical stage, and you are of a temperament that is neither introverted nor extroverted (sometimes you're E, sometimes you're I) then choose the third answer on the first question, because you qualify for the extroverted/introverted crosstrait of "megalomania". (mis-identification of the subject with the object relative to extroverts and introvert types) In a megalomaniac (and I need to ask you to disregard the negative stigma attatched to the term in this instance; there is no negative stigma implied) the extroverted and introverted traits act as attitudes, not functions, because the megalomaniacal trait is capable of both in equal measure. (neither extroversion nor introversion holds dominance) Jung refers to this trait as "exhaultation of the ego." In any type, ego exhaultation is possible; but it is only temporary. In a megalomaniac ego exhaultation is maintained. Ego exhaultation has a negative quality in "normal" extrovert/introvert types, because it is destined to be reciprocated by the unconscious. Reciprocation of the ego is not necessarily apparent in megalomaniacal types.

Zeia, which do you find yourself aiming for (if anything) in your activities: getting it done; the experience; simply doing them? A genius would simply perform their activities and not ascribe any meaning to them, save in how they effect other people. Judges and perceivers are primarily engaging in activities on behalf of satisfying their own decision-making processes. A judge wants to "get it done"; a perceiver wants to "explore the possibilities" until they hit a wall. (then they look for a way around the wall, but that may not have anything to do with the activity.